I'm sorry, but what are u thinking?

[MrScarface]

I decided to rent this to kill time before NCAA comes out. I'm a PC Madden player who plays NCAA on the PS2 last year, and decided to go xbox LIVE this year. To kill time and try out XBOX live...rented 2k4 to give a more in-depth trial. After a few days....OH gawd.........
This game (2k4) has nice presentation, pretty good graphics, decent DB AI. However, it is god-awful in the running game. First game against the CPU.....7.0 avg. 154 yards on All-pro. Didn't have to throw the ball. The running animation and transitions are HORRID. The horrible transitions lead to another problem online.....bad angles. The defenders take horrible angles, especially on kicks and punts. I saw 4 return TDs because the opponent knew how to fake the the CPU controlled players. Don't get me started on the tap tap to speed burst....lol. What is this, track and field? You actually think this rivals Madden in game play? Madden has its problems....but come on guys. Madden is fluid...the game play is CHOPPY in this game. The Shoulder charge is an absolute joke. Forget about a one on one tackle against someone who knows how to time this correctly. I thought breaking tackles was a problem in Madden...well ESPN takes it to a whole new level. Granted, somethings would be taken care in time with the able to counter somethings opponents were doing. This game is a good alternative to Madden.....but it is nowhere near the same level in GAMEPLAY...on the whole. Do like the way the CB and Safties step in front of some passes for picks. I will play for a few more days for the hell of it...I will get better ( I always do....Im an VERY GOOD Madden player).

Maybe....u can explain to me how my biased opinion affected my attitude towards the game. I was ready to reserve the new one at $20. I MAY rent it at some point......after playing a good 20 games of 2k4....MAYBE.

[bkrich83]

All I can say is everyone's mileage may vary. Can't play it like you play Madden. Otherwise I am not going down this road again.

I like both games.

[jordan0386]

go look at actual nfl statistics, then go play 2k4

2k4 has more plays, more animations, more presentation elements, better graphics, better field sounds...and you say its no where close

look again

[bkrich83]

One and only warning for this thread. Anyone that turns this in to a flamefest will be gone until at least after the upcoming Super Bowl, if not forever.

[BrianFifaFan]

You need to go over to ESPN videogames and read the producer interviews over at the site. Every concern you have has been addressed. I'm also a PC Madden player; well I play it for a month or two then it holds my Coke can. Watch the videos and read; then see if you want to preorder it. I have. In the end; no one is trying to "convert" you. If you want the old, stale other game; have a ball. (just kidding)

By the way, I loved the old Track and Field video game; especially the hurdles and the hammer throw. It ate a ton of my quarters......

[seanmac]

Quote:

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MrScarface said:
I decided to rent this to kill time before NCAA comes out. I'm a PC Madden player who plays NCAA on the PS2 last year, and decided to go xbox LIVE this year. To kill time and try out XBOX live...rented 2k4 to give a more in-depth trial. After a few days....OH gawd.........
This game (2k4) has nice presentation, pretty good graphics, decent DB AI. However, it is god-awful in the running game. First game against the CPU.....7.0 avg. 154 yards on All-pro. Didn't have to throw the ball. The running animation and transitions are HORRID. The horrible transitions lead to another problem online.....bad angles. The defenders take horrible angles, especially on kicks and punts. I saw 4 return TDs because the opponent knew how to fake the the CPU controlled players. Don't get me started on the tap tap to speed burst....lol. What is this, track and field? You actually think this rivals Madden in game play? Madden has its problems....but come on guys. Madden is fluid...the game play is CHOPPY in this game. The Shoulder charge is an absolute joke. Forget about a one on one tackle against someone who knows how to time this correctly. I thought breaking tackles was a problem in Madden...well ESPN takes it to a whole new level. Granted, somethings would be taken care in time with the able to counter somethings opponents were doing. This game is a good alternative to Madden.....but it is nowhere near the same level in GAMEPLAY...on the whole. Do like the way the CB and Safties step in front of some passes for picks. I will play for a few more days for the hell of it...I will get better ( I always do....Im an VERY GOOD Madden player).

Maybe....u can explain to me how my biased opinion affected my attitude towards the game. I was ready to reserve the new one at $20. I MAY rent it at some point......after playing a good 20 games of 2k4....MAYBE.

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The short answer is that your mileage may vary. The long answer is that while I don't doubt that you are trying to be objective, when you play only one game it naturally predisposes you as to what to look for in another game. Let's look at your complaints-

1) The running game is too easy. No question, the running game is a problem in 2K4. That makes it different from Madden. Top Madden players will almost always pass on every play from a four or five wideout set. You can go an entire tournament without seeing a hundred yard game. In ESPN, it's rare that you run into a good player who doesn't lean heavily on the ground game. The running game does need to be toned down for next year, but the good news is that the blocking schemes work very well, making every run in the book a viable option. The other good thing is that the game forces you to gameplan the run. Most Madden players, particularly those who spend most of their time playing the computer, aren't going to be prepared for that. I expect the running game to be back in line with 2K3, which had an excellent running game.

2) The running game looks clunky and has awkward transitions. I don't disagree that Madden looks a little better in the player movement department, but this has very little relevance when it comes to gameplay (and in any event, horrid is not the word I would use). In terms of how this translates to control, I don't feel like there is anything I can do in ESPN that I can't do in Madden or vice versa.

3) Bad angles. No doubt. This is the biggest problem in ESPN, and unfortunately I haven't seen anything in the videos that makes me think this will be fixed. I'm not sure that's the only reason for the kickoff problems- I also think that special teams players aren't given special team specific ratings and so you just have a bunch of junk out on the field unless you manually sub everyone out. Madden is much better in this regard.

4) Too many broken tackles. Yes and no. What is nice about ESPN is that it does model the fact that the first defender rarely takes down a good back. You need to play total defense, hitting the back with one player and quickly switching to another defender to come in and finish the back off. In ESPN it's probably weighted a little too heavily towards the runner, but Madden is weighted too heavily towards the defender. Again, it's a question of what you are predisposed to be forgiving of.

5) The gameplay in Madden is better. Sure, if you are predisposed to disregard the flaws in the Madden engine and not the ESPN engine. Personally, the twenty yard dropback is the single biggest gameplay flaw in video football today. Madden has it in spades, ESPN has it not at all. By allowing a twenty yard dropback that buys 6-7 seconds in the pocket, it completely destroys any need for a) a running game or b) a short to intermediate passing game. If someone tries that garbage in ESPN, they're going to end up getting sacked or intercepted a lot.

Basically, if you started off as an ESPN player and suddenly switched to Madden, your jaw would drop the first time you ran up against someone who ran Jake Delhomme straight back thirty yards, then chucked a perfect strike way downfield. It would be infinitely more offensive than running animations. But it's all about where you are coming from.

Keep at ESPN, give it the full week and see if you can't start spotting the many things that ESPN does well.

[BrianFifaFan]

That's a excellent post. That's about the most fair assessment that I've seen.

[Moegames]

Alot of people have this same claim when they go try ESPN - its simply because its an entirely diffrent game then Madden and they are so USE to madden play. I think ESPN is closer to the real deal then madden.

Also my madden die hard friends..when they all finally tried ESPN they said it felt weird or strange but believe it or not..each of them are die hard ESPN fans now after a bit of time.lol Believe me when i say this....my friends and I were all die hard madden players..we are all in our late 20's / early 30's and know the game of football well but we like what ESPN is doing better then what Madden is doing now days "overall".

Give it time dude and dont judge ESPN off last years..this years edition is gonna be MUCH more robust.