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Erratic · 07-29-2004, 02:49 PM

hopefully you test it out and see, what i am talking about...

I would imagine it wouldn't be difficult to fix and there might be a play stat which fixed this problem.

lordsin · 07-29-2004, 04:00 PM

I know exactly what you are talking about, the only difference is I don't think it is broken. I want my guys to be watching the QB, that is what they should be doing. If someone is throwing the ball in the open area behind you, move your guy to that position.

I just got playing another game online at home (took a long lunch). I played someone who was using the Broncos and refused to run the ball after the first drive. He had a 6-0 record before I played him, now stands 6-1 after getting beat 28-7 with a quit at the end of the 3rd Quarter. Ask him if the DB AI sucks (I used the Jags BTW).

Erratic · 07-29-2004, 04:14 PM

lol your ignoring things now...

In order to play zone defense you have to get into your zone and then cover it.

The players aren't getting to their zones qiuck enough.

I cant put it any other way. Its very simple, and undortunatly its true.

You can continue to ignore it or talk about how you beat people who run the ball online, but none of that has any bearing on the speed at which the players get to their zones.

EDIT: You can move all the players into their spots, becasue they will just move back...

lordsin · 07-29-2004, 05:40 PM

We just have a difference in opinion...I think they are getting there when they should. Your AI guys COULD turn their back on the QB and sprint to the spot, but why would they? They are supposed to be looking in the backfield and watching the QB. Do I wish that they matched up at the line of scrimmage like they do in NCAA 2005? Yes, and I have been asking for that since last year. It would help to disguise coverages. Do I want 4 guys attacking the ball before it has left the QB's hand like happens in NCAA 2005? No.

I can't stress this enough, if the play doesn't work, or your opponent is finding the weak spot, just call a different play. The play will stop slants, it won't stop streaks. If you want to call the play and stop the slot reciever running the streak, you will have to control the linebacker, force him to stop reading where the play is going, and run to the spot where you think the ball is going. Or I guess they could give the LB's super jumping abilities, but someone else already did that last year.

If the players were not reading the play, someone would bitch that they "knew" it was a pass play. Or all running backs would be breaking the line and gaining 6 yds a pop. The defenders are doing what they are supposed to, you are just calling a play that won't stop theirs.

I'll let you have the last word if you like...good debate.

grunt · 07-29-2004, 05:49 PM

Quote:

lordsin said:
We just have a difference in opinion...I think they are getting there when they should. Your AI guys COULD turn their back on the QB and sprint to the spot, but why would they? They are supposed to be looking in the backfield and watching the QB. Do I wish that they matched up at the line of scrimmage like they do in NCAA 2005? Yes, and I have been asking for that since last year. It would help to disguise coverages. Do I want 4 guys attacking the ball before it has left the QB's hand like happens in NCAA 2005? No.

I can't stress this enough, if the play doesn't work, or your opponent is finding the weak spot, just call a different play. The play will stop slants, it won't stop streaks. If you want to call the play and stop the slot reciever running the streak, you will have to control the linebacker, force him to stop reading where the play is going, and run to the spot where you think the ball is going. Or I guess they could give the LB's super jumping abilities, but someone else already did that last year.

If the players were not reading the play, someone would bitch that they "knew" it was a pass play. Or all running backs would be breaking the line and gaining 6 yds a pop. The defenders are doing what they are supposed to, you are just calling a play that won't stop theirs.

I'll let you have the last word if you like...good debate.

Good stuff on both sides but I agree with sin. I love the db ai, its not perfect but its the best all around db ai I played.

Erratic · 07-29-2004, 06:00 PM

heh i didn't know we were debating, hmm. Uh i still beleive there is a problem. I mean there is a 9 page post about DB AI, so i dont belive im in the minority by much.

You say pick a different play, but i'll continue to insist it doesn't matter.

For example, put a 3 wr all running fly's against prevent defense. Thats the correct match up. Put the LB's in man or zone which ever you prefer it doens't matter.

Now when you hike it, you will see all your WR run right past the deffenders if they are playing man and run right past the middle zone if you chose zone.

Now, we have just eliminated nearly half the defenders becasue of speed. Now you have your guys running flys against 3 DB's in deep zone and some tailing backs who were just burnt.

More often then not, your WR will pull it down.

Heck i have see Amani Toomer pull it down on double coverage like he had glue on his hands, somtimes the DB's dont jump, they just stare at the sky like superman is up there or somthing, sometimes they run foward and make a loop and jump well after the ball was caught, sometimes they put they arm up next to where the ball is in the air and the ball goes right into the WR hands. All this happens on legend with the Giants, against various teams, the Pats, Ravens, Eagles, real life and cpu, vip and no vip.

I am amazed that some people refuse to accept the fact there is a problem with DB ai. I think it has a huge part to do with speed/agressivness/and consitancy ratings.

ESPN went from run heavy to pass heavy in a year, but some people want to pretend everything is fine, and all that matters is play calling.

Klocker · 07-29-2004, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Erratic said:
...some people want to pretend everything is fine, and all that matters is play calling.

All that matters to me is having FUN with the GAME, and so long as I'm doing that I do not need to analyze it to death.

You're taking the joy out of a simple pleasure.

Kick back relax and take it all in. The good and the bad, as there is more good than bad, trust me.

If it ruins the game for you than I'm sorry but even the "9 page thread" is mostly 6 people arguing "yes it is, not it isn't".

It isn't 400 people chiming in saying it sucks.

No offense. Enjoy!

07-29-2004, 02:49 PM	#25
Erratic Pro OVR: 6 Join Date: Mar 2004	Re: Possible DB AI Fix hopefully you test it out and see, what i am talking about... I would imagine it wouldn't be difficult to fix and there might be a play stat which fixed this problem.

07-29-2004, 04:00 PM	#26
lordsin Banned OVR: 2 Join Date: Sep 2003	Re: Possible DB AI Fix I know exactly what you are talking about, the only difference is I don't think it is broken. I want my guys to be watching the QB, that is what they should be doing. If someone is throwing the ball in the open area behind you, move your guy to that position. I just got playing another game online at home (took a long lunch). I played someone who was using the Broncos and refused to run the ball after the first drive. He had a 6-0 record before I played him, now stands 6-1 after getting beat 28-7 with a quit at the end of the 3rd Quarter. Ask him if the DB AI sucks (I used the Jags BTW).

07-29-2004, 04:14 PM	#27
Erratic Pro OVR: 6 Join Date: Mar 2004	Re: Possible DB AI Fix lol your ignoring things now... In order to play zone defense you have to get into your zone and then cover it. The players aren't getting to their zones qiuck enough. I cant put it any other way. Its very simple, and undortunatly its true. You can continue to ignore it or talk about how you beat people who run the ball online, but none of that has any bearing on the speed at which the players get to their zones. EDIT: You can move all the players into their spots, becasue they will just move back...

07-29-2004, 05:40 PM	#28
lordsin Banned OVR: 2 Join Date: Sep 2003	Re: Possible DB AI Fix We just have a difference in opinion...I think they are getting there when they should. Your AI guys COULD turn their back on the QB and sprint to the spot, but why would they? They are supposed to be looking in the backfield and watching the QB. Do I wish that they matched up at the line of scrimmage like they do in NCAA 2005? Yes, and I have been asking for that since last year. It would help to disguise coverages. Do I want 4 guys attacking the ball before it has left the QB's hand like happens in NCAA 2005? No. I can't stress this enough, if the play doesn't work, or your opponent is finding the weak spot, just call a different play. The play will stop slants, it won't stop streaks. If you want to call the play and stop the slot reciever running the streak, you will have to control the linebacker, force him to stop reading where the play is going, and run to the spot where you think the ball is going. Or I guess they could give the LB's super jumping abilities, but someone else already did that last year. If the players were not reading the play, someone would bitch that they "knew" it was a pass play. Or all running backs would be breaking the line and gaining 6 yds a pop. The defenders are doing what they are supposed to, you are just calling a play that won't stop theirs. I'll let you have the last word if you like...good debate.

07-29-2004, 05:49 PM	#29
grunt Banned OVR: 32 Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 9,530 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Possible DB AI Fix Quote: *lordsin said:* We just have a difference in opinion...I think they are getting there when they should. Your AI guys COULD turn their back on the QB and sprint to the spot, but why would they? They are supposed to be looking in the backfield and watching the QB. Do I wish that they matched up at the line of scrimmage like they do in NCAA 2005? Yes, and I have been asking for that since last year. It would help to disguise coverages. Do I want 4 guys attacking the ball before it has left the QB's hand like happens in NCAA 2005? No. I can't stress this enough, if the play doesn't work, or your opponent is finding the weak spot, just call a different play. The play will stop slants, it won't stop streaks. If you want to call the play and stop the slot reciever running the streak, you will have to control the linebacker, force him to stop reading where the play is going, and run to the spot where you think the ball is going. Or I guess they could give the LB's super jumping abilities, but someone else already did that last year. If the players were not reading the play, someone would bitch that they "knew" it was a pass play. Or all running backs would be breaking the line and gaining 6 yds a pop. The defenders are doing what they are supposed to, you are just calling a play that won't stop theirs. I'll let you have the last word if you like...good debate. Good stuff on both sides but I agree with sin. I love the db ai, its not perfect but its the best all around db ai I played.

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07-29-2004, 06:00 PM	#30
Erratic Pro OVR: 6 Join Date: Mar 2004	Re: Possible DB AI Fix heh i didn't know we were debating, hmm. Uh i still beleive there is a problem. I mean there is a 9 page post about DB AI, so i dont belive im in the minority by much. You say pick a different play, but i'll continue to insist it doesn't matter. For example, put a 3 wr all running fly's against prevent defense. Thats the correct match up. Put the LB's in man or zone which ever you prefer it doens't matter. Now when you hike it, you will see all your WR run right past the deffenders if they are playing man and run right past the middle zone if you chose zone. Now, we have just eliminated nearly half the defenders becasue of speed. Now you have your guys running flys against 3 DB's in deep zone and some tailing backs who were just burnt. More often then not, your WR will pull it down. Heck i have see Amani Toomer pull it down on double coverage like he had glue on his hands, somtimes the DB's dont jump, they just stare at the sky like superman is up there or somthing, sometimes they run foward and make a loop and jump well after the ball was caught, sometimes they put they arm up next to where the ball is in the air and the ball goes right into the WR hands. All this happens on legend with the Giants, against various teams, the Pats, Ravens, Eagles, real life and cpu, vip and no vip. I am amazed that some people refuse to accept the fact there is a problem with DB ai. I think it has a huge part to do with speed/agressivness/and consitancy ratings. ESPN went from run heavy to pass heavy in a year, but some people want to pretend everything is fine, and all that matters is play calling.

07-29-2004, 08:18 PM	#31
Klocker MVP OVR: 16 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ	Re: Possible DB AI Fix Quote: *Erratic said:* ...some people want to pretend everything is fine, and all that matters is play calling. All that matters to me is having FUN with the GAME, and so long as I'm doing that I do not need to analyze it to death. You're taking the joy out of a simple pleasure. Kick back relax and take it all in. The good and the bad, as there is more good than bad, trust me. If it ruins the game for you than I'm sorry but even the "9 page thread" is mostly 6 people arguing "yes it is, not it isn't". It isn't 400 people chiming in saying it sucks. No offense. Enjoy!

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Possible DB AI Fix