Madden Wishlist's ESPN 2K5 Review

[spankdatazz22]

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spin16 said:

I've fixed the multiple hot routes thing. I did play around quite a bit in the menuing system though, and never saw that. It's strange that it's turned off by default, or that that option even exists for that matter. Why would you want this turned off?

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I prefer for multiple hot routes to be off simply because I don't think it's realistic to be able to completely change a play at the LoS without audibling. It places more emphasis on playcalling. Being able to flip the direction of a run is nice in Madden, but I don't find it realistic - for the time I played Madden online last year, I had a ton of success flipping the direction a split second before hiking the ball. Sometimes in ESPN I'd like to have that option, but I like the fact that I'm forced to be cognizant of what play I call, rather than just completely changing it at a whim when I feel like it.

Overall I think you TRIED to be fair, but like most of those on EA's early mailing list, don't seem to want to accept this is a different game. The collision detection in ESPN alone is noteworthy for giving a more authentic feel to playing a real football game. To tell people ESPN isn't worth your money, EVEN AT $20, seems pretty ridiculous.

We don't have Madden 2005, so we really can't comment on it. Can only sit back while those that get invited to EA headquarters or on the EA preferred mailing list try to give "objective" reviews. But I don't see how one could be clearly better than the other when essentially from a gameplay standpoint, Madden has simply discovered the novel concept of defense.

Again, you're entitled to your opinion - but to say the game isn't worth $20 after playing Madden 2005... have to TOTALLY disagree with you there. You're basically saying Madden is so great that it's not worth purchasing ESPN. Guess we won't know whether that's the case for another 2 weeks to a month. But considering I know Madden lacks real player interaction, I find that statement of yours hard to believe.

[HMcCoy]

LOL @ this thread.

Spin, I actually thought the review was very good, it gave in-depth explanations on the cool things ESPN offers. The ONLY problem I have is that you listed 7-8 things that ESPN does better than Madden, but then said that the gameplay was FAR BETTER in Madden simply based on one single solitary thing....the feel.

As an obvious Madden hardcore, you seem to be used to "tugboat" physics. Madden has always implemented their change of directions, not by making the player model slow himself down with "baby-steps" and then plant the outside foot to change like in real life(watch any footage, it happens every time), but more like a Super-Mario player model. The running animation rarely changes, it just makes the model run in quicksand per se while he's changing directions. Thats how they represent a person not being able to change directions witout a sacrifice in speed.

I've always HATED the fact that the 2K series never had something similar. In the past you could always change directions on a dime, w/ no slowdown. But this year Spin, they have absolutely, positively LOCKED down PRECISELY how a 225lb man's momentum, inertia and even body movements should be affected when he changes directions on the run.

It's flawless.

It's also a different "feel", and will take anyone used to the "tugboat" effect, WEEKS to get accustomed to. I worked in video-game retail and still have a few friends in the business, and we all agree...If you ask a Madden fan exactly why he thinks Madden PLAYS better than ESPN, the answer is always, without FAIL: "Uhhhh....it just...I don't know, it just plays better" They never have anything that you can put a finger on. ESPN slaughters Madden in blocking schemes, catching animations, momentum physics, tackling(by a MILE), implementation of a real "pocket", D-line play, and juke system. Let me note the only other flaw in your artical..the juke sytem is 10 BILLION x's deeper than Maddens, you just can't juke a split-second before contact ala Madden. In reality a juke is done WAAAY before the defender is right on top of the carrier, so again this is just a matter of not whats more realistic, but simply what your USED to.

Anyway, I thought your views were pretty good, and its all just your opinions, which we all have. It just seems a little strange that in the gameplay section, you listed several things that ESPN does better, then cited that Madden was much better just because it feels differently. It also seems very mysterious, that after ALL the ESPN adavntages you listed you threw in that Madden is so clearly better without really saying why. The fact that the D-Pad feels funny makes Madden FAR better? Smells like last-minute, I-dont-wanna'-lose-my-EA-community leader-status-pandering. Most of us are FULLY aware of EA's restrictions, so you lose alot of credibility when you say you love so many things about a game...but then say its FAR inferior to Madden. Just doesn't make sense.

Welcome to the new generation where humans do not move like large sea vessels.

[spankdatazz22]

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MMan said:
but how can you review a damn game if you haven't even tried everything?

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I agree. ESPN added a TON of things this year; guess it's hard for some to wrap their minds around the concept of a game going all out to make itself better. Another thing that wasn't mentioned was online leagues. I have no idea how they're working, and have only played one online game. I guess EA is going to "surprise" us next week by saying they intended to do leagues all along.

While your review was lengthy and I give you credit for trying to be unbiased, I don't think you succeeded. When you say Madden is so good at $50 that ESPN at $20 isn't worth it... Well, guess we'll see. But that's a really strong statement.

[Fresh Tendrils]

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I was very high on Madden compared to past couple years until I seen that game video from damon. I posted in the Madden forum what I liked and disliked about it. It's obvious you want to take some of the former Maddenites that liked ESPN this year to buy Madden again.

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I saw gameplay videos on ESPN when they were talking to John, and I thought they used the models from NFL Street, everybody looked like they were on steroids!

[gopadres]

I hate it when people use the phrase "At the end of the day." He did it twice. It's so overused it makes you just sound stupid when you say it.

[sportsgeist]

This is where this guy lost me. I also stop reading after this too.

"When playing against the CPU, it's very easy to have success running the same play over and over in ESPN. Just to test this, I ran the same exact play about 5 or 6 times, every time getting about 10-15 yards, and moved the ball 70-80 yards or so for a TD, throwing to the same player every time. The A.I. never seemed to figure it out. Madden surely does better than this. This was on ESPN's All-Pro difficulty, but based on how the sliders move in ESPN when you change difficulty level, it doesn't seem as though players get smarter at higher difficulty, they just get better at blocking, tackling, catching, throwing, etc. In other words, I don't expect this to be any harder on a higher difficulty level."

If you have a very good team going against a bad team this can be done no doubt like it should. He uses the Green Bay Packers but didn't mention the team he was playing. I also rather he'd went and played on the "Legend" setting instead of assuming it wasn't that much better. Other than that part it seemed fair to 2K5 up to that point. He did have a point about multiple Hot routes needing to be the default setting. VC has their reasons for doing things and people just don't know what they are.

[bball_1523]

If you weren't biased, you would not say espn isn't worth buying when Madden is a better game. You could've at least said, that it's the persons choice to buy ESPN 2k5, or say that if there's a choice to buy either game, buy madden. But to say to not buy espn because madden is better is very biased. ESPN is 20 bucks, why not? I can understand if you don't have the money, or if you are a madden fanboy.

Other than that, I think you did a good review of both games, but you didn't mention a lot of the Madden 2004 flaws being fixed. Such as cpu AI momentum bugs, where the computer gets the whole momentum towards end of the games while trying to comeback (not really a full comeback code, but partially). One time I was playing and the computer was playing as if they were a god. I tried to comeback on the Bucs with my 49ers and I'm serious, I tapped that pass button to lob the ball to my receiver, but the ball was either thrown short or the LB has Jordan-esque jumpining abilities. Very UNREALISTIC.

There were other examples or momentum flaws. Such as when me and my friend were playing and getting whooped by the bucs, warren sapp recovered our fumble, and ran it down 50 yards for the touchdown faster than a running back. I couldn't even catch up to him with my LB's. How realistic!!!!!!! lol

You know I won't be buying Madden 2005 if it has these so-called minor momentum bugs that turn out to be major letdowns. The franchise may be way better than ESPN's, but until Madden fixes their cpu AI and momentum bugs, it won't be much a different from 2004.

As for ESPN, I hate the trade logic and it ruins the franchise mode completely. Also the herky-jerky motions do ruin the game slightly, but only slightly (madden does flow a lot better and I am used to the Madden engine). There are tiny bugs in espn, but nothing major so far. I'm still getting used to the game since I come from a madden background, so I can't say much about any major letdowns in espn 2k5, but I know what I want fixed for Madden 2005 and I explained it in this post above.

[kondo]

Hes right you could throw slants over the middle the hole drive and you will complete 95% of them .And i also see passing anything over the middle is way to easy . Im playing on legend with db's slider maxed out .