Merits of Madden passing over ESPN?

[icicle22]

Let me start by saying I am being very fair about this. I love ESPN and have been playing it exclusively for the last 2 versions. I was just sick of the Madden games. But my curiosity got the best of me this year and I went and rented Madden. And I have to say it isn't too bad. We all know the obvious stuff: Graphics aren't as good, presentation is weak etc.

But I am talking strictly about the mechanics of the passing game. I am finding some elements in Madden much more enjoyable. In fact it is one element in particular. The run after catch issue. I find that receivers get open.....I mean really open more often in Madden making for a more realistic passing game.

example: I am the qb and I have a receiver lined up in the slot left. His pattern is to go 10 yards and slant across the middle. I drop back, roll a little to my right and I see the play developing......my receiver has just made his cut and the DB loses a step. Now my receiver is a good 3-4 yards ahead of his man and streaking across the middle. I throw the pass and he catches it in stride and I take control of him and start to go up field. I have 5-6 yards running before I even get to the first defensive back. I can now juke or spin or whatever in the open field. I see this type of play all the time in the real NFL.

This doesn't work everytime because sometimes the LB's drop back into coverage, the DB will sometime stay with the man or I throw a bad pass or something. It isn't a "money play". And the same logic applies to many other patterns......especially my backs coming out of the backfield as a dump off receiver. If I drop back to pass and nobody is open I can dump it off to my HB who is just releasing from a block. Often he will have 5-6 yards running before anyone even gets to him. Adding to this is that he catches and turns in one big fluent animation that doesn't break the timing of the play.

Now with ESPN I don't seem to be able to do the same things. It almost feels like sometimes the sweet looking animations are too long and lock my players up. Especially screen passes and what not. But most importantly is I get no separation. Just about every pass I catch I am getting creamed! I mean hammered. And Maximum opassing doesn't help much. It just seems that the field is overcrowded or the defensive AI is just to quick to react to the pass! I don;t know what it is but it is killing the football experience for me. and I have set the sliders as low as they go on coverage and it doesn't seem to help.

And please refrain from flaming on me! I actually still love ESPN and prefer it to Madden. But I find that when I watch a real NFL game receivers can and do get wide open every once and a while. In Madden I see that and when I hit that guy I get big gains. In ESPN I rarely if ever see one of my receivers get "that" open. I pretty much have given up on the YAC stats.

Anyone have any ideas how I can improve this part of ESPN? Or is this just part of the engine?

Sorry for the long rant.

[bugblast]

Quote: Originally Posted by icicle22

Let me start by saying I am being very fair about this. I love ESPN and have been playing it exclusively for the last 2 versions. I was just sick of the Madden games. But my curiosity got the best of me this year and I went and rented Madden. And I have to say it isn't too bad. We all know the obvious stuff: Graphics aren't as good, presentation is weak etc. But I am talking strictly about the mechanics of the passing game. I am finding some elements in Madden much more enjoyable. In fact it is one element in particular. The run after catch issue. I find that receivers get open.....I mean really open more often in Madden making for a more realistic passing game. example: I am the qb and I have a receiver lined up in the slot left. His pattern is to go 10 yards and slant across the middle. I drop back, roll a little to my right and I see the play developing......my receiver has just made his cut and the DB loses a step. Now my receiver is a good 3-4 yards ahead of his man and streaking across the middle. I throw the pass and he catches it in stride and I take control of him and start to go up field. I have 5-6 yards running before I even get to the first defensive back. I can now juke or spin or whatever in the open field. I see this type of play all the time in the real NFL. This doesn't work everytime because sometimes the LB's drop back into coverage, the DB will sometime stay with the man or I throw a bad pass or something. It isn't a "money play". And the same logic applies to many other patterns......especially my backs coming out of the backfield as a dump off receiver. If I drop back to pass and nobody is open I can dump it off to my HB who is just releasing from a block. Often he will have 5-6 yards running before anyone even gets to him. Adding to this is that he catches and turns in one big fluent animation that doesn't break the timing of the play. Now with ESPN I don't seem to be able to do the same things. It almost feels like sometimes the sweet looking animations are too long and lock my players up. Especially screen passes and what not. But most importantly is I get no separation. Just about every pass I catch I am getting creamed! I mean hammered. And Maximum opassing doesn't help much. It just seems that the field is overcrowded or the defensive AI is just to quick to react to the pass! I don;t know what it is but it is killing the football experience for me. and I have set the sliders as low as they go on coverage and it doesn't seem to help. And please refrain from flaming on me! I actually still love ESPN and prefer it to Madden. But I find that when I watch a real NFL game receivers can and do get wide open every once and a while. In Madden I see that and when I hit that guy I get big gains. In ESPN I rarely if ever see one of my receivers get "that" open. I pretty much have given up on the YAC stats. Anyone have any ideas how I can improve this part of ESPN? Or is this just part of the engine? Sorry for the long rant.

Hrm, I see plenty of receivers wide open to be honest. And good lord, dont get me started on the superhuman ai of Madden, I am sorry but Deangelo Hall simply cant run 20 yards in 1 second and jump 10 feet in the air to knock a ball down.

[newsguy]

Hey, while Madden does have a better passing game, the way you're describing it is not typical at all. Now, if you're playing on Pro, then yes, you will get 3-4 steps on a DB. I play on all pro and this is never the case. It's very hard to find the open man, and many times you MUST resort to the screen pass to get any passing yards. One thing I like that espn does well is the fade pass. I like that if you time the pass correctly, you can lob it and put it in your receiver's hands. In Madden if I can complete one fade a game I consider myself blessed. The DB's are brutal, and it comes down to pre-snap adjustment rather than threading the needle (which is nearly impossible).

[bugblast]

Quote: Originally Posted by newsguy

Hey, while Madden does have a better passing game, the way you're describing it is not typical at all. Now, if you're playing on Pro, then yes, you will get 3-4 steps on a DB. I play on all pro and this is never the case. It's very hard to find the open man, and many times you MUST resort to the screen pass to get any passing yards. One thing I like that espn does well is the fade pass. I like that if you time the pass correctly, you can lob it and put it in your receiver's hands. In Madden if I can complete one fade a game I consider myself blessed. The DB's are brutal, and it comes down to pre-snap adjustment rather than threading the needle (which is nearly impossible).

I honestly disagree. ESPN has a far better passing game IMO. When I would roll out on Madden, it felt (and looked) like my qb was on a cart, and not actually running. I just like the way ESPN feels better, and Max Passing is great as well.

[whosgotcha]

While it does happen in ESPN it doesn't occur with the same regularity as Madden. It is an aspect of football that is captured better in Madden.

[spankdatazz22]

Good post. I agree w/you somewhat, especially about the screen passes. VC needs to work to make the animations overall more fluid, but there are times on screen passes where your RB will make an awkward directional change animation instead of freely flowing in the direction you want him to. I'd also like to see VC make the plays more consistent for people that like taking control of DBs or WRs - sometimes they'll do animations that are inappropriate for the situation.

The WR/DB separation I find to be more true-to-life in ESPN than in Madden, particularly because of what Tiburon did to make the pass defense better in Madden this year. It's really difficult to put touch on passes because it seems all defenders have the ability to make 48" vertical leaps to defend passes when running at full speed. Players have to be REALLY open to hit the pass more often than not. This is the first year I've felt ESPN's passing game actually surpasses Madden, simply because it's easier to make different types of passes (and the QB mechanics are much improved) - something I just don't see in Madden this year.

[bkrich83]

Remember in the NFL the window in which a WR is open is tiny. Meaning that seperation is very difficult in the NFL, which is why YAC is so hard to come by.

ESPN does get this right. Now I occasionally see guys wide open in ESPN, it's usually due to a blown coverage (Which is programmed in to the game), or someone flat out beating someone.

I don't know, there are things about both games passing games that I like and dislike.

[TheBandit]

I think it's more of a run after the catch issue than it is a passing issue. I'd like to see receivers catch passes in stride and keep running rather than constantly getting tackled from behind. This is very noitceable on screen plays where the running back sometimes gets caught in an catching animation before heading upfield. Fortunately this seems to be alleviated if you wait longer to take control of the receiver.