Dumb DB AI fixed and QB spy!!!!!!!

[Rickster101]

Quote: Originally Posted by HMcCoy

It definately explains why the DB AI plays smarter. It seems as if VC programmed the game using this "baseline" level. All the players' animations and reactions are based on that base level of ability. Then, the players abilities are increased or decreased from there, depending on their ratings. Those differences are implemented by what end up looking like AI gaffes. With the DB AI EQ'd, all of the defenders have similar attributes, meaning that the AI gaffes needed to represent a poor defenders mistakes are no longer neccesary. Interesting

To be honest I think guys like ourselves should be looked up by "VC" because what were talking about here is the re-programming via edits of the base attributes to run smooth and more efficient.

The proof is all over this site and now it all makes sense, edits,sliders, attributes all of it figured out by a bunch of guys who really care about making the ganme play better and for me it does.

Holla Back ya'll

[HMcCoy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rickster101

No I wouldn't say that it was just a little misleading to call them equal when in fact they more add and subtract from actaul ratings in order to balance out and appear to be equal, when in fact they are not. I've never used it because it does what Shawn Lee says they do and to me thats not equal thats handi capping to even the playing field as in bowling or sports simular in nature thats to give the oponent an edge by giving him credit to compensate and make up for a lack of something they don't have in this case its a Football game and the opponet is lacking "Talent". Why would I want to give him something they don't have that being "Talent" I'd rather play another team more competive then tweak a slider like "equal" because its not. Holla Back ya'll

Remember Rick, they didn't call it "Equal" but "EQ". Making the ratings closer is alot better than making them completely equal...so IMO, this disclosure is good news.

Like you, I wouldn't ever use it, but at the same time...more options are never a bad thing.

[HMcCoy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rickster101

To be honest I think guys like ourselves should be looked up by "VC" because what were talking about here is the re-programming via edits of the base attributes to run smooth and more efficient. The proof is all over this site and now it all makes sense, edits,sliders, attributes all of it figured out by a bunch of guys who really care about making the ganme play better and for me it does. Holla Back ya'll

I agree...but just think, we're tweaking the finished product, without the worry of deadlines and financial issues, and for me this is STILL maddening. Imagine how frustrating tweaking a buggy as hell beta version must have been, with the neccesity of beating Madden to market always looming... I've discovered a ton of things in my research, and I swear I respect the crap outta' VC's coders, and I'd bet that their testing isn't as laid back as we get to be here..Hell, I've been playing hookie (no pun intended) w/ NHL2K for the past 3 nights...

[Rickster101]

Quote: Originally Posted by HMcCoy

I agree...but just think, we're tweaking the finished product, without the worry of deadlines and financial issues, and for me this is STILL maddening. Imagine how frustrating tweaking a buggy as hell beta version must have been, with the neccesity of beating Madden to market always looming... I've discovered a ton of things in my research, and I swear I respect the crap outta' VC's coders, and I'd bet that their testing isn't as laid back as we get to be here..Hell, I've been playing hookie (no pun intended) w/ NHL2K for the past 3 nights...

True, true and well said but to quote something that someone told me in reference to saying and wording things....."They seem at times to be somewhat uhmm..."conveluded" in what they say and actually mean".

So once you get thru the murk and mire of it all you begin to see the light and on that note all I can say is things are a whole lot better now with NFL2K5 in my house, now the real Season begins and I'm ready.

Holla Back ya'll

[baa7]

Quote: Originally Posted by HMcCoy

It definately explains why the DB AI plays smarter. It seems as if VC programmed the game using this "baseline" level. All the players' animations and reactions are based on that base level of ability. Then, the players abilities are increased or decreased from there, depending on their ratings. Those differences are implemented by what end up looking like AI gaffes. With the DB AI EQ'd, all of the defenders have similar attributes, meaning that the AI gaffes needed to represent a poor defenders mistakes are no longer neccesary. Interesting

There’s more to it IMO. Without EQ, certain teams sometimes played “juiced” – Patriots and Vikings, to name two. Again, for the record, all IMO. It doesn’t happen every game. But suddenly one game, the dud team will be fumbling and the super dudes will be intercepting. Their WR’s and HB’s will become speed demons on certain plays, especially when they need a first down or something. It happens a lot in CPU vs CPU games. I’ve had it happen to me in a couple of User vs CPU games. (And please people, no lame “you suck” comments. Yes, I suck but that has nothing to do with it, and many people have already complained about the juiced AI this year.)

I think the changes from last year, where I never detected any sort of AI cheat, maybe have to do with the VIP system. Or maybe it was just decided to give people the thrill of steamrolling over another team, or being steamrolled themselves. Whatever, what I’ve seen is EQ appears to make teams play “normal”. It removes the cheat advantage some teams have in some games, ensuring all games are played on a level playing field. I don’t think of it as vanilla-ing out the teams, but rather, making sure the super teams never go into AI steamroll mode.

VC never thoroughly explained EQ, never thoroughly explained actual rating effectiveness such as Aggression (all they said was it makes players dance in the endzone!) – so why would they spill the whole beans when it came a possible AI cheat system?

I’m staying with EQ on for now, because whenever I play with it off, a game or two later I see one of those scripted games that makes me shut the Xbox off. Want the ratings to mean something with EQ on, and have the CPU Patriots to play to their ability? Crank up the CPU Coverage and Pursuit sliders to 40 and drop Human to 0.

[Hostile_17]

Quote: Originally Posted by baa7

VC never thoroughly explained EQ, never thoroughly explained actual rating effectiveness such as Aggression (all they said was it makes players dance in the endzone!) – so why would they spill the whole beans when it came a possible AI cheat system?

Exactly. I also remember last year when there was a debate over whether CPU sliders affected H2H play (one faction even claimed that the only thing that changed about the game from Pro to Legend in H2H play was the kicking meter!). Sides were chosen and soon afterward people began "name-dropping" various VC prgrammers, each claiming they had the definitve word from the horse' mouth. One guy even quoted a programmer who had nothing to do with difficulty sliders!

I totally am a believer in the 'juiced' and momentum arguments about this game. It was quite noticable last year and is equally so this year. The argument has further been made that "overall" ratings don't always seem to jibe with the actual talent on a team's offensive or defensve roster.

Yet 'juiced' teams like the Pats, Ravens and Eagles play above even their own attributes (mediocre CBs, anyone?). This isn't some figment of our imagination - thousands have played online and have witnessed it in game after game.

Quote: Originally Posted by baa7

I’m staying with EQ on for now, because whenever I play with it off, a game or two later I see one of those scripted games that makes me shut the Xbox off. Want the ratings to mean something with EQ on, and have the CPU Patriots to play to their ability? Crank up the CPU Coverage and Pursuit sliders to 40 and drop Human to 0.

I agree and am still waiting for an exhaustive and definitve word from VC, not from someone who claims to know VC and personallly spoke with VC and believes the person from VC explained everything fully, etc. etc.

I believe if we have stumbled upon a core algorythm in the gameplay, VC might be disinclined to impart a thorough explanation. Such a line of argument might lead to critics saying the game was not meant to be played on default settings, but rather with EQ ON in head-to-head and that the game is flawed in this regard.

[Kanobi]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hostile_17

I also remember last year when there was a debate over whether CPU sliders affected H2H play (one faction even claimed that the only thing that changed about the game from Pro to Legend in H2H play was the kicking meter!). Sides were chosen and soon afterward people began "name-dropping" various VC prgrammers, each claiming they had the definitve word from the horse' mouth. One guy even quoted a programmer who had nothing to do with difficulty sliders!

Quote: Originally Posted by Hostile_17

still waiting for an exhaustive and definitve word from VC, not from someone who claims to know VC and personallly spoke with VC and believes the person from VC explained everything fully, etc. etc.

Quote:

29. What does "Performance EQ" really do? If you have performance EQ enabled all player attributes get adjusted so there is less difference between a good value and a bad value. What this amounts to is poor players performing better and all stars performing worse. All stars will still perform better than poor players but not by as much as with EQ disabled. So the Patriots will still be a better team than the Browns, but with EQ enabled the Browns at least have a chance of winning.

source: http://www.espnvideogames.com/commun...ic.php?t=32234

That is basically the same thing LbzRule posted earlier from Shawn Lee ( who is without question the The Top guy when it comes everything involved with NFL2k's gameplay). I'm Just posting it for you and others who were doubting the legitimacy of Lbz's posting of Lee's explanation (which btw is a bit more in-depth IMO). Now, whether its a good enough explanation or not is up to you. Personally, I don't see a reason to get all bent out of shape about it considering it's optional to use EQ or not.

[baa7]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hostile_17

I totally am a believer in the 'juiced' and momentum arguments about this game. The argument has further been made that "overall" ratings don't always seem to jibe with the actual talent on a team's offensive or defensve roster. Yet 'juiced' teams like the Pats, Ravens and Eagles play above even their own attributes (mediocre CBs, anyone?). This isn't some figment of our imagination - thousands have played online and have witnessed it in game after game.

Hostile_17, I’ve appreciated your spreading the EQ word, etc. I think it was one of your posts that I saw a few days ago that got me switching EQ on. I completely agree: 85 speed for a juiced HB turns into 95 speed. A juiced team’s QB throws to his receiver. The other team’s QB tosses it directly into the arms of LB’s and DB’s. So it’s a combination of programming the juiced team to play better than their ratings, and the other team to play like high schoolers – fumbles fall from their hands like leaves from a tree in November…. October where I live.

You’re (I’m) treading on “bash this guy” territory, and I hope that doesn’t happen. Yet I too feel the truth isn’t going to be revealed if it’s, as you say a core programming secret. Heck, VC hasn’t even come out to respond to or address the many “known” issues and questionable aspects of this year’s game. That tells me they’re really not too interested in letting people know what’s really going on.

My take: they programmed some super-juice/VIP system into the game this year; it doesn’t work very well because the whole concept was rushed like the rest of this GREAT GAME (everyone catch that?) was rushed; nevertheless they decided to go ahead and distribute the half-finished product for business reasons… which I hope doesn’t backfire on them. I’ll still buy next year’s game, but I wonder how many people won’t.