ugggggggggh, i'm so sick of cheesers.

[janus3]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmarks2001

I don't think this is cheese...I think this is stupid play. I say bring it on. Players take a ratings hit when they play out of position, so it's accounted for, let them do it. Calling the same play over and over...makes it that much easier to stop. Sure they'll burn you a few times, but after you stuff it a couple, they'll change their game. Although I do acknowledge that consistently completing deep balls to Randy Moss and TO in triple coverage even burns me up.Audibling every play isn't cheese...it's good football. If the defense keeps lining up in formations that are too aggressive or conservative, I'm going to audible and take what they give me.

agreed, i'm all for audibling. it's like a chess game, he audibles, you audible. (if you choose to do so) if you see something you like, by all means go for it against my d. if you're successful, i now know a weakness in my d i need to adjust and vice versa. if you set up in a bear package when i set up in quads, you're damn right i'm sending everyone deep. if i see a lb blitzing better believe i'm gonna but a wr in the soft zone just to see if he might be open. like i said, it's a chess game, high risk, high reward. you just gotta know when to call 'em.

[inkcil]

Scrambling, audibling and no-huddle is cheesing. Throwing deep is cheesing? I thought cheese was cheating or money plays.

I guess Payton Manning is a cheeser, as well as Mike Martz, not to mention Randy Moss and Mike Vick, and so was Jim Kelly and the Bills with the K-Gun offense.

On one hand, I know it's difficult to play against someone who pulls out all the "tricks," but some tricks are just part of the game. Some teams go for it on 4th and 1 from the opponent's 45 in the 2nd quarter. You can't tell someone how to play. Everyone doesn't "run-run-pass" or "run-pass-run."

Gee whiz, next thing you know, sending a blitz will be considered cheese.

[ace23jp]

Quote: Originally Posted by inkcil

Scrambling, audibling and no-huddle is cheesing. Throwing deep is cheesing? I thought cheese was cheating or money plays. I guess Payton Manning is a cheeser, as well as Mike Martz, not to mention Randy Moss and Mike Vick, and so was Jim Kelly and the Bills with the K-Gun offense. On one hand, I know it's difficult to play against someone who pulls out all the "tricks," but some tricks are just part of the game. Some teams go for it on 4th and 1 from the opponent's 45 in the 2nd quarter. You can't tell someone how to play. Everyone doesn't "run-run-pass" or "run-pass-run." Gee whiz, next thing you know, sending a blitz will be considered cheese.

I think you are missing the point entirely. Chesse is exploiting something in the game that benefits you and has nothing to do with real skills.

Scrambling can be used as cheese because the defense doesnt react like they should..Some QBS just cant scramble in real life like on this game.

Hurry up offense, If the offense got as tired as the Defense it wouldnt be an issue. Some people Hurry up for the wrong reasons.

Look at it like this.. Exploit a flaw in MY game. Not in THE game.

[julfpenet]

Quote: Originally Posted by inkcil

Gee whiz, next thing you know, sending a blitz will be considered cheese.

I think the point the original poster was trying to make is that a cheeser is someone who exploits the “games” weakness and not his opponent.

In the real NFL players/coaches are always adapting to what’s happening on the field. They learn from their mistakes, as well as, their successes and attempt to exploit their opponent’s weaknesses whenever possible. This happens on every play, series, and game.

Unfortunately, virtual football games are significantly limited in their ability to adapt to on field play. Ultimately it’s just one’s and zero’s and the virtual players are limited to instructions that are provided by the programmers. It’s basically impossible to code for every possible situation and over time we (the players) consciously/subconsciously learn what works against the other 20/21 cpu controlled players that are on the field.

Sure, play calling and proper execution do play a part, but ultimately we are at the mercy of the coded instructions. Example: I can’t count the times I’ve seen CB in man coverage attempt to “jump” a route in an effort to knock/intercept the ball. This usually leads to a big play for the other team and yes, it happens in the real NFL as well, but not to the extent that is does in the virtual world. Trust me, if a CB in the NFL played as poorly as the best virtual CB’s…he be flipping burgers for a living.

[janus3]

Quote: Originally Posted by inkcil

Scrambling, audibling and no-huddle is cheesing. Throwing deep is cheesing? I thought cheese was cheating or money plays. I guess Payton Manning is a cheeser, as well as Mike Martz, not to mention Randy Moss and Mike Vick, and so was Jim Kelly and the Bills with the K-Gun offense. On one hand, I know it's difficult to play against someone who pulls out all the "tricks," but some tricks are just part of the game. Some teams go for it on 4th and 1 from the opponent's 45 in the 2nd quarter. You can't tell someone how to play. Everyone doesn't "run-run-pass" or "run-pass-run." Gee whiz, next thing you know, sending a blitz will be considered cheese.

totally missed the point buddy. go deep all you want. what i'm saying is when i'm playing someone and they throw it to moss/owens/harrison 90% of teh time and i play one man press coverage one man deep another man to man and a 4th in zone AND HE STILL CATCHES THE BALL, that's when i get ticked. don't know what kind of football you watch but the football i watch, no qb in their rigth mind would throw it in triple coverage or more unless it was a hail mary. i never said i had anything against the long ball.

[inkcil]

So ace and julf,

I relly haven't missed the point at all.

How do guys propose solving that problem then? Don't throw deep b/c the CB fof your opponent might jump the route? What about when jumps the route and picks it off?

And about scrambling QBs...should we just not scramble? Recently someone was here complaining about Kyle Boeller's scrambling ability in the game, calling it cheese that he can scramble. Then I watch him scramble for a TD in real life this past weekend.

I do understand the cheeser argument, I'm just not that sympathetic to it, b/c, IMO, it usually is subject to a fundemental breakdown somewhere in its logic. To me, cheese exists, but not as definded by the thread starter.

By the way, this game has so many "weaknesses" that's almost impossible to say something good you did is 100% your skill or something bad that happens is 100% your fault. The CB jumping the route is the perfect example. If you're the user whose CB jumped the route and gets a pick, that is a CPU weakness that you are loving at that moment, but the user controlling the offense is cursing the game's engine. Now if when your CB jumos the route he missed the pick and the WR runs for a big play, then the user on offense is happy and the defensive user is cursing the game engine and calling the completion "cheese."

It's quite comical.

[janus3]

Quote: Originally Posted by inkcil

So ace and julf, I relly haven't missed the point at all. How do guys propose solving that problem then? Don't throw deep b/c the CB fof your opponent might jump the route? What about when jumps the route and picks it off? And about scrambling QBs...should we just not scramble? Recently someone was here complaining about Kyle Boeller's scrambling ability in the game, calling it cheese that he can scramble. Then I watch him scramble for a TD in real life this past weekend. I do understand the cheeser argument, I'm just not that sympathetic to it, b/c, IMO, it usually is subject to a fundemental breakdown somewhere in its logic. To me, cheese exists, but not as definded by the thread starter. By the way, this game has so many "weaknesses" that's almost impossible to say something good you did is 100% your skill or something bad that happens is 100% your fault. The CB jumping the route is the perfect example. If you're the user whose CB jumped the route and gets a pick, that is a CPU weakness that you are loving at that moment, but the user controlling the offense is cursing the game's engine. Now if when your CB jumos the route he missed the pick and the WR runs for a big play, then the user on offense is happy and the defensive user is cursing the game engine and calling the completion "cheese." It's quite comical.

ok. when i play a game, i want it to be as close to a real game i'm watching. as i mentioned in the other post. throwing to a player in triple coverage and him catching it roughly 90-95% does not equal realistic. as for the scrambling, like i said, i'm all for scrambling but unless the play is designed to be a qb scramble or if the orginal play breaks down or if the qb just sees a beautiful hole in the line he should not be scrambling. scrambling only comes i'd say 80-90 percent of the time as a last resort. so then why do some people have their qb rush as much, if not more than their rb? to be not realistic. and like i said, flag routes. go straight then cut to sideline and thrown, always a catch...why? now that is definatly cheesing. i honestly have found no logical way to prevent this unless i play dime/zone which only allows the player to run the ball or, yep, scramble. like i said also, don't know what kind of football you watch, but if you see this happening in the games you watch, you should try watching the NFL.

[julfpenet]

Quote: Originally Posted by inkcil

So ace and julf, I relly haven't missed the point at all.

Ok

Quote: Originally Posted by inkcil

How do guys propose solving that problem then?

I don't. Over the years I've learned not to take the game seriously. I can accept the games "flaws" because it's pretty damn fun to play and I never play online unless I personally know who I'm playing with.

I think the real frustration that people have with cheeser's and plug pullers is that they feel like they've completely wasted their time.

Quote: Originally Posted by inkcil

By the way, this game has so many "weaknesses" that's almost impossible to say something good you did is 100% your skill or something bad that happens is 100% your fault.

Well, since the outcome of every play is base upon an algorithm you could make the argument that this is no perceivable skill in success or value. This maybe a bad example, but some people are really good at bingo. Does that make them skilled?

Quote: Originally Posted by inkcil

It's quite comical.

Of course it is. It's all just entertainment.