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Issues/Concerns with the OSCD Roster

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Old 07-13-2006, 01:40 AM   #9
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Re: Issues/Concerns with the OSCD Roster

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Originally Posted by Rickster101
Thanx Daflyboy I personally like your reply and can only agree with it for the most part, if you (JayoD) have a different prespective on how the ratings should be applied then by all means apply them as your personel point of view and adjust the team or players as you deem necessary based on your own analysis, we've done a great job no doubt but we can't please everyones wants or needs we only provide the rosters based on what we've researched and judged to be true then we post them and let you the fan do the rest.

No offense but this topic has already been addressed and its been awhile since anyones really had anything to say on the matter my best estimate tells me that some very bright fans have already figured this out and find it easy to applie their own rating based on ours so its a simply a matter of just applying what you know to be accurate because you probably know your teams player personel better then we do and thats ok because in the long run as you know the NFL is full of surprises just look at the players who've found success starting out as unknows and have contributed to their teams.

Names like Brady, Parker, Gado and Rothlisberger come to mind sometimes you just can't tell and as in the NFL some blue chip players rise to the top of the class and stand out above the rest in the video game representation you have the option to make adjustments and applie a "Do Over" if you're not satisfied with what we've presented its as simply as that bro but we try to get them right not perfect and we realize many may not agree we're comfrotable with that and have no real problems with it.

Thanx for you post JayoD and we do understand what you're implying but after so many different versions its almost a given on what to expect from us following "Standards" we've laid out a looong time ago in keeping this series going at this point we do try to maintain a certain roster Integrity and plan on keeping it up as long as theres a fan interest in the 2K series thats why I keep on doing what I do...ya feelin' me?





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Ya I totally get what you're saying...on all accounts. Like I said before...my own personal regret is that I found out about this project way too late.
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Old 07-13-2006, 01:51 AM   #10
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Re: Issues/Concerns with the OSCD Roster

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Originally Posted by mactraxx
.......Really sorry to have "offended" you...Im sorry.[/quote]

I'm just saying...you took the time to look thru that long *** post...and yet you dismiss it without substantially backing anything up.
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Old 07-13-2006, 01:57 AM   #11
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Re: Issues/Concerns with the OSCD Roster

Well the season actually hasn't started yet so we both might be in for a few surprises bro so keep in touch anythings possible and guys with an overall understanding and knowledge of the game are always welcome to chime in and offer observations as you have, its a good thing knowing someone is paying attention to whats going on around here and you've done just that so again thanx for letting me know at least that this project is worth the time and effort being put into it.



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Old 07-13-2006, 03:11 AM   #12
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Re: Issues/Concerns with the OSCD Roster

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Originally Posted by Rickster101
Well the season actually hasn't started yet so we both might be in for a few surprises bro so keep in touch anythings possible and guys with an overall understanding and knowledge of the game are always welcome to chime in and offer observations as you have, its a good thing knowing someone is paying attention to whats going on around here and you've done just that so again thanx for letting me know at least that this project is worth the time and effort being put into it.



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Exactly bro!! I mean...I know my initial idea is flawed because there aren't nearly that many people with the same commitment to realism and unbiased-ness to do it. You guys did a phemonemal job but there are just little nitpicks by the diehard fans who are wanting the most accurate rosters possible...

And yeah...your time and effort are greatly appreciated by everyone who peeks into the thread. The reason that don't take the time to provide some input is because they are too busy enjoying all the work you guys have put into it!
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Old 07-13-2006, 12:14 PM   #13
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Re: Issues/Concerns with the OSCD Roster

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Originally Posted by JayoD
Exactly bro!! I mean...I know my initial idea is flawed because there aren't nearly that many people with the same commitment to realism and unbiased-ness to do it. You guys did a phemonemal job but there are just little nitpicks by the diehard fans who are wanting the most accurate rosters possible...

And yeah...your time and effort are greatly appreciated by everyone who peeks into the thread. The reason that don't take the time to provide some input is because they are too busy enjoying all the work you guys have put into it!
Actually, I feel that if there was an editor for each team, it would hurt the roster. I worked extensively on the community roster and I can tell you that it was tough enough to keep the teams balanced with just 6 or 7 guys working on that project. I remember going to check the roster before passing it on to the next person and I would see a couple players, especially the rookies, that had NOT gone according to that formula we had all initially agreed on. Players who's ratings were obviously boosted on the hush hush.

Even the most unbiased fan will give their team the benefit of the doubt. As much as I want to believe there is an unbiased fan out there, I would still question you doing your favorite team. You would pad the weaknesses on the roster, i.e. speed up a certain player a little bit because YOU feel he's faster or whatnot.

Classic example would be rookie Devin Hester on the Bears. His speed in near 90, yet people went crazy arguing that it should be 97-100. Meanwhile his 40-time converted to a lower figure in-game, so we went with that.

Same problem with Ferguson on the Jets and Bunkley on the Eagles. I think the way we had it set up was the best; there was no debate as to the ratings as we had agreed on a rubric for everyone to follow. Really, it was just input work, as none of the ~200 rookies in the file were done by what we THOUGHT their ratings should be outside of the players that did not have a NFLDA report. Those players were rated extremely modestly, i.e. Marcus Vick rated in the 50s or 60s.

You can always do the edits to the Chargers on your own, but looking at the roster I feel like we gotthem right actually. I think if anything, they are perfect for a franchise since you could always develop a certain player that broke out in real life through weekly preps, something that I'm always surprised people don't look into. It completely changes the game, and it's a hell of a lot of fun. I have Lions OLB Boss Bailey at FS rated near 90 and I love it, since he was a 78-80 as an OLB. But thats another story.

I appreciate your criticism actually, but I'm gunna have to say that I'd rather stick to our original setup. To be fair, we HAVE been accepting requests to certain player ratings (especially the vets) to be changed. We have accepted all input in that community thread. I remember people complaining about certain players who had breakout years, and we updated their ratings to reflect that when a good argument was posed for the player.
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Old 07-13-2006, 06:27 PM   #14
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Re: Issues/Concerns with the OSCD Roster

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Originally Posted by Flipmo23
Actually, I feel that if there was an editor for each team, it would hurt the roster. I worked extensively on the community roster and I can tell you that it was tough enough to keep the teams balanced with just 6 or 7 guys working on that project. I remember going to check the roster before passing it on to the next person and I would see a couple players, especially the rookies, that had NOT gone according to that formula we had all initially agreed on. Players who's ratings were obviously boosted on the hush hush.
I'm sorry about that...it's sad that people would do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipmo23
Even the most unbiased fan will give their team the benefit of the doubt. As much as I want to believe there is an unbiased fan out there, I would still question you doing your favorite team. You would pad the weaknesses on the roster, i.e. speed up a certain player a little bit because YOU feel he's faster or whatnot.
Well going back to your team balance...that would be the thing. Every team would be a lil' more balanced because they would give players who are mostly unknown to every other fan except their own...more benefit of the doubt...so to speak. I wouldn't say that speeding up a certain player a little bit because I feel he's faster would be padding the weakness. It isn't like I'm taking an attribute that he's horrible at...and making it one of his strengths. If I...as a fan of that team....truly and honestly...feel a person should be a little faster then what you have...then maybe you guys should take that into consideration. I think the best indictment of rating wouldn't be those experts at espn or sports illustrated or what have you...but by going to message boards and seeing all the people's opinion. Guaranteed there are going to be some very knowledgeable fans who would tell you, "yeah this guy actually isn't so great in coverage or whatever." For all those homers that overrate their teams...there are fans who are probably their team's own worst critics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipmo23
You can always do the edits to the Chargers on your own, but looking at the roster I feel like we got them right actually. I think if anything, they are perfect for a franchise since you could always develop a certain player that broke out in real life through weekly preps, something that I'm always surprised people don't look into. It completely changes the game, and it's a hell of a lot of fun. I have Lions OLB Boss Bailey at FS rated near 90 and I love it, since he was a 78-80 as an OLB. But thats another story.
I would like to disagree...and I'm not saying that you did a lousy job and didn't do your homework but...I have read literally every Chargers related article that's on the internet...and I can tell you that some of the reserves have questionable ratings. Case in point...OLB Shaun Phillips. As a rookie he was a one dimensional player...he can rush the passer and that's it. He's worked on stopping the run better but his main strength and duty so to speak...is getting to the quarterback. The rating literally takes the essence away from him. It's kinda like taking Derrick Brooks of the Bucs...and lowering his coverage attributes. Now Derrick Brooks isn't even Derrick Brooks. Get what I'm saying? Anyways...it's no disrespect to you...I'm just saying that there isn't a great deal of stuff to gather on players who are not superstars...or even starters for that matter. Fans know things like that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipmo23
I appreciate your criticism actually, but I'm gunna have to say that I'd rather stick to our original setup. To be fair, we HAVE been accepting requests to certain player ratings (especially the vets) to be changed. We have accepted all input in that community thread. I remember people complaining about certain players who had breakout years, and we updated their ratings to reflect that when a good argument was posed for the player.
Point me to the community thread and I will be gladly to voice my requests. It doesn't have to be written in stone...but just take it into consideration.

Overall...I just want to make the roster very accurate to the actual league. I appreciate all the hard work that was put into it.
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Old 07-13-2006, 06:55 PM   #15
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Re: Issues/Concerns with the OSCD Roster

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Originally Posted by JayoD
Case in point...an example of an issue I have is the rating for OLB Shaun Phillips. He's not a starter and although he is overshadowed but a more talented OLB in Shawne Merriman...it is known throughout the Chargers Fan Community that Phillips is actually a better pash rusher than Merriman...
I plead ignorance for my roster and not having Phillips rated high. I've never heard of him. But I did find this on both Merriman's and Phillip's stats last year.

Phillips: 15 games played, 7 sacks
Merriman: 15 games played, 10 sacks
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Old 07-13-2006, 07:38 PM   #16
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Re: Issues/Concerns with the OSCD Roster

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Originally Posted by Phil21
I plead ignorance for my roster and not having Phillips rated high. I've never heard of him. But I did find this on both Merriman's and Phillip's stats last year.

Phillips: 15 games played, 7 sacks
Merriman: 15 games played, 10 sacks
See...I don't fault anybody for things like that. It was an article that had a little blurb that stated that the coaching staff feels that Phillips is the best pash rusher on the team. It's things like that...that doesn't maximize the potential of what you all accomplished.

Well anyways...stats are sometimes misleading. Sure Merriman has the better numbers but due to Phillips liability in the run game...he is strictly a situational pass rusher during obvious throwing downs. So the numbers are a lil' askewed.

I say...leave your roster the way it is...but take the time to listen to what fans of the team say...ask them for some substantial evidence for their claim and change it accordingly...but in the very least take it into some consideration. Although you guys have already done that. Damn it...I really wish I would have found out about this a long time ago! :P
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