How do the Player Ratings work???

[LSUTIGERSPHXSUNS]

How do the Player Ratings work???

Larry Allen has a 73 rating in strength, which is lower than some WRs strength.

Also, many linemen have 63 strength rating, and WRs ive seen with 85, so how do the ratings work???

[Gibbz]

I recall wondering that back when I played it. Allen having that low of a strength rating really bugged me.

[LSUTIGERSPHXSUNS]

I really don't get it, QBs like Kyle Boller have higher agility than Ladanian Tomlinson.

Maybe the ratings are based on positions, so a 99 in QB agility is still lower than a 99 in HB agility

[puja21]

Quote:

Maybe the ratings are based on positions

^yes-- it does say in the manual that the ratings are adjusted for position at least for speed. The "physical" ratings, i.e. speed, agility, strength, & jump were derived based on how the players got charted at the NFL combine & their pro days

--the 40 yard dash determined SPD
--bench reps @ 225 lbs determined STR
--20 yd shuttle primarily determined AGL
--vertical leap determined JMP

IIRC, this is from the manual & it was copied into Finn's editor help section

Quote:

Speed: Put simply, its how fast the player runs. Our ratings are based on each player's reported time in the 40 yard dash and is adjusted on a position-by position basis, so don't worry about comparing a QB's rating to that of a WR's Agility: This is how fast a player makes his cuts and changes direction. Our ratings are based on each player's reported time in the 10-, 20-, and 40- yard shuttles. Strength: The name says it all. This is how strong the player is in terms of upper and lower body strength. Reported bench press and squat numbers are used to determine these numbers. Jumping: Yet another self-explanatory name--this attribute determines how high the player can jump and is important in both catching and defending the pass. We looked at vertical jump data to determine these ratings

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I really don't get it, QBs like Kyle Boller have higher agility than Ladanian Tomlinson.

^Despite what I just said, this actually has very little to do w/ them playing different positions. The reason LT's agility is lower than Boller's is because he had a slower 20yd shuttle at the combine. Boller did it in 4.02 & LT did it in 4.21. I don't know why 2KSports chose to use 20-shuttle instead of 3-cone but so be it. Same for reps at 225 (although the manual claims they also used squat I have yet to be able to chart any evidence of that). Thing is that bench reps can be very misleading for OL strength especially because of the way many of those guys are phyiscally built (wide shoulders)-- it doesn't mesh with the bench motion. This is why guys like DeAngelo Williams often put up great bench numbers compared to a huge 6'8 guy that is clearly stronger (6'8 guy dominates the squat & leg press often though). On the other hand, none of us have any idea exactly what strength does in terms of programming to effect gameplay in practical terms... i mean we all have an idea but the actual formulas are proprietary knowledge of the company.

2Ks attribute charts weren't 100% linear & they varied slightly by position but for the most part, you could figure out what a 95 SPD equals in 40 time by reverse engineering the charts using the players' real-life combine times.

The problem with veterans guys like Larry Allen is that their numbers weren't as readily available as young players since they did the combine so long ago. Basically, the older the guy is the less likely they got his combine times. 2K was very good at looking up the numbers if you look at how many they got correct, but obviously they missed on Larry Allen since his bench reps number is listed right on wikipedia for godsakes (it's obviously readily available in the public domain). Personally, I am going to fix Allen's strength having now seen his bench reps was 43 (which translates to 99 STR)

For my own rosters, there was a community project to look up the times for every new player since the game came out (whenever available). I left the veterans' physical attributes at the "out-of-the-box" values initially & I have been updating them (SPD AGL STR JMP) whenever I come across new combine information. If you use the search feature you can find my charts, all the combine times ive posted in a spreadsheet etc.
^I would love to get the attribute project rolling again for charting ALL "remaining players from the default roster" but it's too big for a few people & we only had 3 volunteers last time.. it's also MUCH harder to find times for really old players, so it might be a fruitless effort even with 100 players

Quote:

Also, many linemen have 63 strength rating, and WRs ive seen with 85, so how do the ratings work???

The first part of your question isn't strange at all b/c 63 STR translates to 22 reps of 225 lbs which many lineman don't reach... consider Colts DT Ed Johnson who has started games this year; he only did a measly 10 reps of 225 (this translates to a STR rating of 40). However, I have no idea why Rod Gardner was given an 85 STR rating; when he was a freshman at Clemson, Gardner did 12 reps & in his JR year he improved to 22 reps but to get an 85 he would have to bench 225 33 times! (I don't have his combine #'s but I seriously doubt anyone would improve from 12 to 33 in 4 years).

[LSUTIGERSPHXSUNS]

I just hope that MS sends me a transfer cable so that I can get your rosters.

I wish 2K would just use ratings like Madden so that 99 speed on WRs is the same as 99 speed on a QB.

[puja21]

it's not really a noticable difference-- at least not in the way you'd expect

really QBs have a huge advantage scrambling in this game, & since you'd expect 99 for CB to be faster than a 99 QB, if true that's kind of ideal for the way the gameplay works

[dan77733]

I just want to say one thing puja21.

How can you give Larry Allen a 99 attribute rating for strength based on the 43 reps he did over a decade ago??? Unless he recently did that again, there's no way that I would rate him 99 for strength. After all, he's older and has declined. As a 49ers fan, trust me, I know. Comparing last season to this season is like night and day. Ugh for me being a 49ers fan.

Oh well, I still have the Cowboys. T.O., T.O., T.O.!!!

[thejackal25]

Quote: Originally Posted by dan77733

I just want to say one thing puja21. How can you give Larry Allen a 99 attribute rating for strength based on the 43 reps he did over a decade ago??? Unless he recently did that again, there's no way that I would rate him 99 for strength. After all, he's older and has declined. As a 49ers fan, trust me, I know. Comparing last season to this season is like night and day. Ugh for me being a 49ers fan. Oh well, I still have the Cowboys. T.O., T.O., T.O.!!!

It may not be 43 reps anymore, but at the Pro Bowl last year he still benched more than any other guy there...for which they crowned him the "NFL's strongest man."

He's still strong. If you watch closely it's not that he's being overpowered so much as he's being worn out. I'd definitely raise his strength up, but the guy is pretty much all out of gas in his tank when it comes to Sundays. His stamina needs to be decreased to near nothing. It's so sad to see him with his hands on his hips, completely sucking wind when it's the offense's second drive of the entire game. Plus he's even slower than he used to be. I think if you're worried about this strength increase making him too effective on the game, just lower his stamina, agility, and speed, cuz that's what he's really lost this year.