Rickster101 Slider Recommendations...The Truth!!!

[Rickster101]

Quote: Originally Posted by Del_Liger

Catch - 5 Coverage - 20 ??

Not sure what you mean here but those are two settings I recommended trying out to see there re-actions to one another during gameplay...Catch-5 and Coverage-20, settings may vary depending on what teams and rosters used,also have you seen the chart Daflyboy has posted its really helpful.

I really don't know what you're asking here.




Holla Back y'all
Rickster101

[Bascape666]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rickster101

Not sure what you mean here but those are two settings I recommended trying out to see there re-actions to one another during gameplay...Catch-5 and Coverage-20, settings may vary depending on what teams and rosters used,also have you seen the chart Daflyboy has posted its really helpful. I really don't know what you're asking here. Holla Back y'all Rickster101

Rickster I need your help.
I wanna use the chart of Daflyboys in a HUMAN / CPU games,so for the CPU I set the slider following the chart of Daflyboys and setting to 0 the slider that are not listed,the problem is for the slider for HUMAN team,what do I have to set the slider for the team I control?
I really don't know how to adjust them,can you help me?
For example for my test game 49ers against Colts and I use 49ers,which set of slider I have to use for San Francisco????

[Rickster101]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bascape666

Rickster I need your help. I wanna use the chart of Daflyboys in a HUMAN / CPU games,so for the CPU I set the slider following the chart of Daflyboys and setting to 0 the slider that are not listed,the problem is for the slider for HUMAN team,what do I have to set the slider for the team I control? I really don't know how to adjust them,can you help me? For example for my test game 49ers against Colts and I use 49ers,which set of slider I have to use for San Francisco????

Actually I'm having a difficult time myself following the chart as it has drifted from what I view "Zero" sliders as...whatever he's done they don't follow the logic of the "Zero" slider theory and therefore I don't use it.

Problem is they are not balanced correctly and are abit extreme on some settings and seperating too far from others, it is not necessary to have them set so far apart from one another because it distorts the gameplay and renders them non-effective.

Therefore anything he's done to them is a mixed bag IMO and follow no know theory or logic to adjust them by...sorry but he has lost me in his updates of them and I myself hold to the true "Zero" slider settings,theorys because they work and follow the games intial programming.

My recommendation would be to start at zero or twenty to get on an even playing field and adjust the sliders on an equal base keeping their proximity close to one another so you don't over compensate and disrupt the gameplay balance it not necessary to go past twenty which is ALL Pro anyway in hindsight you only make the game more difficult to play with issues that appear when going into the higher levels of play as I stated before in previous post.

The only real time you want to get into more competative play is when attempting to garnish points used for the crib and earned credits based on your difficulty of play for such achievments or you find the level of CPU play not "Difficult" enough, other then that you really don't need to go there try "Zero" and work up or "ALL PRO" for better gameplay thats balanced,competative and fair adding or subtracting for your skill level of play!!!




Holla Back y'all
Rickster101

[daflyboys]

But that's exactly what I did...... I started with the "zero theory" and adjusted from there. However, you're not playing a human opponent, you're playing artificial intelligence and trying to compensate for what you believe is possible flawed programming. This is why the attribute edits were applied. Once you see over periods of trial and error that certain slider configurations aren't producing the results that you want, then adjustments need to be made.

Take singley, the kicking slider. At zero, over a period of time I would wager that the cpu kicking would fall well below what the NFL average is (if your goal is to attain NFL-like results, which I assume is why we're doing this). This is simply the way the kicking accuracy in kickers is programmed (which was not the case in 2K4). So you make the adjust from zero, which is you base, to what is a desireable effect. This is basically the logic I applied to all sliders as I played more and more games. I may not be completely there with the necessary ranges of the sliders, but I think I'm pretty close.

Hope that helps explain it.

[Rickster101]

Quote: Originally Posted by daflyboys

But that's exactly what I did...... I started with the "zero theory" and adjusted from there. However, you're not playing a human opponent, you're playing artificial intelligence and trying to compensate for what you believe is possible flawed programming. This is why the attribute edits were applied. Once you see over periods of trial and error that certain slider configurations aren't producing the results that you want, then adjustments need to be made. Take singley, the kicking slider. At zero, over a period of time I would wager that the cpu kicking would fall well below what the NFL average is (if your goal is to attain NFL-like results, which I assume is why we're doing this). This is simply the way the kicking accuracy in kickers is programmed (which was not the case in 2K4). So you make the adjust from zero, which is you base, to what is a desireable effect. This is basically the logic I applied to all sliders as I played more and more games. I may not be completely there with the necessary ranges of the sliders, but I think I'm pretty close. Hope that helps explain it.

It does help explain it, however the base for how the gameplay is doing isn't necessarly found in the sliders DFB because of the simple fact that the sliders themselves aren't even needed to play the game.

They're more for cosmetic and other effects that really don't contribute to gameplay on the level we precieve them to for example the pursuit is nothing more then "make up speed" to compensate for a users lack of re-action time or the fatigue slider that does nothing more then keep certain players consistent in the game as in "Tireing" at a slower pace, thats why when lowered the CPU rotates the RBs and other players more realistically because they function based on their actual base attributes.

When a slider is increased the attributes become more inflated and the game appears to play more aggressive in the form of more penalties, a higher degree of injuries and smarter in its antisapation of the users play calling habits and tendencys.

The higher a slider is adjusted the more difficult the gameplay is going to get and distant itself from the original settings the CPU player is based at. Ever see DBs read and re-act to gameplay sequence that seems too over the top and just cut down any chance to see a play sequence look like its suppose to in the form of hitting recievers long before a catch sequence even takes place?

Linebackers that read and re-act like ALL Pro saftys or cornerbacks being more aggresive and assertive then your average pro linebacker in most NFL video games and then add the fact that some of the players were already set with attributes ranging in the 90s as high as 99 for some!!!

Thats why edits are needed to balance players to more realistic numbers that reflect a realistic setting attribute, at a 99 speed setting there just isn't any more you can or should add but because its that high adjusting certain sliders only distorts them in the form of overly aggressive and assertive gameplay.

I don't think the intial programming is all that flawed but attribute it more to the users desire to play the game in a mannor that only makes it play poorly by inducing sliders to over compensate and push the players to perform out of their normal parameters.

Ever play golf or go bowling and use a handi-cap to compensate for short comings by a lesser skilled opponent, well in a video game with these type of sliders you do just that compesate for short comings by the user in its execution and re-action time.

About the only thing you actually get from increasing certain sliders is more over the top gameplay from both the user and cpu in the form of aggression and assertiveness.

Fatigue, you'll get players on the field longer that may be better served in player rotations especially your RBs and offensive linemen once their tanks run dry its time to pull them out for a breather but it won't happen if the slider is adjusted out of balance thus making him a liability and a sure fired canidate for an injury!!!

Pursuit is basically the defenses re-action time and if adjusted too high from the other sliders this makes things appear out of sync and at times over pursue your opponent in the form of missed tackles and poor collision detections not sync up to the overall gameplay.

Tackles, well if I'm correct on this one you want this to give the effect of actually causing things and events to happen on the field in the form of "Hit" points, if you consistently and aggresively make the correct hits on an oppent you'll wear him down and eventually get results in the form of fumbles,fatigue and see him leave the game for a breather because he can and should feel the effects of a good pounding and good collision detections that sync a good hit with tackles that yield results.

Those are just a few examples and also even the offensive linemen get calls for being overly aggresive in the form of holding calls and clips if set correctly.

User games don't play all that differently the sliders just compensate for the users short comings in the read and re-action times which when adjusted at certain levels become more and more cosmetic and aggressive which can be a good thing but with the higher level comes the risk and reward factor thats more in favor of the CPU but the user is the smarter opponent if and by using stategys that the CPU appears to be lacking in its descision process!!!

By "Zero" sliders I understand them as being set at levels that don't influence the gameplay to levels that may conflict with the players already factory set attributes in their normal performance of the game or in their attributes edited to reflect actual players performance, the game really doesn't need sliders that confuse the user in deciding what setting should be where but more in tune to aide the User and compesate for his lack of skill or level of difficuilty in wanting a more competative game.

Thats why there is a level at rookie and up to show you the gameplay through various degrees of difficuilty and in sync with one another so the User can make adjustments that flow with the gameplay and provide a better playing experience along with any edits you influence in them all to work in sync with one another, after the ALL PRO level you the user are incline to experience the game as being more aggresive,assertive and mistake prone not necessarly smarter!!!

Certain sliders should be adjusted to work in proximity with one another and others are pretty much independent of others like the fatigue for example but it has an overall effect on gameplay is IMO is seriously over looked and not given proper credit for its contribution on overall gameplay but these are just my obsevations and experiences dealing with the game some may or may not agree but I feel confident in sharing these obsevations as you'll come to see in from own observations and tests you're currently involved.

Oh about that kicking slider,its something I really haven't gotten a handle on and perhaps never will because it functions on a level of its own and appears to have no real effect on kick or punt returns just effecting the kick meter for the user and perhaps some influence in the kicking game but nothing I can say is an absolute,I have experienced kick and punt returns but not frequent enough to be of any real significance but again I have seen some and I guess you can say its something involving other varables attributed to the games intial programming.

I'm sure you'll figure it out in time because you're very,very close with some of the work you're doing but as for myself I'm pretty much satisfied with my finished product and am willing to assist you if you need with anything within reason bro!!!





Holla Back y'all
Rickster101

[eaglesfan17]

Okay, I wasn't involved in the original "Zero" slider theory but I'm trying to grasp the concept here. Are you saying that you start all of your sliders at 0 and then adjust them slightly based on what you see. Or are you saying that you make the sliders even out (e.g. Hum Coverage - 0, CPU Catch - 40). Sorry if this seems like an idiotic question, but without this premise, I'm sort of lost in this conversation.

[Rickster101]

Quote: Originally Posted by eaglesfan17

Okay, I wasn't involved in the original "Zero" slider theory but I'm trying to grasp the concept here. Are you saying that you start all of your sliders at 0 and then adjust them slightly based on what you see. Or are you saying that you make the sliders even out (e.g. Hum Coverage - 0, CPU Catch - 40). Sorry if this seems like an idiotic question, but without this premise, I'm sort of lost in this conversation.

What I'm saying is you don't necessarly have to induce certain gameplay aspects and astehetics that are already present in the games hardcode programming...it is after all a program written to play Football basically without going into spefics.

I would say yes to starting them at zero (0) and adjusting them slightly based on what you see for astehetics effects and at the same time observe the gameplay and the end result for statictical results.

Strange question but not at all idiotic bro the primise isn't really that elusive the whole idea of using sliders is to increase the degree of difficuilty in ways that may produce a certain theory that to play harder is to play smarter just isn't always true for the CPU.

About the most efficient way to use sliders is at minimal settings and if so increasing them is needed I'd recommend within a close proximity of one another so Coverage-0 and Catch -40 would be somewhat an odd way to look at it, just observe the fatigue slider and its effect on player rotations particularly the RB position to see its effect, notice its roll in the outcome and consequences of certain plays involving personal on the field.

Lots of other stuff and little things like that in gameplay that should be looked at...not seeing enough penalties see what happens when offensive linemen are adjusted up abit to aggressive in pass blocking and you'll yield more penalties being called...well thats enough the rest you can see for youself and you decide...its not that hard!!!








Holla Back y'all
Rickster101

[doc12]

Hey Rickster,
Wanted to add my props to you for your zero sliders set and rosters. I've had some great games with them.
I needed to take a break from Madden 360, since it was driving me crazy (like everyone else) with the lack of features and other bizarre things that others have commented about. I'd really enjoyed the 2k5 NFL game previously, but most of the sliders and older rosters didn't give the realism that I was looking for.
After revisiting the NFL 2K forum here on OS, I checked out your zero sliders and rosters and thought I'd give them a shot. Great feel of the game and your excellent rosters and gameplay of the 2K series made an enjoyable football gaming experience for me again. I'd forgotten how much I had previously appreciated the 2K5 presentation and gameplay from before. Football was back!
Thanks again for "keeping it alive with 2k5" (poetic, huh?). Appreciate your being there and sharing your expertise with us.

By the way, I play user vs. CPU rather than CPU/CPU (Coach mode). Still great games!