Too many change-ups (unrealistic pitching selection)

[benny15]

Hey everyone, just wanted to post about my frustration with AI pitching selection.

I had a game against Ventura for KC and after getting me to swing for a couple CH his pitch confidence was 100% and that's all I saw. I understand I am playing a video game, but MLB the Show has always been a simulation of the sport.

No pitcher, especially Ventura, is going to throw a MLB batter 3 to 4 CH in a row. For the rest of the game the high majority of pitches were CH.

What i'd love to see is pitchers pitching similar to their real life counterparts. I think the pitch confidence and utilization needs to be completely overhauled.

[KBLover]

Re: Too many change-ups (unrealistic pitching selection)

And that was his 4th pitch, which is supposed to influence pitch selection by the CPU pitcher.

Even in a "purely generic" sense, that was too many change-ups. The most frequent user of the change-up last year by anyone with at least 50 innings of work was Francisco Rodriguez, who threw his change 43% of the time, and he operates basically as a 2-pitch pitcher (occasional curve, mostly FB/CH)

Among pitchers qualified for the ERA title last year, John Danks (29%) and Felix Hernandez (28%) threw their change the most and they use all of their pitch types significantly. Trevor Hoffman's best pitch was arguably his change (if I remember right, it made him something of an anomaly...a finesse closer) and he threw it no more than 33% of the time.

That's been a thing in this game for a while - pitch selection can get "out there", even beyond just a game where he decides to use certain pitches more.

Like what you saw here.

A 3rd or 4th pitch that's doing well that day would likely be saved for an out pitch, (2 strikes, throw it once or twice to try to get the out , try to induce a DP or pop up, etc).

I think this game forgets sometimes that the fastball is still the most common pitch thrown for a lot of pitchers - some upwards of 70% of the time, especially relievers (and no "bonuses" or whatever because of "adjusting", I shouldn't have to force "changing things up" when I'm using someone like Chapman who throws 78% fastball to devastating effect, let alone someone like Kenley Jansen...90% fastballs, literally!). Heck, it was basically all Rivera ever threw - his cutter. Guys like Paco Rodriguez and Kenta Maeda are outside the norm, as are knuckleballers - and even then that's set in their pitch arsenals with a secondary pitch as primary.

I wish "pitch confidence" if it has to exist at all, would dictate more WHEN the pitch is thrown instead of how much it's (ab)used, especially for secondary pitches, whatever those happen to be for the individual pitcher.

That and a "pitch usage rating" in the editor if setting them as pitch 1 through 5 don't do it in and of itself.

[bad_philanthropy]

Re: Too many change-ups (unrealistic pitching selection)

The pitch confidence should be scaled better based on the type of pitch. A confident pitcher who is close to max with his changeup is just way too locked in in terms of location and release point. It's hard to hit even if you know it's coming and wait on it. There should at least be more changeups coming in at less deceptive trajectories.

[benny15]

Re: Too many change-ups (unrealistic pitching selection)

And that was his 4th pitch, which is supposed to influence pitch selection by the CPU pitcher.

Even in a "purely generic" sense, that was too many change-ups. The most frequent user of the change-up last year by anyone with at least 50 innings of work was Francisco Rodriguez, who threw his change 43% of the time, and he operates basically as a 2-pitch pitcher (occasional curve, mostly FB/CH)

Among pitchers qualified for the ERA title last year, John Danks (29%) and Felix Hernandez (28%) threw their change the most and they use all of their pitch types significantly. Trevor Hoffman's best pitch was arguably his change (if I remember right, it made him something of an anomaly...a finesse closer) and he threw it no more than 33% of the time.

That's been a thing in this game for a while - pitch selection can get "out there", even beyond just a game where he decides to use certain pitches more.

Like what you saw here.

A 3rd or 4th pitch that's doing well that day would likely be saved for an out pitch, (2 strikes, throw it once or twice to try to get the out , try to induce a DP or pop up, etc).

I think this game forgets sometimes that the fastball is still the most common pitch thrown for a lot of pitchers - some upwards of 70% of the time, especially relievers (and no "bonuses" or whatever because of "adjusting", I shouldn't have to force "changing things up" when I'm using someone like Chapman who throws 78% fastball to devastating effect, let alone someone like Kenley Jansen...90% fastballs, literally!). Heck, it was basically all Rivera ever threw - his cutter. Guys like Paco Rodriguez and Kenta Maeda are outside the norm, as are knuckleballers - and even then that's set in their pitch arsenals with a secondary pitch as primary.

I wish "pitch confidence" if it has to exist at all, would dictate more WHEN the pitch is thrown instead of how much it's (ab)used, especially for secondary pitches, whatever those happen to be for the individual pitcher.

That and a "pitch usage rating" in the editor if setting them as pitch 1 through 5 don't do it in and of itself.

Super well said!

Thanks for taking the time to write all that!

[Ghost Of The Year]

Re: Too many change-ups (unrealistic pitching selection)

Need more sample size. While Yordano only threw his changeup 13% in all of 2015, in June he did throw it 21% of the time.

[RLB]

Re: Too many change-ups (unrealistic pitching selection)

So if you turned off pitch confidence, would that change this any?

[benny15]

Re: Too many change-ups (unrealistic pitching selection)

So if you turned off pitch confidence, would that change this any?

I'm actually curious about this and will give it a go.

[benny15]

Re: Too many change-ups (unrealistic pitching selection)

Need more sample size. While Yordano only threw his changeup 13% in all of 2015, in June he did throw it 21% of the time.

He finished game with over 50% CH. This happens almost every game regardless of pitcher when you get to all star difficulty level. It's even more pronounced if you take pitches and are good at fouling off pitches.

[Jr.]

Re: Too many change-ups (unrealistic pitching selection)

I play with pitch confidence off. I don't see 50% off-speed games, but pitchers will still go to their secondary pitches more frequently if they're working.