Were we ever told why Real-Time Presentation was removed?

[Blzer]

Re: Were we ever told why Real-Time Presentation was removed?

For a short time SDS was right in their prime with options. RTP was great and they gave everyone the option to turn it off. Play the game how you saw fit. If they'd just add QC to what they had, everything would have been golden. These past 6/7 years there are in "either or" mode. Either you get this option, or you don't.

SDS used to be known for not taking things away. Now, they are just like all the rest. Who would have thought ten years ago are now becoming the good ole' days?

I got really upset when they started adding the "pearly white beach ball" look to pitches and when you're on defense. I think it started when they moved over to PS4 and their basic claim is that with their lighting you can't see the ball when it hits certain shadows. While that may be true, it sounds more like there is a problem with the lighting.

I swear that I became a worse hitter in this game when they started doing that. There is something about the depth perception that I can't make sense of anymore, and I used to be very fine with the fastest pitch speed in the past when the ball was "normal size" and it wasn't pasted over with basically "pure white" (yes, I know they put in seams, but it's still hard to work with for me).

There is no setting to turn this off, but based on the tech test I played earlier I don't think it's as big of a beach ball as it used to be. It's still as white as it used to be, though.

[beau21]

Re: Were we ever told why Real-Time Presentation was removed?

Man. Watching the games today has really just made me long for a true RTP broadcast option in the game. I would love to see SCEA take the camera angles between pitches, after ABs, etc. and mimic those as much as possible.

The game, in a lot of ways, plays incredibly true to the game of baseball. But the presentation package (incl. camera cuts) leaves much to be desired, from an immersion standpoint.

[bp4baseball]

Re: Were we ever told why Real-Time Presentation was removed?

I always thought a cool feature would be matching all the stadium camera locations exactly and staying true to them for cut scenes and replays. Similarly to how they matched all the pitching broadcast views across stadiums one year.

[Red_Ted_is_back]

Re: Were we ever told why Real-Time Presentation was removed?

It can be, though.

Let me preface this by saying that I've always loved The Show for the plethora of options available to the gamer to play the game how they want. It's one thing that makes it stand out from every other sports game and a big reason why The Show is so respected.

I can empathize w/ both sides, though, b/c although I love the plethora of options to play how I want to play, I can also see where too many options can definitely be a bad thing in regards to development and truly progressing the game beyond what it actually could be.

Every addition has to be balanced w/ the other options in mind, which means the other options may have to be tuned to compensate, which only means more work for the devs when producing a yearly release game, which only means sacrificing attention spent towards more important aspects of the game. For all we know, the plethora of options could be holding this game back in ways we're not considering.

The reason I personally skip through the vast majority of presentation cut-scenes is b/c the cut-scenes haven't changed in over a decade. The presentation aspects of the game still use a lot of the same visuals and commentary lines from 15 years ago. When you spend 10-15 years seeing the same cut-scenes of the pitcher running to the mound, the same batter-walkup style, the same replay styles, etc. then it's hard not to "X" through them.

You could also say if more attention were paid to updating the presentation yearly and making it seem as fresh as possible, then more people like me would be willing to sit through them, but that just cycles back to my original point of SDS having to choose which aspect is more important to improve in their limited time-frame.

TL;DR

This has nothing to do w/ generational appeal. Like every yearly sports game, this has everything to do w/ the limited time-frame given to these devs to release a yearly title. If they had more dev time, then they could probably fit everything in and make sure every option was copacetic w/ every other option... but b/c of the limited time-frame, sometimes they're forced to choose which is more important to focus on from necessity out of their control.

You’ve captured a key consideration here. Adding a ‘toggleable’ feature to enhance the experience for one type of user requires extensive testing to ensure that not only does that feature work when it’s enabled, but to ensure that the game continues to work as expected when the feature is disabled.

Even when it’s coded most efficiently (in fact, especially when it’s coded most efficiently) unexpected things will happen that then have to be diagnosed and corrected, then tested again.

As an example, I’m working on my own project to generate a game (that’s a small part of the big picture). Presently there are four types of gameplay - pitch by pitch, sim plate appearance, sim to top of 9th and sim entire game. They all use the same core gameplay code so any little change I inject into it is going to impact all four. Eg when I implemented the sim plate appearance option, it messed up the sim to top of 9th. Or when I added in the game log it completely messed up the end of inning display.

Anyway, just wanted to support your quality post with further evidence.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Caulfield]

Re: Were we ever told why Real-Time Presentation was removed?

on my Saturday games I play w/commentary on, and what I do when pitching is let the crew quit talking before I throw a pitch. and when batting I step out of the box before every pitch to give the crew time to get more said. I'm the Human Rain Delay reincarnate lol
I can get my game length to well over 2 hours doing this (when I'm not playing w/QC on). that's really why I miss the real-time presentation, it helped me pace my games out. I've also found I win more on Saturday games because of this disciplining. I've tried doing it when I have commentary off, but it's harder for me to replicate that pace and discipline

he got slimed

jeez, I feel like an idiot. I only realised last night, after years of stepping out of the box to let the commentary finish so I can focus on the pitch, all I had to do was push the direction button to the right to hold the pitcher in place till I was ready for the pitch

*Big Homer D'oh Here*

[smokines3]

Re: Were we ever told why Real-Time Presentation was removed?

As the title indicates, were we ever told why the completely real-time presentation was removed? Either I am misremembering or we used to be able to watch the entire game with no skip forwards if we never pressed any button between pitches.

Now these days, when using the slowest presentation style it still randomly will skip ahead immediately to the next pitch, it sometimes skips the batter walk-ups, it's not 100% real-time anymore. It will be real-time for a period of time, but then the game will just decide when it wants to skip forward.

I'm someone who enjoys never skipping anything unless it is poor quality (Madden 21 intros and practically all Madden 21 presentation). When we had real-time presentation I loved relaxing and letting the game unfold slowly like a real baseball game. When I play NBA 2k21 I let the game play out in its entirety and never skip forward at all.

I would rather see quirks with the real-time presentation over having it jarringly skip forward on its own. For example, I am more immersed in NBA 2k21 even when there is a goof in the presentation with clipping, or someone walking through the camera than I am when MLB The Show immediately skips to the next pitch before the foul ball even had a chance to land. If it was removed due to quirkiness I don't agree with the move. It is similar to referees in Madden. They weren't perfect, but it was still much better when they were on the field than it is now that they are completely gone. They didn't throw flags in real-time or act like real humans 100% of the time, but seeing them there brought the game to life more than not having them at all.

I've bitched about this to the devs directly since 2011 and they can barely even remember what I'm referring to. True story... I miss the option to allow a full batter walk up and catcher throw back... hurts immersion for me. I didn't mind hitting X.

[MLB14]

Re: Were we ever told why Real-Time Presentation was removed?

if they were xing through the RT presentation anyway why remove it? They still x through anything that is not the next pitch. Even abbreviated cut scenes.



C

Also, if people X through the realtime presentation, why the hell didn't they just turn it off instead of having to X through it?

[emoji336] mobile device

[MLB14]

Re: Were we ever told why Real-Time Presentation was removed?

my guess is with so many new animations added every year, the Studio needed the memory space. hopefully the next-gens will bring a return to form

That isn't it. They just don't want it in there.

[emoji336] mobile device

[Blzer]

Re: Were we ever told why Real-Time Presentation was removed?

Also, if people X through the realtime presentation, why the hell didn't they just turn it off instead of having to X through it?

[emoji336] mobile device

And did they account for every individual who doesn't X through it? Were we not a part of the Nielsen family of SDS's telemetry?

(that's not to say I didn't X through things, but I chose when I wanted to and when I didn't... I'd prefer not to have the decision made for me)

[Detroit Tigers]

Were we ever told why Real-Time Presentation was removed?

And did they account for every individual who doesn't X through it? Were we not a part of the Nielsen family of SDS's telemetry?



(that's not to say I didn't X through things, but I chose when I wanted to and when I didn't... I'd prefer not to have the decision made for me)

This is why this topic has always bugged the hell out of me.

RTP had its flaws and moments where it dragged really bad — the best example being after the pitcher caught the return throw from the catcher, he took another 3-6 seconds to return to his set position. That sucked. That was too long and the animations sucked and were unnaturally slow on top of it. So I’m going to presume 99% of people skipped that, including myself, all the time. But they were skipping the lame, slow, too-long reset animation, not the catcher throwing the ball back, I’d bet my last dollar on that. But they got rid of the catcher throwing the ball back.

This was a complete misread of what was “wrong” with RTP, and everything they’ve done about it since (nothing) stems from that initial misread.

I could tell them how to fix it but I don’t care enough since obviously they don’t either.

[ChaseB]

Re: Were we ever told why Real-Time Presentation was removed?

Beyond the telemetry, my take was always that since the catcher throwing animations were so bad and the pitcher was so friggin' slow to get the ball back and get set, there were probably tangential reasons to sort of go away from it even if it did technically hurt "immersion" if you just want everything to play out.

Does any sports game do full-on RTP?

-In 2K you see guys come to the scorer's table to sub in and they'll do full free-throw routines, but they skip stuff elsewhere with fouls and such.

-Madden for sure skips stuff -- their audience wanted them to go towards a RTP thing, and then they sort of tried to get there for a bit then abandoned it because their audience is even more click-heavy than The Show's I would bet. This shows most notably with how no huddle is now designed and you don't see guys go back to the huddle either.

-NHL does not do it, they break away after whistle stoppages.

-FIFA maybe? They do getting the ball back for throw-ins and substitutions are mostly RTP. Maybe that's the closest? Minus maybe the shootout elements?

-PES skips

[MLB14]

Re: Were we ever told why Real-Time Presentation was removed?

And did they account for every individual who doesn't X through it? Were we not a part of the Nielsen family of SDS's telemetry?



(that's not to say I didn't X through things, but I chose when I wanted to and when I didn't... I'd prefer not to have the decision made for me)

I like MLB The Show, but some of the options (choices) they've removed from the game (or never added) make zero sense to me.

People have been sayin they don't wanna play with the home run cam on. Why don't they make it an option? It's so easy to do that, so what's the reason there's no option to toggle it? I think it's to showcase the HR animations, which have gotten pretty ridiculous by the way.

I don't mind the HR cam, but I think it's a good example of a simple choice they refuse to offer us.

I gotta say this too. It's off topic, but.. the game needs some cloth physics at this point. I'm not sayin the uniforms look bad but c'mon. It's long overdue.

It would add more depth to the game's visuals than some people think. You'd be able to see the wind. Players with long hair would be another thing that would fall into this visual upgrade.

The processing power is there. I think the game engine they're workin with is very limiting at this point.

Sorry for injecting that into the reply.

[emoji336] mobile device

[Blzer]

Re: Were we ever told why Real-Time Presentation was removed?

Does any sports game do full-on RTP?

-In 2K you see guys come to the scorer's table to sub in and they'll do full free-throw routines, but they skip stuff elsewhere with fouls and such.

-Madden for sure skips stuff -- their audience wanted them to go towards a RTP thing, and then they sort of tried to get there for a bit then abandoned it because their audience is even more click-heavy than The Show's I would bet. This shows most notably with how no huddle is now designed and you don't see guys go back to the huddle either.

At least in Madden, if they do RTP you can go to the playbook during that time. That is, if they have it implemented that way. ESPN NFL 2K5 was like that.

One thing I want to see NBA 2K do is save replays for when play is dead (timeout, out of bounds, foul, etc). I think that would be cool. I think NHL games have been doing that forever (EDIT: or as you said, "whistle stoppages," which is a better term).

[capa]

Re: Were we ever told why Real-Time Presentation was removed?

Remember, for 90% of items, if you asked for it and it is not in the game it is because they don't want you to have it.

C

Sent from my Pixel using Operation Sports mobile app

[canes21]

Re: Were we ever told why Real-Time Presentation was removed?

Beyond the telemetry, my take was always that since the catcher throwing animations were so bad and the pitcher was so friggin' slow to get the ball back and get set, there were probably tangential reasons to sort of go away from it even if it did technically hurt "immersion" if you just want everything to play out.



Does any sports game do full-on RTP?



-In 2K you see guys come to the scorer's table to sub in and they'll do full free-throw routines, but they skip stuff elsewhere with fouls and such.



-Madden for sure skips stuff -- their audience wanted them to go towards a RTP thing, and then they sort of tried to get there for a bit then abandoned it because their audience is even more click-heavy than The Show's I would bet. This shows most notably with how no huddle is now designed and you don't see guys go back to the huddle either.



-NHL does not do it, they break away after whistle stoppages.



-FIFA maybe? They do getting the ball back for throw-ins and substitutions are mostly RTP. Maybe that's the closest? Minus maybe the shootout elements?



-PES skips

I think 2k is the closest to full RTP. It does skip some minute things, but it seems to capture the vast majority of game flow with RTP.

Fifa is probably the second closest, but I haven't played Fifa in a couple of years, so I'm not sure how it has changed over that time.

Madden isn't even close. Madden is a cut scene galore.

I feel like baseball is the one game where RTP is needed the most because any baseball fan knows that all of the time between the action is a key part of the experience, especially at the ballpark. I would love to see SCEA make a move to bring back 100% RTP even if it had some quirks because it would still be better than the awkward position we sit at now.

Like I initially said, 2k's near 100% RTP has quirky moments, but they are far less jarring than having the game skip forward 10 seconds on it's own or going to a repetitive cut scene for the 50th time of the game (Madden).

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