Why do pitchers not have speed attributes?

[DarthRambo]

Re: Why do pitchers not have speed attributes?

The whole point of the DH is to make the offense better, right? For the fans? We have enough stats that show the DH basically adds no extra run output per game. You have to play close to 10 games for the DH teams to score 1 extra run over the non-DH teams.

I'll never understand this push for the DH when the data is right in our faces and shows there is no significant difference when a lineup replaces the pitcher with a DH.

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Not the whole point. Mainly it is about avoiding injuries to pitchers swinging the bat and running bases unnecessarily. Pitchers are like the QB of football. NFL does their job to protect them. It's about time the MLB does the same thing to protect unnecessary injuries to pitchers. At least this is my biggest argument for DH. And yes, the added chance of more offense is appealing.

I will never understand those who really want pitchers to hit. Like why? What's the benefit of it?

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[countryboy]

Re: Why do pitchers not have speed attributes?

The whole point of the DH is to make the offense better, right? For the fans? We have enough stats that show the DH basically adds no extra run output per game. You have to play close to 10 games for the DH teams to score 1 extra run over the non-DH teams.

I'll never understand this push for the DH when the data is right in our faces and shows there is no significant difference when a lineup replaces the pitcher with a DH.

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It has more to do with ownership/managers/etc...wanting to prevent pitchers from getting injured hitting or running the bases given the amount of money top end starters are receiving these days.

[DMVian]

Re: Why do pitchers not have speed attributes?

You dont see THAT MANY slow pitchers on the base paths always anymore. I think it’s time for San Diego Studio to count in the factor that most pitchers can run and hit nowadays in the NL. This needs to be throttled and made apparent in MLB 22 The Show


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It's in there.

One of my favorite games was I was in extras with the Pirates and it was tied with Jacob Stallings at first, who has a 0 speed stats. Mitch Keller is slow, but not horribly slow so I trotted him out to PR instead of my backup C. Scored him from first on a double to right and a play at the plate.

[sportomatic75]

Re: Why do pitchers not have speed attributes?

Pitchers as a whole this year are hitting .110/.148/.142
with 12 home runs and 52 doubles in 3160 plate appearances. They strike out 45% of the time. Some pitchers can hit, most absolutely suck with a bat.

As far as running, some can run well, but I'd argue most pitchers are pretty below average speed wise.


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I disagree to the point where the NL has some great hitting pitchers that they dont adjust their ratings in the game. Also just for example, Marcus Stroman on the Mets is actually very fast on the basepaths, so some pitchers could use a speed on baserunning increase


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[Caulfield]

Re: Why do pitchers not have speed attributes?

if the Studio does indeed hold down pitcher speeds intentionally,
I bet it's because of the potential for online cheese abuse

[Seancefc]

Re: Why do pitchers not have speed attributes?

Was on the fence about a DH being introduced in the NL next year, but after seeing stroman have no intention of swinging the bat in a bases loaded- 0 out situation with 3 FB’s down the middle, which ultimately resulted in no runs being scored in the inning….it made me realise it doesn’t make for good baseball.

The pros for a DH far outweigh the cons.

[Caulfield]

Re: Why do pitchers not have speed attributes?

well, since thread has shark-jumped from pitcher speed in the Show to the IRL merits of the DH,

we may as well go further down the rabbit hole & follow it to its logical conclusion of baseball in one hundred years,

and games with 9 DH's and 9 defensive players

[Seancefc]

Re: Why do pitchers not have speed attributes?

well, since thread has shark-jumped from pitcher speed in the Show to the IRL merits of the DH,

we may as well go further down the rabbit hole & follow it to its logical conclusion of baseball in one hundred years,

and games with 9 DH's and 9 defensive players

The game will be played by robots at that stage, they’ll be able to do whatever they’re programmed to.

[Caulfield]

Re: Why do pitchers not have speed attributes?

The game will be played by robots at that stage, they’ll be able to do whatever they’re programmed to.

I'd be fine with that as long as robot pitchers are programmed to hit,
and I'm even fine with robot fans also as well too lol

but the day the umps are robotical is the day I'm out. maybe we'll be so advanced in a hundred years the only living breathing thing will be the ball itself

[tessl]

Re: Why do pitchers not have speed attributes?

It has more to do with ownership/managers/etc...wanting to prevent pitchers from getting injured hitting or running the bases given the amount of money top end starters are receiving these days.

That's part of it but also the player's union is pushing for the DH because it extends the career of some players who have become too obese to play defense.

I like the pressure a sacrifice bunt puts on the defense and managers using their bench in double switches. Additionally you see pitchers being pulled for a pinch hitter because their team is trailing and the relief pitchers sometimes is worse that the pitcher who was pulled.

Regarding injuries Warren Spahn had over 2,000 plate appearances and never got injured during a plate appearance. The reason pitchers today get injured at the plate is because they have the DH throughout their career in high school, college and milb.

It's akin to field goal kickers in football. I'm old enough to remember a couple guys named Lou Groza and George Blanda. Lou Groza was an offensive lineman and field goal kicker. George Blanda was a quarterback and field goal kicker. Those guys were football players. Today's kickers aren't football players - they are kickers and would get injured if you put them in the offensive line or under center. Same thing with pitchers. They sustain injuries batting because they have never done it.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Why do pitchers not have speed attributes?

I disagree to the point where the NL has some great hitting pitchers that they dont adjust their ratings in the game. Also just for example, Marcus Stroman on the Mets is actually very fast on the basepaths, so some pitchers could use a speed on baserunning increase


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Stroman's Sprint Speed this year is 24.9 ft/s. The players with averages between 24.8 and 25.0 average 27 speed in game. And that's inflated a bit by Alejandro Kirk (55 speed), Zack Collins (61 speed), and to a lesser extent Alex Blandino (43 speed); the other 9 players all have speed between 10 and 27. So I think Stroman's 25 speed rating is actually very reasonable. He's in the 13.6 percentile in major league baseball this year. Just because he's fast for a pitcher (he is 16th amongst pitchers) doesn't mean he's actually fast.

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[canes21]

Re: Why do pitchers not have speed attributes?

Not the whole point. Mainly it is about avoiding injuries to pitchers swinging the bat and running bases unnecessarily. Pitchers are like the QB of football. NFL does their job to protect them. It's about time the MLB does the same thing to protect unnecessary injuries to pitchers. At least this is my biggest argument for DH. And yes, the added chance of more offense is appealing.

I will never understand those who really want pitchers to hit. Like why? What's the benefit of it?

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Pitchers getting hurt at the plate is a nearly nonexistent issue. It doesn't need a solution.

I prefer no DH over the DH for the managerial decisions that come with it.

3rd inning, bases loaded, no outs. Does the pitcher take all AB, do they try a squeeze, do they swing away?

6th inning, 0-1 game, your SP has allowed 2 base runners all game and the 1 run given up is unearned. If bases are empty what do you do? If there is a man on base do you simply sac bunt or do you PH and try for a big inning?

What if there are 2 outs, runners on 2nd and 3rd. Do you PH then? What if the pen is in a cold spell and you don't want to turn to them already?

It can go the other way. You're up 2-1. The 8 hitter is up in the 7th with 2 outs, bases empty, do you intentionally walk him hoping they take their pitcher out who is dealing? Do they have an elite bat in the on deck circle and you're afraid to call their bluff?

These are just a few examples of things that will go away forever once the DH is implemented into the NL. These are not the only examples of managerial decisions that are lost.

Going to a universal DH leads to you tossing away so many decisions that are made nightly in order to either prevent injuries that are incredibly rare, or to increase offense at an insignificant rate. It's not a fair trade.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Why do pitchers not have speed attributes?

I don't watch baseball to watch managers manage. I watch to watch players play, and I'd much rather watch an actual hitter hit with the bases loaded than see a pitcher take three pitches and turn around. I also like, when I go to a ballgame, seeing a team's star player probably DH on an "off day" rather than not play at all or, maybe, get 1 plate appearance as a pinch hitter.

Plus, having a DH doesn't really change those decisions. Do you pinch hit for your weaker hitting CFer late in the game, or pinch run for your lumbering catcher. Things it's much harder to justify doing in the NL when you have to save most of your bench ammo to hit for the pitcher.

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[canes21]

Re: Why do pitchers not have speed attributes?

At least you are honest and simply say you don't care about the managerial side of the game. I can respect that. Too many people continue to try and move the goalposts with the discussion whenever the stats or managerial decisions are brought up.

[DarthRambo]

Re: Why do pitchers not have speed attributes?

Plenty of managerial decisions to make with the DH. There isn't more or less, just different decisions to be made. I'd rather see hitters hit over a pitcher bunting, taking 3 pitches down the middle with bases loaded cause he will hit into a double play anyway, or any other situation. Pitchers are rarely allowed to pitch past 6 innings anymore so the decision to pinch hit him or not in the 7th inning isn't even a question. 99% of the time he will be pinch hit for regardless unless he's at 70 pitches by some miracle after 6ip.

And most times they go through the lineup twice and that's all they're asked to do. Usually that's only 5ip. Relievers never hit so from the 5th or 6th inning on 9 times out of 10 you're using bench players each time the #9 hole spot comes up. I'd rather use my bench players to run or hit for a struggling hitter when the game is on the line. Really just personal preference of type of managerial decisions you prefer to see.

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