We need a new injury system

[tessl]

Re: We need a new injury system

So myself and others have shown that there is talent in the draft. If you sim out 10 years. I know you don't sim but run a test franchise and try it. Look at the talent distribution. Sim out 20 years and you will see that as well. It could be argued that there is too much talent and that the top end of rosters are too inflated. The exact opposite of what you repeatedly state and assume.

I agree that we need a deeper draft. A roster size increase has to happen at the same time for it to be effective and to maintain a balance.

The draft needs improved. No doubt. But you keep referring to a completely broken draft system that isn't completely broken. I have been studying the draft and progression/regression in this game for 8 years now. It is a lot better than it was in MLB 17 or even MLB 20 that many (myself included) tout as an all time great iteration of this game.

Both the draft and progression and regression need worked on still. No doubt.

So I suggest you do this. Run a test sim out 15 years, for an in between and assess the rosters then. Then make your observations on the draft.

I might do that and I don't want to dismiss your work but I have a couple questions. Are you using sim stats or attributes to conclude everything is fine?

If you are using attributes what contact/vision/power do you consider MLB level? What SP stamina do you consider MLB level? What h/9 bb/9 k/9 do you consider MLB level?

[JWDixon120]

We need a new injury system

Cycloniac put me onto this thread.

When I get home later, I’m going to put together a tool that users can use to manually injure players that includes more realistic injuries and time the player is out.


-Franchise Fidelity to Reality Roster out Now! (MLB 24)
-Creator of JWDixon’s Franchise Spreadsheet
-More coming soon!

[eric7064]

Re: We need a new injury system

I think all sports games need a new injury system for the most part.

I agree MLB needs a new one. We need more day to day stuff, even lingering injuries.

I would love to see guys that are day to day with small injuries and even have the ratings be slightly effected until they get like a rest day or two.

I think the long term injuries are ok for the most part, I just want more of the annoying "day to day" injuries that occur all of the time for clubs.

[bronxbombers21325]

Re: We need a new injury system

Definitely agree with everything said on this. I’ll add:

I’ve given up relying the logic for injuries. Players only get injured in games. It doesn’t come in between. Too many times the SP goes out in the first inning (creating an impromptu bullpen game). Never does the SP go out before his start (which is how it happens the vast majority of the time IRL). And if a franchise has a certain amount of injuries (and it’s not very many) the rest of the team becomes immortal (can’t be injured) until a slot opens.

At least they give some control if you want it. Manual injuries.

But even that’s unnecessarily cumbersome. Just let us pick the exact numbers of days. Why the ridiculous gaps. Nothing between 13 days and 35 days. Then another one between 70 and 120 (I think). There issome variance there getting into those gaps but is it manual injuries or not???

Those are the problems with manual. The stupid gaps and the roster size issue. I wind up sending good players to a-ball and dropping them from the 40man just to save the il slot.

I think roster sizing would require coding (which was devoted to contracts—which I have no interest in).

But how hard can it be to rework the injury days? I suppose it was done originally on purpose. They like it that way????


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I've had a few instances where prior to the game a box will pop up and say a pitcher was injured pre game and can't make his start. Doesn't happen too often though. Most times it's like you said, he'll come out and throw 3 or 4 pitches and then be injured, then you have to destroy your bull pen to get through the game.

[countryboy]

Re: We need a new injury system

I might do that and I don't want to dismiss your work but I have a couple questions. Are you using sim stats or attributes to conclude everything is fine?

If you are using attributes what contact/vision/power do you consider MLB level? What SP stamina do you consider MLB level? What h/9 bb/9 k/9 do you consider MLB level?

I won't speak for him, but for myself what I'm using to determine everything is "fine" is that players who are drafted are finding their way to the major leagues with similar attributes, or better, than players who are currently in the MLB.

What personal arbitrary number we have set in our minds as to what constitutes a player being MLB quality doesn't matter. In the game an overall of 65 is considered MLB replacement level for positional players, and an overall of 67 is considered MLB replacement level for pitchers. Those overalls are calculated by a host of attributes that can be put together in a variety of different ways.

You could look at the base roster for the game when it firsts releases and see various overalls and attributes for players who start the year at the MLB level. You can then see prospects who are drafted hold similar attributes/overalls once drafted or get to those levels fairly quickly in the game.

Nobody is disputing that things can't be "better", but to flat out claim a feature is broken simply because attributes/overalls don't align with your arbitrary numeric, is simply wrong.

[Funkycorm]

Re: We need a new injury system

I might do that and I don't want to dismiss your work but I have a couple questions. Are you using sim stats or attributes to conclude everything is fine?

If you are using attributes what contact/vision/power do you consider MLB level? What SP stamina do you consider MLB level? What h/9 bb/9 k/9 do you consider MLB level?

The CPU doesn't care about individual attributes. So only overalls matter to them and their roster management.

About 5 years ago, a dev here said that the average attribute rating for any rating, excluding stamina, injury, and durability was 62.

If you plug all 62s into a player ratings you get a range from 72-75 depending on position. We will call 73-74 the average overall for a player knowing the average attribute is 62.

Let's look at the 20-80 scale.

A 50 on the scale is your average MLB starter. So we can extrapolate that this 50 now corresponds to a 62 for an individual attribute rating as well as 73-74 overall.

On the scale, we know that 40 is replacement level. And going over 50 is above average, all star, elite etc.

For this scale, 3-4 overall is between each tier. Aka 55 is 77, 60 is 80, etc. It is the same as you go lower.

But what individual attributes match this? It is roughly 4-5 points in each attribute. We will call it 5 for math.

So based on the scale:

A scale 45 would be 70 overall. And 40, which is replacement level, would be 67 overall. This number on the scale is also different for RP.

So if we go down 1 deviation for attributes as well, 45 on the scale is 57. And replacement level at 40 on the scale would be 52.

Using this logic, and I do, anything 52 and over attribute wise would be an MLB replacement or higher. Remember this excludes the attributes I mentioned above.

There will be other opinions on this but these are my thoughts.

Let's use a draft pick example. Say a 2b has 35 contact and vision drafted at 18. Average increase for attributes is 3-4 a year. In their 5 years before being rule 5 eligible, they end up as a 23 year old with those numbers both being 55. Which is above replacement level and should continue to grow based on potential under they are 27-28 years old. So if this player has a solid potential, they can grow 20 more points in a other 5 years from 23. So I would ask, is this 28 year old 2b with contact and vision of 75 a bad player? Or are they likely their teams everyday 2b?

Edit: As far as sim stats, stats come naturally. I personally don't fuss over stats because in baseball there is always deviations from the mean.

[MiracleMet718]

Re: We need a new injury system

I've had a few instances where prior to the game a box will pop up and say a pitcher was injured pre game and can't make his start. Doesn't happen too often though. Most times it's like you said, he'll come out and throw 3 or 4 pitches and then be injured, then you have to destroy your bull pen to get through the game.

It’s usually when a pitcher/player are overtired. It does happen at random too though. I’ve lost guys to a few starts because they came up lame before start and I had to pull them. Or sometimes it suggests resting them to avoid further injury and when I don’t listen, the guy gets hurt more seriously during the start and misses time.

[tessl]

Re: We need a new injury system

The CPU doesn't care about individual attributes. So only overalls matter to them and their roster management.

About 5 years ago, a dev here said that the average attribute rating for any rating, excluding stamina, injury, and durability was 62.

If you plug all 62s into a player ratings you get a range from 72-75. We will call 73 the average overall for a player knowing the average attribute is 62.

Let's look at the 20-80 scale.

A 50 on the scale is your average MLB starter. So we can extrapolate that this 50 now corresponds to a 62 for an individual attribute rating.

On the scale, we know that 40 is replacement level. And going over 50 is above average, all star, elite etc.

For this scale, 3-4 overall is between each tier. Aka 55 is 77, 60 is 80, etc. It is the same as you go lower.

But what individual attributes match this. It is roughly 4-5 points in each attribute. We will call it 5 for math.

So based on the scale. 50 is 73-74.

So 45 would be 70 overall. And 40, which is replacement level, would be 67 overall. This number on the scale is also different for RP.

So if we go down 1 deviation for attributes, 45 on the scale is 57. And replacement level at 40 on the scale would be 52.

Using this logic, and I do, anything 52 and over attribute wise would be an MLB replacement or higher. Remember this excludes the attributes I mentioned above.

There will be other opinions on this but this is my thoughts.

Let's use a draft pick example. Say a 2b has 35 contact and vision drafted at 18. Average increase for attributes is 3-4 a year. In their 5 years before being rule 5 eligible, they end up as a 23 year old with those numbers both being 55. Which is above replacement level.

The frustrating thing for me is the focus on overall and one reason I'm buying mlbts25 is the developers in the video said they have stopped using overall to calculate value.

Play 162 in manage mode on default sliders with a roster of 50's attribute players. You will have the worst record in the league unless every other team in the league also has 50's attributes.

[Funkycorm]

Re: We need a new injury system

The frustrating thing for me is the focus on overall and one reason I'm buying mlbts25 is the developers in the video said they have stopped using overall to calculate value.

Play 162 in manage mode on default sliders with a roster of 50's attribute players. You will have the worst record in the league unless every other team in the league also has 50's attributes.

I did update this paragraph:

Let's use a draft pick example. Say a 2b has 35 contact and vision drafted at 18. Average increase for attributes is 3-4 a year. In their 5 years before being rule 5 eligible, they end up as a 23 year old with those numbers both being 55. Which is above replacement level and should continue to grow based on potential under they are 27-28 years old. So if this player has a solid potential, they can grow 20 more points in a other 5 years from 23. So I would ask, is this 28 year old 2b with contact and vision of 75 a bad player? Or are they likely their teams everyday 2b?



-----

I get the focus on overall is frustrating. But overall is a product of individual attributes and can be a gauge for player talent. It is not a perfect number but it is also far from useless.

[Funkycorm]

Re: We need a new injury system

The frustrating thing for me is the focus on overall and one reason I'm buying mlbts25 is the developers in the video said they have stopped using overall to calculate value.

Play 162 in manage mode on default sliders with a roster of 50's attribute players. You will have the worst record in the league unless every other team in the league also has 50's attributes.

So the 50s attributes wouldn't be a roster of players. That is replacement level. And that would be the same as what the game does for the minor leagues when you are doing RTTS.

The base roster would have players near MLB ready so when you draft these players in the draft, they have time to grow. That's how real baseball works and the game does simulate that pretty well.

You have to look at the big picture long term. Do that 15 year sim. Set everything to auto for your team you choose. And just start peeking at the rosters each off season. If you are using 2023, simulate to spring training 2038 and I think you will be surprised. Pick a few random draft picks each year to watch. Especially some A or high B potential players from the first few drafts and see where their careers take them. I think you will have a new perspective once you do this.

[MiracleMet718]

Re: We need a new injury system

The frustrating thing for me is the focus on overall and one reason I'm buying mlbts25 is the developers in the video said they have stopped using overall to calculate value.

Play 162 in manage mode on default sliders with a roster of 50's attribute players. You will have the worst record in the league unless every other team in the league also has 50's attributes.

If I may ask, why are you using players in the 50s? I keep all those guys in the minors until they are ready for a call up?

[Ghost Of The Year]

Re: We need a new injury system

If I may ask, why are you using players in the 50s? I keep all those guys in the minors until they are ready for a call up?

Yeah, the only 50s I use are strictly arms in the bullpen. And those arent the guys that are my regular BP. Those 50s guys are relief pitchers I rotate between AA and the big team, to give my regular BP a break, or if any of those regulars are injured. No way am I keeping a50s position player on my 40 man.

[JWDixon120]

Re: We need a new injury system

I've made an injury simulator for MLBTS based on this thread. I wanted to emulate the injury system in OOTP where injuries actually matter, meaning not only will depth be important, but tommy john surgery usually means a pitcher has a hit to their attributes.

This tool is meant to be ran daily.

Let me know what you think! All you have to do is make a copy of the sheet and then press the red button to generate injuries for the day. When you press the button, you'll need to give the script permission to run.

Link to the sheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

[tessl]

Re: We need a new injury system

If I may ask, why are you using players in the 50s? I keep all those guys in the minors until they are ready for a call up?

I'm not. Apparently I misconstrued what funkycorn was saying.

[Funkycorm]

Re: We need a new injury system

I'm not. Apparently I misconstrued what funkycorn was saying.

No worries.

Like I said, run a 15 year sim and look at what is important to you then make an informed decision based on that. You will also get a better perspective of where those of us who go deeper into franchise are coming from.