I hate to complain, but....

[Chef Matt]

Re: I hate to complain, but....

I was hoping it was RTTS specific.

Yeah I was wondering, for those that encountered this, which mode are you playing in? RTTS, season, chise, exhibition??

[Pared]

Re: I hate to complain, but....

Good one. Actually they left it in for the same reason the didn't address any of the issues in manage mode, 99% of programmer time is spent on rtts and graphics.

So what are the new features for next year, since you're so well informed?

[mcgee055]

Re: I hate to complain, but....

99% of programmer time is spent on rtts and graphics.

I could not agree more.

And it shows. The graphics are UNBELIEVEABLE. The show blows away other top sports games like madden and nba 2k when it comes to graphics.

I play rtts once in awhile. It's fun, but I'm a franchise guy.

In my opinion, I would like to see less time spent on rtts and graphics and more time on the actual gameplay and franchise mode.

Others might not agree with this, but I think gameplay is the most important thing. (in sports games for sure) I mean say it takes 1 hour to play a game. Multiply that by 162 games + playoffs. I mean that's 170 or so hours spent playing the game. And that's just one season.

The gameplay in general is very good and fun to play, but I just think that it could be tightened up a tad.

But that's just my $.02.

[countryboy]

Re: I hate to complain, but....

So people think that the devs overlooked gameplay and franchise mode?

I must've gotten a special copy of the game then, because in my game..the gameplay is top notch and franchise mode is robust.

[tessl]

Re: I hate to complain, but....

So what are the new features for next year, since you're so well informed?

They are going to include a forum within the game so people like you can be rude to others while playing the game.

[Pared]

Re: I hate to complain, but....

How ironic, that statement.

[PsychoBulk]

Re: I hate to complain, but....

So people think that the devs overlooked gameplay and franchise mode?

I must've gotten a special copy of the game then, because in my game..the gameplay is top notch and franchise mode is robust.

Me too CB, me too, lucky us eh?

[Scottdau]

Re: I hate to complain, but....

Wait a minute, you mean the game you played the player got stuck in the wall, like a video game? Hm, go figure the Show doing something like a VIDEO GAME! Hm, you got me there? Oh wait; that is right, it is a VIDEO GAME!

[o-BrAvEs-o]

Re: I hate to complain, but....

There was one out. If there was two outs it wouldn't have counted. A double play is optional so he is a free runner and if he crosses the plate before they turn the double play the run counts. No error or problem. You earned the run man. I'm 85% sure of this.

[Jdurg]

Re: I hate to complain, but....

I could not agree more.

And it shows. The graphics are UNBELIEVEABLE. The show blows away other top sports games like madden and nba 2k when it comes to graphics.

I play rtts once in awhile. It's fun, but I'm a franchise guy.

In my opinion, I would like to see less time spent on rtts and graphics and more time on the actual gameplay and franchise mode.

Others might not agree with this, but I think gameplay is the most important thing. (in sports games for sure) I mean say it takes 1 hour to play a game. Multiply that by 162 games + playoffs. I mean that's 170 or so hours spent playing the game. And that's just one season.

The gameplay in general is very good and fun to play, but I just think that it could be tightened up a tad.

But that's just my $.02.

I'm going to repeat this statement again. The coders who work on the graphics and presentation are NOT the same coders who work on the gameplay code in the game. The statement that "The coders spend all the time working on graphics and presentation and not gameplay" is exactly the same as saying that the plumbers who work on the pipes in your house are the same guys who do the electrical work in your house. It's two COMPLETELY different things. The coding process is nowhere NEAR the same! In fact, with graphics and presentation, I don't believe there is a lot of "coding" that goes on. If it's done like the games I've seen developed in the past on a PC, the graphical stuff is "put in" using a GUI and not text based coding. The only "text coding" done is to call up the graphical file names when required. That doesn't take a great deal of time to do.

The reason why you see so many "bugs" in games these days is due to the MASSIVE amounts of code that exist in a game. I am almost 100% certain that the actual lines of code used to create this game are on the order of hundreds of thousands of lines of code. The more code that exists in the game, the greater the chances you have of a bug popping up. When you alter one line of code, you then have to check every other line of code that references the one you just changed. You also need to check the other lines of code that then get involved further and further down the line. If you want to see how complex the coding of a videogame is, do a search on the web for "MAME Source Code". MAME is an arcade machine emulator developed by some insanely good coders to emulate the workings of thousands upon thousands of arcade machines. Take a look through that code and see how complex and intertwined it all is. See how changing one line of code will affect countless other lines of code. It's mind boggling.

With all of this, also take a look at the development cycle that the game has each year, keeping in mind that these developers are human beings and to expect them to work 24/7/365 is unrealistic. Also throw in the fact that each game cycle has a budget that has to be adhered to, and deadlines that must be reached. With the complexity of the game, it is 100% impossible to have a QA group catch each and every possible bug in the game in the very limited amount of time they get to test it.

It is also absolutely worthless to just state "there's a bug in the game that made this happen". That will not help the dev team figure out where the bug is coming from. They honestly need to know every single aspect of your game to trace down the bugs. Like what teams were playing, where were you playing, who was pitching, who was hitting, who was in the field, who had already been used, what settings were you using, what sliders were set, what video/audio options were on, how was your PS3 set up, etc. etc. If you notice, the bugs that have been fixed in the patches released thus far were the ones where people were able to provide this information to the dev team so they could recreate the situation that arose leading to this bug.

Now I'm not saying that you shouldn't come on here and state that you saw a bug or that you shouldn't feel upset that it happened. I understand how frustrating it can be. (Last year, I lost my RttS career when a bug came up and corrupted my save file after five plus years worth of playing as that character. It made me so distraught that I really didn't play the game again until this year's version came out).

What needs to be avoided is making harsh, venom filled statements or assumptions about how "easy" it is to fix a bug when you have no idea what is actually involved. There is a major difference between constructive criticism and needless badgering. I know that I'm not perfect and in my job if I make a mistake and someone gives me constructive criticism, I'll learn from it and use that critcism to correct the mistake. If someone just comes up to be and is a dick about it, I will ignore them.

[tessl]

Re: I hate to complain, but....

I'm going to repeat this statement again. The coders who work on the graphics and presentation are NOT the same coders who work on the gameplay code in the game. The statement that "The coders spend all the time working on graphics and presentation and not gameplay" is exactly the same as saying that the plumbers who work on the pipes in your house are the same guys who do the electrical work in your house. It's two COMPLETELY different things. The coding process is nowhere NEAR the same! In fact, with graphics and presentation, I don't believe there is a lot of "coding" that goes on. If it's done like the games I've seen developed in the past on a PC, the graphical stuff is "put in" using a GUI and not text based coding. The only "text coding" done is to call up the graphical file names when required. That doesn't take a great deal of time to do.

The reason why you see so many "bugs" in games these days is due to the MASSIVE amounts of code that exist in a game. I am almost 100% certain that the actual lines of code used to create this game are on the order of hundreds of thousands of lines of code. The more code that exists in the game, the greater the chances you have of a bug popping up. When you alter one line of code, you then have to check every other line of code that references the one you just changed. You also need to check the other lines of code that then get involved further and further down the line. If you want to see how complex the coding of a videogame is, do a search on the web for "MAME Source Code". MAME is an arcade machine emulator developed by some insanely good coders to emulate the workings of thousands upon thousands of arcade machines. Take a look through that code and see how complex and intertwined it all is. See how changing one line of code will affect countless other lines of code. It's mind boggling.

With all of this, also take a look at the development cycle that the game has each year, keeping in mind that these developers are human beings and to expect them to work 24/7/365 is unrealistic. Also throw in the fact that each game cycle has a budget that has to be adhered to, and deadlines that must be reached. With the complexity of the game, it is 100% impossible to have a QA group catch each and every possible bug in the game in the very limited amount of time they get to test it.

It is also absolutely worthless to just state "there's a bug in the game that made this happen". That will not help the dev team figure out where the bug is coming from. They honestly need to know every single aspect of your game to trace down the bugs. Like what teams were playing, where were you playing, who was pitching, who was hitting, who was in the field, who had already been used, what settings were you using, what sliders were set, what video/audio options were on, how was your PS3 set up, etc. etc. If you notice, the bugs that have been fixed in the patches released thus far were the ones where people were able to provide this information to the dev team so they could recreate the situation that arose leading to this bug.

Now I'm not saying that you shouldn't come on here and state that you saw a bug or that you shouldn't feel upset that it happened. I understand how frustrating it can be. (Last year, I lost my RttS career when a bug came up and corrupted my save file after five plus years worth of playing as that character. It made me so distraught that I really didn't play the game again until this year's version came out).

What needs to be avoided is making harsh, venom filled statements or assumptions about how "easy" it is to fix a bug when you have no idea what is actually involved. There is a major difference between constructive criticism and needless badgering. I know that I'm not perfect and in my job if I make a mistake and someone gives me constructive criticism, I'll learn from it and use that critcism to correct the mistake. If someone just comes up to be and is a dick about it, I will ignore them.

It's not just that there are bugs. Some of these are bugs that existed last year, were reported last year in the bugs and glitches thread in the suggested format, and got no attention.

In manage mode the cpu takes over and manages the game for the user controlled team. That is a major problem for those who use that mode, was reported last year, remains unchanged. For example, in a recent game the cpu decided it was time for me to try a double steal with two out. Catcher running the bases at second gets thrown out at third, inning over. The first time that happens it is a nuiscance, the 50th time it is a problem. Nobody can tell me programmers can't figure out a way to prevent this from happening if they spend a little time on it.

At PNC park there is a glitch with the way the outfield wall is designed that leads to inside the park home runs in manage mode. Reported last year, reported in the first glitches thread this year, reported in the second glitches thread this year, still exists. For example, in a recent homestand at PNC this happened 4 times. If it happened once a year it wouldn't be an issue. Again, the new ballparks are great but how hard would it be to change the wall at PNC to prevent this?

When people are being nice and reporting it using the suggested format and it is completely ignored what would you suggest to get someone's attention? At some point people's patience runs out.

[tessl]

Re: I hate to complain, but....

Wait a minute, you mean the game you played the player got stuck in the wall, like a video game? Hm, go figure the Show doing something like a VIDEO GAME! Hm, you got me there? Oh wait; that is right, it is a VIDEO GAME!

Right, it is a video game with a glitch that has been in the game for two years without being fixed. I guess I'm old school but I was taught if you are going to do a job, do it right.

[tessl]

Re: I hate to complain, but....

There was one out. If there was two outs it wouldn't have counted. A double play is optional so he is a free runner and if he crosses the plate before they turn the double play the run counts. No error or problem. You earned the run man. I'm 85% sure of this.

You are 15% right.

No run may score on an inning-ending play in which the third out is a force out or on the batter before he reaches first base. Put in other words, force outs count before runs are scored. It is common that a runner reaches home plate a moment before the third out is made by force out. Such a case is routine; the runner doesn't score but is counted as left on base.

[Chef Matt]

Re: I hate to complain, but....

So people think that the devs overlooked gameplay and franchise mode?

I must've gotten a special copy of the game then, because in my game..the gameplay is top notch and franchise mode is robust.

Me too CB, me too, lucky us eh?

I'm in the luck boat as well.

[Dreifort]

Re: I hate to complain, but....

It's not just that there are bugs. Some of these are bugs that existed last year, were reported last year in the bugs and glitches thread in the suggested format, and got no attention.

In manage mode the cpu takes over and manages the game for the user controlled team. That is a major problem for those who use that mode, was reported last year, remains unchanged. For example, in a recent game the cpu decided it was time for me to try a double steal with two out. Catcher running the bases at second gets thrown out at third, inning over. The first time that happens it is a nuiscance, the 50th time it is a problem. Nobody can tell me programmers can't figure out a way to prevent this from happening if they spend a little time on it.

At PNC park there is a glitch with the way the outfield wall is designed that leads to inside the park home runs in manage mode. Reported last year, reported in the first glitches thread this year, reported in the second glitches thread this year, still exists. For example, in a recent homestand at PNC this happened 4 times. If it happened once a year it wouldn't be an issue. Again, the new ballparks are great but how hard would it be to change the wall at PNC to prevent this?

When people are being nice and reporting it using the suggested format and it is completely ignored what would you suggest to get someone's attention? At some point people's patience runs out.

These are a few of the Manager Mode problems that keep me from playing The Show as much as I want to. Hitting is unreasonable for me to attempt on my 46" LCD....so I keep trying to use Manager Mode to enjoy a great looking The Show baseball game on my 46". But every game something stupid happens that causes me to quit the game and avoid for another 48 hrs.... unless I move my PS3 back to my 26" and play another mode.

Manager Mode is very unenjoyable. I was hoping it would have been improved, but no....and I have noticed a few more bugs in this mode in 10 ver than existed in 09 ver.