Wheelhouse + Perfect Timing + Perfect Stride = ...

[Manny_Shevitz]

Re: Wheelhouse + Perfect Timing + Perfect Stride = ...

Why don't you turn it off in the options menu and love the game for they way it plays instead of how it reads.

You sound like a cult member.

No, but seriously, I wish I could, man. I really do. In fact, I have turned all of the PCI and timing info off and tried to love the game for what it is, but for me the fun factor just isn't there. There's lots of stuff that I like about the game, and the new physics in 12 have really gone a long way to making me enjoy it more. But there's still a fun factor that's missing for me. It's not that I suck at the game, or have a losing record. I actually do pretty well. I'm not just complaining because I'm frustrated with my own performance in the game or just for the sake of complaining. I just have some issues with the way the hitting works in the game. Not everyone has to agree with me.

And Knight, what's the value in making a snarky comment like that? What good does it serve? I don't think he said that the hitting is completely random, and if he did, then I don't agree with that, but we do share some common opinions. I just don't see why you feel the need to respond by trying to make me look stupid, instead of just having a civil discussion about it. I'm not being disrespectful to anyone on this board, why do you feel the only way for you to defend your point is to be disrespectful to me?

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: Wheelhouse + Perfect Timing + Perfect Stride = ...

look at the pci as well if the ball is in the lower half, you still made great contact, but you hit it hard on the ground.

[EnigmaNemesis]

I am going I propose to the developers to gut the whole "timing/wheelhouse" UI from the game for next year.

That way people can stop beating a dead horse every single week when these very treads get closed (weekly) due to them not understanding the UI and what it means.

Games of the past didn't really have those UI cues and we got by just fine. After all, if the UI is not there to "confuse" gamers, they can not complain and argue against facts we repeat from the horses mouth. Pun intended.

[mikeq672]

Re: Wheelhouse + Perfect Timing + Perfect Stride = ...

Well....the guy that agrees with you thinks that the hitting is ENTIRELY random.
Good backup.

M.K.
Knight165

Gotta love people like you, ignore all the actual points but quote my exaggeration.

You guys are still completely ignoring the point. When I swing up and in, and the ball is low and away, how or why am I able to foul it off? Some times my timing is perfect though with the ball in the middle of the pci, yet it says i "just missed" Does that not seem completely random to you? I just want more consistency. I look forward to this game every year, this year I am disappointed, as are plenty of others. I dont want to bat .400, if I did I wouldnt have spent all this money on a playstation that I only use so i can play the show. I woulda stuck with playing that crap game that is 2k and hit 28 homeruns a game online.

I dont feel rewarded for making good contact. Sorry if that offends you guys.

I dont care if a 2 year old hits the ball, if he swings under it, it goes in the air, not on the ground.

And maybe I take the pci too literal, why the hell is it so obnoxiously large then?

[Manny_Shevitz]

Re: Wheelhouse + Perfect Timing + Perfect Stride = ...

I think one of the major disagreement here is how you think the game should implement the differences among in-game players and user skills. On one side is like you guys who feel very weird when your input and skills aren't directly reflected on the results in the game...

It's not as easy to do this, since you as a gamer tends to play in a certain way all the time, so if the game doesn't implement/force any rating differences among players, everyone in the game will end up hitting/pitching similarly. That will totally reflect your skills and input, but the end results will be nothing like simulation game.... Barry Bonds ends up hitting like Bill Pecota... not very satisfying.

Recently Brian@SCEA wrote that the outside pitch being pulled (i.e., early timing despite your feeling that you were actually late) is implemented by the game to simulate pull hitter. Because the game designer needs to think about how to deal with a case like this.... The player in-game is a dead pull hitter. But the gamer controlling him isn't necessarily trying to pull all the time... in fact quite often late.

So how do you deal with this? The game could either just use gamer input entirely... so if you are late, the player will be late. Or the game could add some forced tendency so that even when you are a bit late, the player in game can still pull the ball, in order to simulate how the player in game actually hits in real life... And what I read, the game is doing the latter. That's why with some players you end up hitting HR on an outside pitch, even when you feel a bit late on it.

It's a balance and design decision.

There's nothing you are saying that I disagree with here, and that's exactly my point. It is a balance and design decision, but one that doesn't quite work for me. That is ALL I am saying. If you're at all interested in my expanded thoughts on this, you should check out a certain thread I created over on the "Other Baseball Games" forum. You'll know it when you see it.

[HARTSTOPPER]

Re: Wheelhouse + Perfect Timing + Perfect Stride = ...

ZOMG!!! I CAN'T HIT 500 HOMERUNS IN ONE GAME WHEN I HAVE EVERYTHING TIMED! Go play MLB slugfest there guy. Leave real sim style baseball to the adults here.

Look at the best hitter in baseball (Albert Pujols). Look at his batting average.

.328 career BA. Know what that means? He averages roughly 3 hits out of every 10 at bats. I'm willing to bet an entire years worth of pay , that Pujols has grounded out or popped out on more than 1 fastball down the middle. It's going to happen. I've had people have okay contact, just late timing, and they took me deep. You don't see me crying and talking about slapping a developer.

[willIam9387]

Re: Wheelhouse + Perfect Timing + Perfect Stride = ...

I am going I propose to the developers to gut the whole "timing/wheelhouse" UI from the game for next year.

That way people can stop beating a dead horse every single week when these very treads get closed (weekly) due to them not understanding the UI and what it means.

Games of the past didn't really have those UI cues and we got by just fine. After all, if the UI is not there to "confuse" gamers, they can not complain and argue against facts we repeat from the horses mouth. Pun intended.

I like having the option of the "UI" and the option shouldn't be removed just because a small group of people are frustrated that the perceived optimal combo doesn't result in a homerun every time because baseball and arcade doesn't go well together, but baseball, simulation, and statistics does go well together. The Show captures that aspect of baseball well, the fact you might feel you squared up a pitch, but instead you only hit a dribbler down the line. The Show and baseball in general is all about delayed gratification, and if you're looking for instant gratification, you will be sorely disappointed.

My digression ends, but let's keep the UI for those who see its benefits as a learning tool.

[CRIP4LIFE]

Re: Wheelhouse + Perfect Timing + Perfect Stride = ...

And Knight, what's the value in making a snarky comment like that?

please no offense meant here. the last thing i want to be is snarky.

but, i think the reason he, and others, get frustrated is because you guys on the other side of this argument/debate keep offering opinion and feelings. the fact is knight said here:

....and neither do the devs as we've had discussions about this many times.
Problem is.....in order to help out the player and give feedback.....they open themselves up to incorrect perceptions like these.

that the developers who programmed this game told him that the batting system and it's visual clues work the way we are telling you it works.

so either knight is lying or the game devs are lying to knight OR, neither of them are lying and you are mistaken. those are THE only 3 options.

i think knight got snarky because he knows he isn't lying. he also knows the devs have no reason to lie. he also knows that what he sees in the game makes sense comparing it to what he's been told by the people who coded the game.

so there is only 1 logical option remaining. and a few people in this thread don't get that... shux, i'm about to get snarky myself!!!

[EnigmaNemesis]

I like having the option of the "UI" and the option shouldn't be removed just because a small group of people are frustrated that the perceived optimal combo doesn't result in a homerun every time because baseball and arcade doesn't go well together, but baseball, simulation, and statistics does go well together. The Show captures that aspect of baseball well, the fact you might feel you squared up a pitch, but instead you only hit a dribbler down the line. The Show and baseball in general is all about delayed gratification, and if you're looking for instant gratification, you will be sorely disappointed.

My digression ends, but let's keep the UI for those who see its benefits as a learning tool.

Don't worry, I was only being jest.

We are all definitely asking for options to turn off the UI components from the screen.

I never pay attention to the hitting UI personally (when I play), only when testing.

[Manny_Shevitz]

Re: Wheelhouse + Perfect Timing + Perfect Stride = ...

I like having the option of the "UI" and the option shouldn't be removed just because a small group of people are frustrated that the perceived optimal combo doesn't result in a homerun every time because baseball and arcade doesn't go well together, but baseball, simulation, and statistics does go well together. The Show captures that aspect of baseball well, the fact you might feel you squared up a pitch, but instead you only hit a dribbler down the line. The Show and baseball in general is all about delayed gratification, and if you're looking for instant gratification, you will be sorely disappointed.

My digression ends, but let's keep the UI for those who see its benefits as a learning tool.

Right, because that's exactly what we said. Those were our exact words. Show me the quote where one of us said we thought that an optimal swing should result in a homerun every time, or even most of the time.

[Manny_Shevitz]

Re: Wheelhouse + Perfect Timing + Perfect Stride = ...

please no offense meant here. the last thing i want to be is snarky.

but, i think the reason he, and others, get frustrated is because you guys on the other side of this argument/debate keep offering opinion and feelings. the fact is knight said here:

that the developers who programmed this game told him that the batting system and it's visual clues work the way we are telling you it works.

so either knight is lying or the game devs are lying to knight OR, neither of them are lying and you are mistaken. those are THE only 3 options.

i think knight got snarky because he knows he isn't lying. he also knows the devs have no reason to lie. he also knows that what he sees in the game makes sense comparing it to what he's been told by the people who coded the game.

so there is only 1 logical option remaining. and a few people in this thread don't get that... shux, i'm about to get snarky myself!!!

I don't think Knight is lying at all. This is where I think it's coming down to miscommunication. You seem to think I'm trying to deny facts. I'm not arguing facts. I'm not questioning whether the batting system works the way the developers intended for it to work. I'm sure it does. I know they know what they're doing. I just don't agree that it's the best system.

[Sigma4Life]

Re: Wheelhouse + Perfect Timing + Perfect Stride = ...

ZOMG!!! I CAN'T HIT 500 HOMERUNS IN ONE GAME WHEN I HAVE EVERYTHING TIMED! Go play MLB slugfest there guy. Leave real sim style baseball to the adults here.

Look at the best hitter in baseball (Albert Pujols). Look at his batting average.

.328 career BA. Know what that means? He averages roughly 3 hits out of every 10 at bats. I'm willing to bet an entire years worth of pay , that Pujols has grounded out or popped out on more than 1 fastball down the middle. It's going to happen. I've had people have okay contact, just late timing, and they took me deep. You don't see me crying and talking about slapping a developer.

If Pujols gets a fastball down the middle and he's right on it timing wise I guarantee you he hits much higher than 0.328 in that situation. 9 times out of 10 if he has perfect timing on any pitch down the middle he's hitting a rocket somewhere. Not necessarily a home run, and not necessarily a hit since it could be a sharp line drive at someone. The point is the ball will be hit hard. It won't end with a weak grounder at an infielder very often.

In contrast if you get him to swing early at a slider down and away he's much more likely to hit it weakly somewhere.

I have heard the game plays better offline. I only play online and therefore the OP is focused on that game mode only.

[mikeq672]

Re: Wheelhouse + Perfect Timing + Perfect Stride = ...

I have heard the game plays better offline. I only play online and therefore the OP is focused on that game mode only.

My crappy RTTS guy I can hit just perfectly with, not in franchise mode with actual good hitters though. Just makes no sense to me.

[Sigma4Life]

Re: Wheelhouse + Perfect Timing + Perfect Stride = ...

For everyone defending the hitting system post your online record and HR total. The proof is in the stats. I bet there is not a single person on this message board that plays on all-star or above that averages 1 HR per game online.

The average MLB team in 2011 hit 154 HRs which means on average every team in the league hit 1 HR per game. MLB 12 online doesn't come close to simulating real baseball in this respect.

If I'm wrong PROVE IT! Post you online record and HR total with your gamer ID for verification.

[CRIP4LIFE]

Re: Wheelhouse + Perfect Timing + Perfect Stride = ...

9 times out of 10 if he has perfect timing on any pitch down the middle he's hitting a rocket somewhere.

first of all, i'd like to see the stats where you gleaned this information.

secondly, it has already been established that 'mlb the show' never ever tells you if you got perfect contact. it has further been established that the game gives generalized feedback, not exact feedback. finally, it has been established that within this generalized feedback are many, many minute calculations that directly influence a balls trajectory.

oh, and also, on top of all of these established facts, a developer told you directly that the wind online is broken.

how does it help for you to continuously insist upon providing placebo in the light of all these facts?