NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, HELL FREAK HELL NO NO NO!

[AI_Franchise03]

Re: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, HELL FREAK HELL NO NO NO!

I could stress out all the reason why we shouldn't deal him away, but I'll just make it fast and simple.
Why trade for Beltran, and better yet give up Sori for him? Beltran is a FA next year, so see how he does this year, and make a push for him in the FA next winter. Not many can afford the type of contract he is asking for. By waiting, you will find out if whether his last season(2003) was a breakout year, or has he really gotten better. We can survive this season without him in CF. That's it, it's all plain and simple.
Better question, since you(dce) think that Beltran has matured this season, which supposedly showed in his BB/K ratio, has Jose Guillen also matured? Both of them had breakout years.

[dieselboy]

Re: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, HELL FREAK HELL NO NO NO!

Beltran is a great player.

I would hate to see him in pinstripes.

[dieselboy]

Re: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, HELL FREAK HELL NO NO NO!

Beltran is a great player.

I would hate to see him in pinstripes.

[dieselboy]

Re: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, HELL FREAK HELL NO NO NO!

Beltran is a great player.

I would hate to see him in pinstripes.

[dce1228]

Re: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, HELL FREAK HELL NO NO NO!

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:
I could stress out all the reason why we shouldn't deal him away, but I'll just make it fast and simple.
Why trade for Beltran, and better yet give up Sori for him? Beltran is a FA next year, so see how he does this year, and make a push for him in the FA next winter. Not many can afford the type of contract he is asking for. By waiting, you will find out if whether his last season(2003) was a breakout year, or has he really gotten better. We can survive this season without him in CF. That's it, it's all plain and simple.
Better question, since you(dce) think that Beltran has matured this season, which supposedly showed in his BB/K ratio, has Jose Guillen also matured? Both of them had breakout years.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Well, I disagree that last year was Beltran's breakout year. It was the first year he sported an OPS over .900 but his previous two seasons were no slouches. As for Guillen, I took a look at his numbers expecting to see that he'd increased his walks but he's still the free-swinger he's always been, so I don't see why you're grouping them together. Beltran has been a stud for several seasons now. Guillen has been a disappointment up until this season. I assure you the chances of Beltran having a fourth straight excellent season are far better than Guillen having his second productive season of his 7 year career. AI, have you seriously taken a look at Beltran's numbers? Because if you're comparing him to Jose Guillen you obviously haven't.

Not only does Beltran put up the power numbers, he's also what is called a great percentage player. Beltran stole 41 bases, but he also led the AL with a .911 stealing percentage among guys with 11 or more steals. As I mentioned, he struck-out only 9 times more than he walked. He grounded into approximately 7 double-plays all season... etc. He puts up the fantasy numbers and also the secondary numbers.

However, I agree with your point about his pending free agency. Why trade a huge piece like Soriano for a guy you could get for free the following season. Every player that hits the free-agent market has to be considered a possible skank, that's just the lay of the land. The Yanks have the recources to sign just about anyone who hits that market... so, yeah. On that basis I see how it could be a bad trade. But player for player I'd take Beltran over Soriano 9 times out of 10, and maybe even one more.

[dce1228]

Re: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, HELL FREAK HELL NO NO NO!

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:
I could stress out all the reason why we shouldn't deal him away, but I'll just make it fast and simple.
Why trade for Beltran, and better yet give up Sori for him? Beltran is a FA next year, so see how he does this year, and make a push for him in the FA next winter. Not many can afford the type of contract he is asking for. By waiting, you will find out if whether his last season(2003) was a breakout year, or has he really gotten better. We can survive this season without him in CF. That's it, it's all plain and simple.
Better question, since you(dce) think that Beltran has matured this season, which supposedly showed in his BB/K ratio, has Jose Guillen also matured? Both of them had breakout years.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Well, I disagree that last year was Beltran's breakout year. It was the first year he sported an OPS over .900 but his previous two seasons were no slouches. As for Guillen, I took a look at his numbers expecting to see that he'd increased his walks but he's still the free-swinger he's always been, so I don't see why you're grouping them together. Beltran has been a stud for several seasons now. Guillen has been a disappointment up until this season. I assure you the chances of Beltran having a fourth straight excellent season are far better than Guillen having his second productive season of his 7 year career. AI, have you seriously taken a look at Beltran's numbers? Because if you're comparing him to Jose Guillen you obviously haven't.

Not only does Beltran put up the power numbers, he's also what is called a great percentage player. Beltran stole 41 bases, but he also led the AL with a .911 stealing percentage among guys with 11 or more steals. As I mentioned, he struck-out only 9 times more than he walked. He grounded into approximately 7 double-plays all season... etc. He puts up the fantasy numbers and also the secondary numbers.

However, I agree with your point about his pending free agency. Why trade a huge piece like Soriano for a guy you could get for free the following season. Every player that hits the free-agent market has to be considered a possible skank, that's just the lay of the land. The Yanks have the recources to sign just about anyone who hits that market... so, yeah. On that basis I see how it could be a bad trade. But player for player I'd take Beltran over Soriano 9 times out of 10, and maybe even one more.

[dce1228]

Re: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, HELL FREAK HELL NO NO NO!

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:
I could stress out all the reason why we shouldn't deal him away, but I'll just make it fast and simple.
Why trade for Beltran, and better yet give up Sori for him? Beltran is a FA next year, so see how he does this year, and make a push for him in the FA next winter. Not many can afford the type of contract he is asking for. By waiting, you will find out if whether his last season(2003) was a breakout year, or has he really gotten better. We can survive this season without him in CF. That's it, it's all plain and simple.
Better question, since you(dce) think that Beltran has matured this season, which supposedly showed in his BB/K ratio, has Jose Guillen also matured? Both of them had breakout years.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Well, I disagree that last year was Beltran's breakout year. It was the first year he sported an OPS over .900 but his previous two seasons were no slouches. As for Guillen, I took a look at his numbers expecting to see that he'd increased his walks but he's still the free-swinger he's always been, so I don't see why you're grouping them together. Beltran has been a stud for several seasons now. Guillen has been a disappointment up until this season. I assure you the chances of Beltran having a fourth straight excellent season are far better than Guillen having his second productive season of his 7 year career. AI, have you seriously taken a look at Beltran's numbers? Because if you're comparing him to Jose Guillen you obviously haven't.

Not only does Beltran put up the power numbers, he's also what is called a great percentage player. Beltran stole 41 bases, but he also led the AL with a .911 stealing percentage among guys with 11 or more steals. As I mentioned, he struck-out only 9 times more than he walked. He grounded into approximately 7 double-plays all season... etc. He puts up the fantasy numbers and also the secondary numbers.

However, I agree with your point about his pending free agency. Why trade a huge piece like Soriano for a guy you could get for free the following season. Every player that hits the free-agent market has to be considered a possible skank, that's just the lay of the land. The Yanks have the recources to sign just about anyone who hits that market... so, yeah. On that basis I see how it could be a bad trade. But player for player I'd take Beltran over Soriano 9 times out of 10, and maybe even one more.

[AI_Franchise03]

Re: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, HELL FREAK HELL NO NO NO!

Sori's first 3 seasons are similar to Beltran's. He had the same problem (SO) as Beltran early in his career. Their career OPS are Beltran - .829, Sori - .824.
Beltran's stats are better at home than it is on the road, and it's the opposite with Sori.
Both of them are poor hitters with the count of 2 strikes.
Finally, we know that Soriano can handle playing in NY, and if he can't, just imagine how he'll do somewhere else, but we don't know about Beltran. I have heard he is the hypersensitive one.

Also, check out this ESPN scouting report on Beltran:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Carlos Beltran: Hitting
Beltran has the ability to hit for both power and average. He gradually has begun to trade some contact hitting for power by using more of an uppercut swing and becoming even more aggressive at the plate. He has a compact swing, which helps him make nice contact even though he lacks good strike-zone judgment. He looks fastball on every pitch and will chase bad breaking balls, especially down and away. Beltran handles all kinds of pitchers well, though he's displayed more power against finesse pitchers. He also had trouble against lefties last year, something that had not been a problem in the past. Opponents should avoid throwing a first-pitch fastball. He's a career .349 hitter when he puts the first pitch in play.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Sounds a lot like Soriano.

P.S. This season, Carlos had a breakout year, by going from .847 to .911 OPS.

[AI_Franchise03]

Re: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, HELL FREAK HELL NO NO NO!

Sori's first 3 seasons are similar to Beltran's. He had the same problem (SO) as Beltran early in his career. Their career OPS are Beltran - .829, Sori - .824.
Beltran's stats are better at home than it is on the road, and it's the opposite with Sori.
Both of them are poor hitters with the count of 2 strikes.
Finally, we know that Soriano can handle playing in NY, and if he can't, just imagine how he'll do somewhere else, but we don't know about Beltran. I have heard he is the hypersensitive one.

Also, check out this ESPN scouting report on Beltran:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Carlos Beltran: Hitting
Beltran has the ability to hit for both power and average. He gradually has begun to trade some contact hitting for power by using more of an uppercut swing and becoming even more aggressive at the plate. He has a compact swing, which helps him make nice contact even though he lacks good strike-zone judgment. He looks fastball on every pitch and will chase bad breaking balls, especially down and away. Beltran handles all kinds of pitchers well, though he's displayed more power against finesse pitchers. He also had trouble against lefties last year, something that had not been a problem in the past. Opponents should avoid throwing a first-pitch fastball. He's a career .349 hitter when he puts the first pitch in play.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Sounds a lot like Soriano.

P.S. This season, Carlos had a breakout year, by going from .847 to .911 OPS.

[AI_Franchise03]

Re: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, HELL FREAK HELL NO NO NO!

Sori's first 3 seasons are similar to Beltran's. He had the same problem (SO) as Beltran early in his career. Their career OPS are Beltran - .829, Sori - .824.
Beltran's stats are better at home than it is on the road, and it's the opposite with Sori.
Both of them are poor hitters with the count of 2 strikes.
Finally, we know that Soriano can handle playing in NY, and if he can't, just imagine how he'll do somewhere else, but we don't know about Beltran. I have heard he is the hypersensitive one.

Also, check out this ESPN scouting report on Beltran:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Carlos Beltran: Hitting
Beltran has the ability to hit for both power and average. He gradually has begun to trade some contact hitting for power by using more of an uppercut swing and becoming even more aggressive at the plate. He has a compact swing, which helps him make nice contact even though he lacks good strike-zone judgment. He looks fastball on every pitch and will chase bad breaking balls, especially down and away. Beltran handles all kinds of pitchers well, though he's displayed more power against finesse pitchers. He also had trouble against lefties last year, something that had not been a problem in the past. Opponents should avoid throwing a first-pitch fastball. He's a career .349 hitter when he puts the first pitch in play.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Sounds a lot like Soriano.

P.S. This season, Carlos had a breakout year, by going from .847 to .911 OPS.

[CMH]

Re: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, HELL FREAK HELL NO NO NO!

I'd do it in a heart beat.

The World Series was an exhibition to Soriano's weaknesses and I really feel that teams will begin to exploit these weakenesses next year.

It is no mistake that Soriano is hot in the first half and then falls off in the second half.

IMO, Soriano is another Jose Cruz, Jr. waiting to happen. Soriano can't hit a breaking pitch and the World Series proved that three straight sliders low and away will sit Soriano down quicker than a no-name contact hitter rounding the bases after a homerun.

I think Soriano is done. UNLESS he can learn to be patient. But, it just seems like Soriano is unwilling to learn this important attribute.

[CMH]

Re: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, HELL FREAK HELL NO NO NO!

I'd do it in a heart beat.

The World Series was an exhibition to Soriano's weaknesses and I really feel that teams will begin to exploit these weakenesses next year.

It is no mistake that Soriano is hot in the first half and then falls off in the second half.

IMO, Soriano is another Jose Cruz, Jr. waiting to happen. Soriano can't hit a breaking pitch and the World Series proved that three straight sliders low and away will sit Soriano down quicker than a no-name contact hitter rounding the bases after a homerun.

I think Soriano is done. UNLESS he can learn to be patient. But, it just seems like Soriano is unwilling to learn this important attribute.

[CMH]

Re: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, HELL FREAK HELL NO NO NO!

I'd do it in a heart beat.

The World Series was an exhibition to Soriano's weaknesses and I really feel that teams will begin to exploit these weakenesses next year.

It is no mistake that Soriano is hot in the first half and then falls off in the second half.

IMO, Soriano is another Jose Cruz, Jr. waiting to happen. Soriano can't hit a breaking pitch and the World Series proved that three straight sliders low and away will sit Soriano down quicker than a no-name contact hitter rounding the bases after a homerun.

I think Soriano is done. UNLESS he can learn to be patient. But, it just seems like Soriano is unwilling to learn this important attribute.

[dce1228]

Re: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, HELL FREAK HELL NO NO NO!

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:

P.S. This season, Carlos had a breakout year, by going from .847 to .911 OPS.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

No, AI. Just because this is the first time you've heard of Beltran doesn't mean it's his 'breakout season'. Yeah, his OPS went up 50 points. It was also at .876 in 2001. Hank Blaylock's OPS rose from .632 to .872 this season-- THAT is a breakout season. Derek Jeter's OPS rose from .794 to .844... I guess this last season was Jeter's break-out year, too? No, it wasn't. And this wasn't Beltran's break-out year either. He's been great for a while now. Glad you've noticed.

The scouting report above leaves out one important factor. DEFENSE. Soriano sucks. Beltran plays a premium position and plays it above average. And I'll say it again, just because he's getting older doesn't mean Soriano is going to mature. Beltran showed improvements, obviously, in his plate discipline and pitch recognition-- the numbers show it. The numbers show Soriano swings at everything. All the time. We've all seen him enough to know he makes no adjustments at the plate. I think I'm on the same page as the Yankee brass and a good portion of their fan base when I make the assertion that he never will mature at the plate.

[dce1228]

Re: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, HELL FREAK HELL NO NO NO!

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:

P.S. This season, Carlos had a breakout year, by going from .847 to .911 OPS.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

No, AI. Just because this is the first time you've heard of Beltran doesn't mean it's his 'breakout season'. Yeah, his OPS went up 50 points. It was also at .876 in 2001. Hank Blaylock's OPS rose from .632 to .872 this season-- THAT is a breakout season. Derek Jeter's OPS rose from .794 to .844... I guess this last season was Jeter's break-out year, too? No, it wasn't. And this wasn't Beltran's break-out year either. He's been great for a while now. Glad you've noticed.

The scouting report above leaves out one important factor. DEFENSE. Soriano sucks. Beltran plays a premium position and plays it above average. And I'll say it again, just because he's getting older doesn't mean Soriano is going to mature. Beltran showed improvements, obviously, in his plate discipline and pitch recognition-- the numbers show it. The numbers show Soriano swings at everything. All the time. We've all seen him enough to know he makes no adjustments at the plate. I think I'm on the same page as the Yankee brass and a good portion of their fan base when I make the assertion that he never will mature at the plate.