Pete Rose should not be reinstated

[Lex]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

Youre SOOO right! There is no halfway here. He should be banned in the same fashion others before him have been-- no exceptions.

Here is the problem with letting him in as a player but not as a manager. If you are going to have a rule as a deterrent for gambling then it must be applied across the board. If you let someone in for what they did as a player then it ceases to be a deterrent. No way, should he be let in. Why even have rules at all? How is it they can really draw the line with steroids, corked bats etc if they give ground with this. There is something sacrosanct about watching a game and knowing its authentic that supercedes any accomplishment by any one player. It truly is whats best for the game. This sort of thing is not always easy to see because we live in a world that too often puts the right of an individual over the rights of the whole. Part of its the media, and part of its the letigous society we live in. Every one who is arguing based on Roses accomplishment have been conditioned by this. Its easy to just look at stats and say its not fair that hes not in but its really far more complicated than that because of the underlying erosion of the fabric of the game which ero

d mentioned.

BTW-- If they let Rose in then Shoeless Joe Jackson's family should consider suing based on lost income etc.

Also, lets not forget the meathead collision with Fossey in a meaningless game that, it could be said, ended Fosseys potential hall of fame career. For that alone Pete Rose should be banned but there are no rules in existence for that so Ill defer to the gambling as a reason that he should be banned.

[SPTO]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Lex said:
Youre SOOO right! There is no halfway here. He should be banned in the same fashion others before him have been-- no exceptions.

Here is the problem with letting him in as a player but not as a manager. If you are going to have a rule as a deterrent for gambling then it must be applied across the board. If you let someone in for what they did as a player then it ceases to be a deterrent. No way, should he be let in. Why even have rules at all? How is it they can really draw the line with steroids, corked bats etc if they give ground with this. There is something sacrosanct about watching a game and knowing its authentic that supercedes any accomplishment by any one player. It truly is whats best for the game. This sort of thing is not always easy to see because we live in a world that too often puts the right of an individual over the rights of the whole. Part of its the media, and part of its the letigous society we live in. Every one who is arguing based on Roses accomplishment have been conditioned by this. Its easy to just look at stats and say its not fair that hes not in but its really far more complicated than that because of the underlying erosion of the fabric of the game which erod mentioned.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Good post however I can just as easily say the game isn't even close to being pure. Heck it isn't even as pure as it was 30-40 yrs ago. Players today are bulking up via suspicious methods, ballparks have increasingly become smaller in order to keep the long balls going at an ungodly rate, the mound has been raised just because pitchers had the upper hand in 1968, and economics have become a far bigger influence on what determines a good team.

If there are people that want "shoeless" Joe Jackson in the hall then there should be every right for Rose to be in there as well. Look we wouldn't be having this argument if Rose hadn't brokered a deal with Giamati. Rose would still be blackballed and there would be no sympathy for him based on the overflowing evidence against the guy.

I still think that he should be in the Hall as it's a total shame that the all-time hits leader isn't represented for generations to come. If Rose is never to be in the Hall then MLB should strike down all his records or put a huge asterisk to them.

[SPTO]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Lex said:
Youre SOOO right! There is no halfway here. He should be banned in the same fashion others before him have been-- no exceptions.

Here is the problem with letting him in as a player but not as a manager. If you are going to have a rule as a deterrent for gambling then it must be applied across the board. If you let someone in for what they did as a player then it ceases to be a deterrent. No way, should he be let in. Why even have rules at all? How is it they can really draw the line with steroids, corked bats etc if they give ground with this. There is something sacrosanct about watching a game and knowing its authentic that supercedes any accomplishment by any one player. It truly is whats best for the game. This sort of thing is not always easy to see because we live in a world that too often puts the right of an individual over the rights of the whole. Part of its the media, and part of its the letigous society we live in. Every one who is arguing based on Roses accomplishment have been conditioned by this. Its easy to just look at stats and say its not fair that hes not in but its really far more complicated than that because of the underlying erosion of the fabric of the game which erod mentioned.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Good post however I can just as easily say the game isn't even close to being pure. Heck it isn't even as pure as it was 30-40 yrs ago. Players today are bulking up via suspicious methods, ballparks have increasingly become smaller in order to keep the long balls going at an ungodly rate, the mound has been raised just because pitchers had the upper hand in 1968, and economics have become a far bigger influence on what determines a good team.

If there are people that want "shoeless" Joe Jackson in the hall then there should be every right for Rose to be in there as well. Look we wouldn't be having this argument if Rose hadn't brokered a deal with Giamati. Rose would still be blackballed and there would be no sympathy for him based on the overflowing evidence against the guy.

I still think that he should be in the Hall as it's a total shame that the all-time hits leader isn't represented for generations to come. If Rose is never to be in the Hall then MLB should strike down all his records or put a huge asterisk to them.

[SPTO]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Lex said:
Youre SOOO right! There is no halfway here. He should be banned in the same fashion others before him have been-- no exceptions.

Here is the problem with letting him in as a player but not as a manager. If you are going to have a rule as a deterrent for gambling then it must be applied across the board. If you let someone in for what they did as a player then it ceases to be a deterrent. No way, should he be let in. Why even have rules at all? How is it they can really draw the line with steroids, corked bats etc if they give ground with this. There is something sacrosanct about watching a game and knowing its authentic that supercedes any accomplishment by any one player. It truly is whats best for the game. This sort of thing is not always easy to see because we live in a world that too often puts the right of an individual over the rights of the whole. Part of its the media, and part of its the letigous society we live in. Every one who is arguing based on Roses accomplishment have been conditioned by this. Its easy to just look at stats and say its not fair that hes not in but its really far more complicated than that because of the underlying erosion of the fabric of the game which erod mentioned.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Good post however I can just as easily say the game isn't even close to being pure. Heck it isn't even as pure as it was 30-40 yrs ago. Players today are bulking up via suspicious methods, ballparks have increasingly become smaller in order to keep the long balls going at an ungodly rate, the mound has been raised just because pitchers had the upper hand in 1968, and economics have become a far bigger influence on what determines a good team.

If there are people that want "shoeless" Joe Jackson in the hall then there should be every right for Rose to be in there as well. Look we wouldn't be having this argument if Rose hadn't brokered a deal with Giamati. Rose would still be blackballed and there would be no sympathy for him based on the overflowing evidence against the guy.

I still think that he should be in the Hall as it's a total shame that the all-time hits leader isn't represented for generations to come. If Rose is never to be in the Hall then MLB should strike down all his records or put a huge asterisk to them.

[Lex]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

I still think that he should be in the Hall as it's a total shame that the all-time hits leader isn't represented for generations to come. If Rose is never to be in the Hall then MLB should strike down all his records or put a huge asterisk to them.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Thats where you are wrong. Future generations are best served by seeing that he was banned. More is to be learned if he kids see that rules mean something and that "me first" is not ok in EVERY aspect of life.

They dont need to asterisk anything for the sole purpose of reconciling him not being there. Again, its good that people learn that if you are a selfish SOB who acts like rules dont apply to you then you pay the price.

[Lex]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

I still think that he should be in the Hall as it's a total shame that the all-time hits leader isn't represented for generations to come. If Rose is never to be in the Hall then MLB should strike down all his records or put a huge asterisk to them.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Thats where you are wrong. Future generations are best served by seeing that he was banned. More is to be learned if he kids see that rules mean something and that "me first" is not ok in EVERY aspect of life.

They dont need to asterisk anything for the sole purpose of reconciling him not being there. Again, its good that people learn that if you are a selfish SOB who acts like rules dont apply to you then you pay the price.

[Lex]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

I still think that he should be in the Hall as it's a total shame that the all-time hits leader isn't represented for generations to come. If Rose is never to be in the Hall then MLB should strike down all his records or put a huge asterisk to them.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Thats where you are wrong. Future generations are best served by seeing that he was banned. More is to be learned if he kids see that rules mean something and that "me first" is not ok in EVERY aspect of life.

They dont need to asterisk anything for the sole purpose of reconciling him not being there. Again, its good that people learn that if you are a selfish SOB who acts like rules dont apply to you then you pay the price.

[dieselboy]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

After watching the Sports Center story on it all, my opinion has changed.

I always thought he should be in the HOF, but now I don't think he should be reinstated. According to ESPN, in his book, he never ONCE appologizes to fans, the team, or the rest of MLB for lying and betting. Plus, by writing that book, he is going to make loads of money, and I think thats all Rose cares about.

He should not be able to manage in this league, and thats all he really wants to do.

Banned for life.

[dieselboy]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

After watching the Sports Center story on it all, my opinion has changed.

I always thought he should be in the HOF, but now I don't think he should be reinstated. According to ESPN, in his book, he never ONCE appologizes to fans, the team, or the rest of MLB for lying and betting. Plus, by writing that book, he is going to make loads of money, and I think thats all Rose cares about.

He should not be able to manage in this league, and thats all he really wants to do.

Banned for life.

[dieselboy]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

After watching the Sports Center story on it all, my opinion has changed.

I always thought he should be in the HOF, but now I don't think he should be reinstated. According to ESPN, in his book, he never ONCE appologizes to fans, the team, or the rest of MLB for lying and betting. Plus, by writing that book, he is going to make loads of money, and I think thats all Rose cares about.

He should not be able to manage in this league, and thats all he really wants to do.

Banned for life.

[SPTO]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

Actually he says in his book that in October of 2002 he told Bud Selig that he bet on baseball and on his team.

Lex we obviously have a difference in opinion and that's fine. You bring up a lot of good points it's just that the hits record doesn't mean anything to me now if he's never going to be recognized for his accomplishment. Other HOFs have put in shady ppl with bad reputations/personalities. I will respect your opinion tho.

It's good to see a passionate baseball fan like you on the boards

[SPTO]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

Actually he says in his book that in October of 2002 he told Bud Selig that he bet on baseball and on his team.

Lex we obviously have a difference in opinion and that's fine. You bring up a lot of good points it's just that the hits record doesn't mean anything to me now if he's never going to be recognized for his accomplishment. Other HOFs have put in shady ppl with bad reputations/personalities. I will respect your opinion tho.

It's good to see a passionate baseball fan like you on the boards

[SPTO]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

Actually he says in his book that in October of 2002 he told Bud Selig that he bet on baseball and on his team.

Lex we obviously have a difference in opinion and that's fine. You bring up a lot of good points it's just that the hits record doesn't mean anything to me now if he's never going to be recognized for his accomplishment. Other HOFs have put in shady ppl with bad reputations/personalities. I will respect your opinion tho.

It's good to see a passionate baseball fan like you on the boards

[Lex]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

Fair enough. BTW, I agree with you that purity is thrown out the window and that is a grievence I had. When Selig chooses to expand the playoffs its creating a long term problem and a short term solution. By that I mean he wanted to spike the ratings for the playoffs but in effect what he has done is make the regular season less meaningful-- a long term problem. And we all know thats just the tip of the iceberg as you mentioned some instances. In $hitting on the purists they might be killing their fanbase or at the very least robbing Peter to pay Paul. The gambling is sacrosanct though.

Other sports may not have such a moral clause in the HOF and to some it may seem arbitrary but again the legitimacy of competition is sacrosanct and many other sports havent been rocked to the core as baseball was in 1920. The fact is that Football has dealt severely by banning a player for a year but the NFL as a league may not have been in as much trouble as baseball was in 1920 with teh blacksox. The point is that if the rules are known by the players then they have no complaint if they get banned.

[Lex]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

Fair enough. BTW, I agree with you that purity is thrown out the window and that is a grievence I had. When Selig chooses to expand the playoffs its creating a long term problem and a short term solution. By that I mean he wanted to spike the ratings for the playoffs but in effect what he has done is make the regular season less meaningful-- a long term problem. And we all know thats just the tip of the iceberg as you mentioned some instances. In $hitting on the purists they might be killing their fanbase or at the very least robbing Peter to pay Paul. The gambling is sacrosanct though.

Other sports may not have such a moral clause in the HOF and to some it may seem arbitrary but again the legitimacy of competition is sacrosanct and many other sports havent been rocked to the core as baseball was in 1920. The fact is that Football has dealt severely by banning a player for a year but the NFL as a league may not have been in as much trouble as baseball was in 1920 with teh blacksox. The point is that if the rules are known by the players then they have no complaint if they get banned.