Bonds before and after

[jpup]

Re: Bonds before and after

this isn't just about Barry Bonds. This is about the most prestigous records in sports. The single season HR record and the career HR record. Baseball is America's pastime and those two records are, again, very prestigous. I was very dissapointed when the media didn't make as much of a deal about Barry's chase of McGwire as they previously did for McGwire's chase of Maris. I think that the reason was because the timing was so close, it brought into question all of these things, from Roids to smaller parks, harder bats, juiced balls and on and on.

For the last time, this has nothing to do with race. If Jr. Griffey was in Bonds shoes right now, the media would be eating it up.

I firmly believe that Barry Bonds used steroids, I didn't want to because he has been my favorite player for 15 years(Eric Davis notwithstanding). If Bonds did not use steroids, he would freely discuss the issue just like Jr. has. No one has ever disputed Jr.'s word and no one ever will. Barry Bonds was the best player, imo, even while Griffey was going good in Seattle, but you don't get that much better that fast without doing something. Do steroids make you a better baseball player? None of us know that answer, but age certainly doesn't once you hit your peak. I think that pride caused Barry to start using performance enhancing drugs. I don't believe he wanted to be outdone by Sammy Sosa or Mark McGwire.

Finally, I hope that Barry Bonds continues to play and passes the records set by Ruth and Aaron. I truly believe that Bonds is better than either one of them. In 5 years, we may be saying that Alex Rodriguez is better than any of them.

[bigmark]

Re: Bonds before and after

I think its hilarious everyone in here acts like they've never cheated or lied to get something they wanted. Or maybe you still think its not cheating until you get caught.

First off no one sat here and called you names for sticking by your opinion, littlemark. Nobody is in denial, nor is anyone making straw man arguements.
.

"Yeah, but Joe Scrub from the Minor Leagues isn't hitting 70 HR's. Bonds has good hand-eye coordination and he's better than most players without steroids".

Again, any defense of Bonds I have ever heard (this thread included) has included these two basic points. If that's not a straw-man, then I don't know what is.

If you must know my life story, I cheated on my French final in High School, and I frequently lie to girls I meet in bars. I did the former because I didn't like failing, the latter because I'm a guy. If that disqualify's me for criticizing bloating overpaid egomaniac athletes who feel the need to break the law and cheat despite already being millionares...then whatever.

I'd be more open to differing viewpoints if we were talking about your honest opinion - but - the only people who agree with you are Giants fans, and professional athletes - have you ever noticed that? Life is more than sports; try thinking for yourself rather than thinking backwards so that it fits the conclusion you want to believe as it relates to your favorite team. As a Bills fan, Lord knows I did that with O.J. Simpson.

[bigmark]

Re: Bonds before and after

I think its hilarious everyone in here acts like they've never cheated or lied to get something they wanted. Or maybe you still think its not cheating until you get caught.

First off no one sat here and called you names for sticking by your opinion, littlemark. Nobody is in denial, nor is anyone making straw man arguements.
.

"Yeah, but Joe Scrub from the Minor Leagues isn't hitting 70 HR's. Bonds has good hand-eye coordination and he's better than most players without steroids".

Again, any defense of Bonds I have ever heard (this thread included) has included these two basic points. If that's not a straw-man, then I don't know what is.

If you must know my life story, I cheated on my French final in High School, and I frequently lie to girls I meet in bars. I did the former because I didn't like failing, the latter because I'm a guy. If that disqualify's me for criticizing bloating overpaid egomaniac athletes who feel the need to break the law and cheat despite already being millionares...then whatever.

I'd be more open to differing viewpoints if we were talking about your honest opinion - but - the only people who agree with you are Giants fans, and professional athletes - have you ever noticed that? Life is more than sports; try thinking for yourself rather than thinking backwards so that it fits the conclusion you want to believe as it relates to your favorite team. As a Bills fan, Lord knows I did that with O.J. Simpson.

[mvb34]

Re: Bonds before and after

dacuby's is exactly right. My Automotive techer was a professinoal body-builder. And he never used steroids. He has a photo of himself when he was at his largest, and he was big, but he said to get to that size, he worked out 10 hours a day, 5-7 days a week. And after working out he said he could barely operate the TV. There's NO WAY someone can get that kind of muscle mass, and growth, and be able to play 162 games a year, in a physical sport. ESPECIALLY at the age of 40+

I doubt Bonds and other players lift weights that much during the season..

[mvb34]

Re: Bonds before and after

dacuby's is exactly right. My Automotive techer was a professinoal body-builder. And he never used steroids. He has a photo of himself when he was at his largest, and he was big, but he said to get to that size, he worked out 10 hours a day, 5-7 days a week. And after working out he said he could barely operate the TV. There's NO WAY someone can get that kind of muscle mass, and growth, and be able to play 162 games a year, in a physical sport. ESPECIALLY at the age of 40+

I doubt Bonds and other players lift weights that much during the season..

[PSU]

Re: Bonds before and after

bonds is on or was previously on roids, its as simple as that. to be honest with u i could care less if players use steroids, its just the fact that bonds lies and tries to put on a show for everyone. hes now bringing his kid in for sympathy!

[PSU]

Re: Bonds before and after

bonds is on or was previously on roids, its as simple as that. to be honest with u i could care less if players use steroids, its just the fact that bonds lies and tries to put on a show for everyone. hes now bringing his kid in for sympathy!

[p2xgamers]

Re: Bonds before and after

Finally, I hope that Barry Bonds continues to play and passes the records set by Ruth and Aaron. I truly believe that Bonds is better than either one of them. In 5 years, we may be saying that Alex Rodriguez is better than any of them.

I agreed with you right up until then. Ruth was a good pitcher, one of the best power hitters and yeah he was extremely slow (unlike Bonds) but I think Ruth is a MUCH better player.

[p2xgamers]

Re: Bonds before and after

Finally, I hope that Barry Bonds continues to play and passes the records set by Ruth and Aaron. I truly believe that Bonds is better than either one of them. In 5 years, we may be saying that Alex Rodriguez is better than any of them.

I agreed with you right up until then. Ruth was a good pitcher, one of the best power hitters and yeah he was extremely slow (unlike Bonds) but I think Ruth is a MUCH better player.

[SPTO]

Re: Bonds before and after

Conspiracy Theory via The FAN 590 here in Toronto:

We saw all the heat generated by the Steroids hearing then Bonds mysteriously hits his knee against a table and is out for half a year/full year. Something's fishy here. Bonds must've saw the warning signs and found a way to avoid the heat. He will probably come back considerably lighter and will blame that on his knees.

[SPTO]

Re: Bonds before and after

Conspiracy Theory via The FAN 590 here in Toronto:

We saw all the heat generated by the Steroids hearing then Bonds mysteriously hits his knee against a table and is out for half a year/full year. Something's fishy here. Bonds must've saw the warning signs and found a way to avoid the heat. He will probably come back considerably lighter and will blame that on his knees.

[USCTrojan83]

Re: Bonds before and after

"Yeah, but Joe Scrub from the Minor Leagues isn't hitting 70 HR's. Bonds has good hand-eye coordination and he's better than most players without steroids".

Again, any defense of Bonds I have ever heard (this thread included) has included these two basic points. If that's not a straw-man, then I don't know what is.

If you must know my life story, I cheated on my French final in High School, and I frequently lie to girls I meet in bars. I did the former because I didn't like failing, the latter because I'm a guy. If that disqualify's me for criticizing bloating overpaid egomaniac athletes who feel the need to break the law and cheat despite already being millionares...then whatever.

I'd be more open to differing viewpoints if we were talking about your honest opinion - but - the only people who agree with you are Giants fans, and professional athletes - have you ever noticed that? Life is more than sports; try thinking for yourself rather than thinking backwards so that it fits the conclusion you want to believe as it relates to your favorite team. As a Bills fan, Lord knows I did that with O.J. Simpson.

I could think of a few others people have listed in THIS thread alone. Smaller parks, watered down pitching(expansion), weight lifting, and nutrition. All those things can be attributed to bonds growth now and then. Thats not a straw man defense.

Your assumptions that bonds used steriods is that he is bigger mass wise, he had an increase in production after 35 and people have accused him of it.

These are straw man arguements.
1) Bigger? Shaq, Clemens, Ray Lewis, and James Toney just to name a few have gotten bigger over the years and no body is claiming roids use from them. You put Bonds into this general category that your stats HAVE to go down like the rest of the medicore players in the league.

2) Increased Production at older age - Clemens, Johnson, Julio Franco, Schmidt and Hank Aaron all had an increase or kept consistent in their stats. just like I stated last time

3) If you are going to listen to what aveyone says then thats fine. But nobody other than Canseco has accused Bonds of such. And his credibility with most people isnt that high

You say I dont think for myself? Last time I checked I have brought states and a well thought out arguement to the table. I dont use other peoples opinions. I personally think BONDS DID USE ROIDS, and im not a fan of the giants or Bonds for that matter. And I personally dont care. He can do whatever he wants. Hell...Gaylord perry and phil neikro cheated their way to the HOF and records to be broken. Its a shame bonds to the route he did, but he chose that route...

[USCTrojan83]

Re: Bonds before and after

"Yeah, but Joe Scrub from the Minor Leagues isn't hitting 70 HR's. Bonds has good hand-eye coordination and he's better than most players without steroids".

Again, any defense of Bonds I have ever heard (this thread included) has included these two basic points. If that's not a straw-man, then I don't know what is.

If you must know my life story, I cheated on my French final in High School, and I frequently lie to girls I meet in bars. I did the former because I didn't like failing, the latter because I'm a guy. If that disqualify's me for criticizing bloating overpaid egomaniac athletes who feel the need to break the law and cheat despite already being millionares...then whatever.

I'd be more open to differing viewpoints if we were talking about your honest opinion - but - the only people who agree with you are Giants fans, and professional athletes - have you ever noticed that? Life is more than sports; try thinking for yourself rather than thinking backwards so that it fits the conclusion you want to believe as it relates to your favorite team. As a Bills fan, Lord knows I did that with O.J. Simpson.

I could think of a few others people have listed in THIS thread alone. Smaller parks, watered down pitching(expansion), weight lifting, and nutrition. All those things can be attributed to bonds growth now and then. Thats not a straw man defense.

Your assumptions that bonds used steriods is that he is bigger mass wise, he had an increase in production after 35 and people have accused him of it.

These are straw man arguements.
1) Bigger? Shaq, Clemens, Ray Lewis, and James Toney just to name a few have gotten bigger over the years and no body is claiming roids use from them. You put Bonds into this general category that your stats HAVE to go down like the rest of the medicore players in the league.

2) Increased Production at older age - Clemens, Johnson, Julio Franco, Schmidt and Hank Aaron all had an increase or kept consistent in their stats. just like I stated last time

3) If you are going to listen to what aveyone says then thats fine. But nobody other than Canseco has accused Bonds of such. And his credibility with most people isnt that high

You say I dont think for myself? Last time I checked I have brought states and a well thought out arguement to the table. I dont use other peoples opinions. I personally think BONDS DID USE ROIDS, and im not a fan of the giants or Bonds for that matter. And I personally dont care. He can do whatever he wants. Hell...Gaylord perry and phil neikro cheated their way to the HOF and records to be broken. Its a shame bonds to the route he did, but he chose that route...

[USCTrojan83]

Re: Bonds before and after

Conspiracy Theory via The FAN 590 here in Toronto:

We saw all the heat generated by the Steroids hearing then Bonds mysteriously hits his knee against a table and is out for half a year/full year. Something's fishy here. Bonds must've saw the warning signs and found a way to avoid the heat. He will probably come back considerably lighter and will blame that on his knees.

Good one SportsMan...I agree...theres another thread that deals with this directly...had like 10 reasons why bonds is waiting till all-star break to see if he should come back....

[USCTrojan83]

Re: Bonds before and after

Conspiracy Theory via The FAN 590 here in Toronto:

We saw all the heat generated by the Steroids hearing then Bonds mysteriously hits his knee against a table and is out for half a year/full year. Something's fishy here. Bonds must've saw the warning signs and found a way to avoid the heat. He will probably come back considerably lighter and will blame that on his knees.

Good one SportsMan...I agree...theres another thread that deals with this directly...had like 10 reasons why bonds is waiting till all-star break to see if he should come back....