Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

[Choops4Life]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

Well said Sundown. I wish I could answer all of your questions right now but damn I'd be on here for another hour or two and I got some big plans for 2K15 that I need to get hammered away by the end of the day. I really do hope to get you an insight. REALLY hope I do.

Gah!! Still posting under the wrong profile.

[alabamarob]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

Its good to see 2k employees come in and clarify some game issues, and I will take 2k's word on poe for now.

I play this game everyday and it seems like there is to much help defense regardless of the poe chosen. I have given up an unrealistic amount of corner threes so far on next gen, but I will chalk it up as user error at this point. Once 2k explains what happens under the hood I hope I can get consistent and predictable actions from my defenders.

However, it is not acceptable for anyone to say that everything is taken care of under the hood and that be the end of it. Thanks again for making an A plus basketball game, the only reason I bought a ps4.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

Great posts fellas...but I do want to ask;

We have actually tried the POE settings correct? I don't want it to be a situation where we're digging our feet in the ground and saying "we want our old settings back" for the sake of being comfortable...

I haven't seen many posts that have said: "This is why POE doesn't quite work based of these particular instances"

I've preached defensive settings from day one so anyone who has seen my posts knows i'm all for them...but we also has room to grow...we have to do our part in allowing it to...

I think of each of us could tackle one particular POE, and give our experience based on the result...it would really help...

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

Well you know I don't have the game, but I've seen 3-4 posts in this thread saying the same thing as well as seeing it for myself in jwills live streams where having limiting perimeter shots on still gives up wide open 3's or corner jumpers because the defender just sags off to much and is out of position on good shooters. It seems with this POE people are not getting the results they desire when choosing this POE. Maybe under the hood the CPU AI is not reading it correctly? This is only for the limit perimeter shots POE as I haven't really seen anyone discuss others yet.

[alabamarob]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

Great posts fellas...but I do want to ask;

We have actually tried the POE settings correct? I don't want it to be a situation where we're digging our feet in the ground and saying "we want our old settings back" for the sake of being comfortable...

I haven't seen many posts that have said: "This is why POE doesn't quite work based of these particular instances"

I've preached defensive settings from day one so anyone who has seen my posts knows i'm all for them...but we also has room to grow...we have to do our part in allowing it to...

I think of each of us could tackle one particular POE, and give our experience based on the result...it would really help...

Good idea. On cg you could change def settings in scrimmage mode. However, in Ng there is no poe in scrimmage mode. Quick match it is. I always find the clippers to be the cheeseist cpu squad so definitely do some test runs against them.

[alabamarob]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

Well you know I don't have the game, but I've seen 3-4 posts in this thread saying the same thing as well as seeing it for myself in jwills live streams where having limiting perimeter shots on still gives up wide open 3's or corner jumpers because the defender just sags off to much and is out of position on good shooters. It seems with this POE people are not getting the results they desire when choosing this POE. Maybe under the hood the CPU AI is not reading it correctly? This is only for the limit perimeter shots POE as I haven't really seen anyone discuss others yet.

Yep. The on ball d next gen is great. Paint defense is good not great. But the hof cpu's ability to dribble around the court every possession waiting for a defender to sag off for an open shot or dunk gets frustrating. So whatever poe tells the defenders to stay home and not help give up open looks is the one we need to find. Limit perimeter shots has not done this for me SO FAR.

[STLRams]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

I'm really hoping Zach will write a really good insight about POE so we all can get a better understanding about it so we can see all of the options available to us. Well if 2K post a write up about POE, patch in create a player option and patch in for our custom sliders/settings to actually save in the game instead of defaulting back everytime, I will be one very happy NBA2K14 next gen customer.

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

Yep. The on ball d next gen is great. Paint defense is good not great. But the hof cpu's ability to dribble around the court every possession waiting for a defender to sag off for an open shot or dunk gets frustrating. So whatever poe tells the defenders to stay home and not help give up open looks is the one we need to find. Limit perimeter shots has not done this for me SO FAR.

Yes, I played a quick game against another OSers this morning, Clipps @ Nuggs (me) and the corner 3s were open all game, tried putting Main Defense POE on Limit Perimeter shots, but he would dribble drive from the same wing side and the man would always help leaving the corner man wide open.

Even when I switched it to key on that player (corner man was Crawford) he would still cheat off when CP3 came near.

[STLRams]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

Yep. The on ball d next gen is great. Paint defense is good not great. But the hof cpu's ability to dribble around the court every possession waiting for a defender to sag off for an open shot or dunk gets frustrating. So whatever poe tells the defenders to stay home and not help give up open looks is the one we need to find. Limit perimeter shots has not done this for me SO FAR.

I have also experience that problem with the defense.

[The 24th Letter]

Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

Well you know I don't have the game, but I've seen 3-4 posts in this thread saying the same thing as well as seeing it for myself in jwills live streams where having limiting perimeter shots on still gives up wide open 3's or corner jumpers because the defender just sags off to much and is out of position on good shooters. It seems with this POE people are not getting the results they desire when choosing this POE. Maybe under the hood the CPU AI is not reading it correctly? This is only for the limit perimeter shots POE as I haven't really seen anyone discuss others yet.

Oh no doubt, may have missed those posts...(except for the one above mine) I just think it's important we keep giving feedback directly from our POE experiences..the pros and cons of all of them...because I really think it's a good system to build upon.

EDIT: completely agree with you guys regarding the sagging off/ corner 3's...this was easy to combat in CG...not so much NG under any setting in my experience..

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

I think (and I could be wrong) that 2k put the basic defensive help rules of 1 pass away deny pass and 2 passes away help side position on the block. So what's happening is the guy in the corner is 2 passes away per say from the ball handler at the top of the key, but a simple skip pass to the corner or a drive and the corner shooter is wide open because his man is in "proper help" position on the block. Even with just a simple help defense coaching slider you could be able to adjust how much help you wanted your team to give or not to give. As of now we have no control. Just relying on the CPU AI to make the right decision for us.

There are times in a game where a guy has been killing us from 3. During a timeout I will say you stay glued to him and I don't want you helping no matter what. You stay with him. We don't have that option in 2k anymore. Unless a flex option of keying on someone will give this to us?

I do like sun downs idea of if using regular defensive controls it cancels out POE and is maybe an option like return to original gameplan or something. He had some really good ideas on how the 2 could potentially co exist. I think the POE's are a great idea for quick in game on the fly adjustments where you don't need to call a timeout. But I think I'd still like the option to tell my teammates what to do and create my own gameplan. If I say play tight on ray Allen I know what I'm going to get.

[2_headedmonster]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

I just had a nightmare of a game against a friend of mine.
He was the Rockets, and i was the Mavs and it was like a war between what i wanted to do, and what the cpu defense felt i should do.

I could not get a defender to give Harden space while staying home with off ball shooters. They all played him close enough to share deodorant, and all got beat which opened up 3s. Then I tell them to defend the paint with the "nothing inside" setting, my defenders proceed to give harden a bit of space, while over helping and opening up shooters. Not only that, they started randomly going into a zone that opened up even more threes.

Eventually I just made everything manual (My POE, Defensive Play calling) and set my defense to conservative and switch around like a mad man to minimize shooters. Made a push but still lost by 10. The damage was done.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

From playing I think the problem is help defense might be too active lol or over help . I'm used to it being the opposite. Maybe an adjustment is needed that says stay home on shooters. I find myself moving offball a lot to stay home on a shooter because the A.I will over help.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

^^^^

Yeah, if the defenders gets slightly by you the helper makes a dramatic rush toward the offensive player...

[alabamarob]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

I think (and I could be wrong) that 2k put the basic defensive help rules of 1 pass away deny pass and 2 passes away help side position on the block. So what's happening is the guy in the corner is 2 passes away per say from the ball handler at the top of the key, but a simple skip pass to the corner or a drive and the corner shooter is wide open because his man is in "proper help" position on the block. Even with just a simple help defense coaching slider you could be able to adjust how much help you wanted your team to give or not to give. As of now we have no control. Just relying on the CPU AI to make the right decision for us.

There are times in a game where a guy has been killing us from 3. During a timeout I will say you stay glued to him and I don't want you helping no matter what. You stay with him. We don't have that option in 2k anymore. Unless a flex option of keying on someone will give this to us?

I do like sun downs idea of if using regular defensive controls it cancels out POE and is maybe an option like return to original gameplan or something. He had some really good ideas on how the 2 could potentially co exist. I think the POE's are a great idea for quick in game on the fly adjustments where you don't need to call a timeout. But I think I'd still like the option to tell my teammates what to do and create my own gameplan. If I say play tight on ray Allen I know what I'm going to get.

All coaches think alike. I was thinking the same thing about one pass away but that is not the case. Against the clippers they run a 3 out 2 in. They call for a pick while the other big stays on the block which in real life would be easier to defend because the paint is clogged. The strong side wing defender will still sag when one pass away and give up the corner three. It made me switch to the strong side wing defender just to protect against that corner three and prevent the sag, and pray the cpu can defend paul and the big. Then Paul will turbo back the other way and that wing defender will sag and give up the corner three.

Its not a good look when you spend most of your time switching to control off ball wing defenders to defend the pick and roll.