Time to Have that Talk....

[stillfeelme]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

The cheating the AI does makes the game unplayable.

-They get every offensive rebound
-they make every contact layup
-they block every inside shot
-they can phase through your body while doing the up and under animation
-they NEVER miss the up and under animation
-whenever you tip a pass 95% of the time, the person who passes the ball will retrieve it before you even get to control your player
-the computer can cross any defender you bring, partly because they completely ignore you are alive and tangible and just run right through your limbs
-can teleport on defense and display no signs of having the same momentum movement that the player plays with (they slide all around the court, making it impossible to get by anyone unless you are Derrick Rose, Wade etc..)

I thought 2k11 was pure cheese, because the AI would make every post shot, and superstars were OP (if that's even possible lol) but 2k managed to one up themselves and create an even more blatantly cheap AI.

I wonder how any tester could possibly miss it. After playing 2-3 games vs the AI on HOF or Superstar, you see all the problems listed above. Its ridiculous how no one at 2k noticed it. Probably playing at Pro or something...

What I have noticed is the better you are at playing on ball defense the more cheese you will notice. Your list is accurate though I have experienced it all. The last go to move right now is the up and unders by the CPU in the paint. If you are able to stop everything else the up and under is the cheese move to get baskets. The AI is so input related by whatever input you do there is a small delay and then the CPU responds before your shooting animation happens in the game. This is noticed on the blocks. You press shot stick the CPU jumps then your man jumps. That is why we are getting all these blocks sometimes with the CPU blocking with their arm pits, elbows. So you get the CPU blocking shots they have no business doing because they know when you are shooting there is no guessing game here. The same thing is seen in the CPU on ball defense they react and do not obey any momentum and the CPU playing the passing lanes as soon as the button is pressed.

[brian05fubu]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

That's why I have a relationship with some of these guys, I don't do a lot of the things you are talking about. It's about respecting their work and remaining a fan of the franchise. I'm no different than any of you. Thanks for your input though. So far everyone is responding with intelligence.

What? It sounds like these guys are cocky and you sound like nothing but a fanboy. If the game has problems, they better be pointed out. Game companies deserve the criticism of their product if they do not reach fans' expectation. Fans feed the game companies not the other way around. As long as the fans don't curse at them personally, respect the fans and their voice.

[loadleft]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

I can relate Sovartus, although I don't really have an issue with defense against the CPU scoring in the paint, because I too have discovered the right stick D mechanic's benefits. That said, I read the post of others telling people that they shouldn't dislike NBA 2K12 or prefer another game because it has flaws too, and I wonder: is it not possible that people are looking for different things from their b-ball sim?

Speaking for myself, I can understand the logic of going back to Live 10, although I wouldn't go there myself. If I had my druthers I'd prefer a game that gave me control of each players skills/talents and allowed me to use my brain or in short, gave me control. That's something I've always felt 2K games didn't do.

I play NBA 2K12 on Allstar sim, no edits because I too don't like touching sliders. First of all I play against friends on the same console and there has to be some agreed standard for slider or we'd just argue all day about catering the game to each of us, so I try to keep the feel of the game consistent throughout all my game play. Also, I don't like feeling like I only won because I made the game easier and therefore the difficulty level doesn't even reflect the true level of the AI, but to each is his own. It's not a matter of winning for me, but how I win.

I play the game because I want the feeling that my AI teammates are real life players that play up to their real life abilities and intellect. I want game play that makes it feel like I'm playing as a member of a team, in comparison to what I get with NBA 2K12, that (IMO) feels like most if not everything is left for the user to do and there is no one else on the team that even thinks. I don't know how many post opportunities I see each game that are ruined when a teammate or two decides to lend me his moral support by standing beside me as I post up, I know I can, and do, call iso's but should I have to? Also, When I see stuff like tip balls laying at the feet of my AI teammates until I take control of them and pick it up, or AI teammates not blocking out, or even jumping for rebounds it's kinda a turn-off, not to mention having Mike Conley ran down on fast breaks by every teams opposing centers. A lot of times my wins aren't satisfying from a basketball perspective they just feel that I was successful at using the controls like any other video game. I'm not looking for a stiff challenge of beating a basketball based video game but instead a realistic representation of the match-up challenges in the current day NBA.

I think the lack of that last point is what frustrates some users, like the OP, who are looking for a SIM based representation of the challenges teams face when competing against each other. I do realize there is a dis-connect to what is and isn't SIM/realistic because some users consider sim to be exact representations of a players dribbling or shooting style, the ability to do certain moves, or the presentation of a broadcast style perspective, etc. and so we all use the term SIM to mean different things.

I straddle the fence, sometimes I think NBA 2K12 is all-world, because of depth, or look, or the ability to replicate a move, etc. but then sometimes I hate it when out of position CPU rebounders swoop in for unrealistic rebounds or I discover that ever player in NBA 2K12 has an inner Olajuwon, or I find that my user controlled player has the ability to go from zero to full momentum in .10 seconds yet I am moving so slow that I can't even turn my head before the CPU runs past me.

All this is a long winded way of saying I relate to the OP and at the same time to others who like the game. I just wish that the devs had chosen realism over challenge and/or anti-cheese in each of their design choices.

[stillfeelme]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

I straddle the fence, sometimes I think NBA 2K12 is all-world, because of depth, or look, or the ability to replicate a move, etc. but then sometimes I hate it when out of position CPU rebounders swoop in for unrealistic rebounds or I discover that ever player in NBA 2K12 has an inner Olajuwon, or I find that my user controlled player has the ability to go from zero to full momentum in .10 seconds yet I am moving so slow that I can't even turn my head before the CPU runs past me.

Your comments basically state how I feel, which is the CPU does unrealistic things to keep the score close or beat the user. Sometimes I feel like I am playing the CPU with one hand tied behind my back. I do like the game but against the CPU it could be much better.

[GHOSTFACE03]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

The game does cheat at times, rubber band ai. It can be really damn annoying. Check it out yourself, doesn't this sound familiar? http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RubberBandAI
Check this one out also:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheComputerIsACheatingBastard

Oh yeah better throw in the obligatory diehard comments to defend anything about the game. You just need to learn to play better. It's not the game it's you! Can people get off 2ks back?! I'm tired of the whining about legit problems with the game, stop complaining!

There we go, no thread with legit complaints is complete without these lol.

[JerzeyReign]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

Why not just play the game on a level that is more suitable for you -- like Pro? Gotta swallow that pride. I learned that the hard way this year... I'm not as good in 2k as I thought I was, well not for this release. I'm getting back to par but its taking a little bit more concentration on my part. The moment you start playing a video game is the moment you start losing.

[GHOSTFACE03]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

Why not just play the game on a level that is more suitable for you -- like Pro? Gotta swallow that pride. I learned that the hard way this year... I'm not as good in 2k as I thought I was, well not for this release. I'm getting back to par but its taking a little bit more concentration on my part. The moment you start playing a video game is the moment you start losing.

It's not so much about just winning or losing as much as HOW you're winning or losing. And a lot of times it's a case of the computer being too easy on pro but cheating too much on higher difficulties. Each year on 2k i typically start out on pro or all star until i get warmed up and used to the game enough. Then i bump it up to superstar. But again, it's not always just a matter of skill because sometimes the computer will just flat out cheat to get an advantage or make the game more challenging. This is a problem in a lot of sports games.

[The 24th Letter]

Oh yeah better throw in the obligatory diehard comments to defend anything about the game. You just need to learn to play better. It's not the game it's you! Can people get off 2ks back?! I'm tired of the whining about legit problems with the game, stop complaining!

There we go, no thread with legit complaints is complete without these lol.

Nobody's doing this in this thread. Everyone was having a good discussion before this.

This just makes you look like your derailing the thread with an agenda.

[Whaaaazuuuuup]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

Actually, I thought from jump this game feels like Live10 with better animations. The CPU team is gonna score REGARDLESS of what type defense you play on the to balance out the score or pull away from you to make it harder for you. Thats cheating folks!!

Ex: I've been playing a marathon Bulls (me) vs Hawks. I've played about 30+ game straight, All star sim slider (fatigue & stamina 47). And it's the same story, I hang with them til halftime then comes 3rd quarter starts and they're run if and pull away by 20. Ive made adjustments like shutting down Joe Johnson and suddenly Jason Collins is pulling off baseline crossover spin moves pushing my defender away and dunking on 3 bulls for the foul (I even saved the replay). That's not sim, that's cheating.

2k, bottom-line, reward the defense for smart play & adjustments, especially with the little defensive options we have. To this day, LIVE 2000 is the only bball game with no patches to get gameplay PERFECT!!...

[Whaaaazuuuuup]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

And for those saying bump down the difficulty is not he answer because I'm KilLING the CPU on pro I'm not able to finish the game. It shod be like a game of chest bs the CPU. The CPU shouldnt disable your player so it can take advantage. Imagine if the CPU did that in a chess game, when it was losing, it wouldn't allow you to take your turn...

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

2k12 (the bad stuff anyway) does remind me a alot of Live 10...

I can see going back to 2k11....Going BACK to Live 10 though? That's crazy lol

[P-Dub]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

The CPU shouldnt disable your player so it can take advantage.

This. I turned the ball over and took control of Patrick Ewing and held turbo to try and get back. I probably had no chance to catch up, but the moment the ball handler started his dunk animation Ewinh started jogging. Stop taking control of my player for me. I don't even want to talk about trying to change direction to recover after guessing the wrong way and the two animations that like to play out before my player pivots to finally change direction.

I think 2k has exaggerated everything a bit too much resulting in lobsided results. This includes team momentum, player movement momentum, and any kind of shot modifiers like when a player is open or in a hot spot or high tendency area.

[Mintsa]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

2k12 (the bad stuff anyway) does remind me a alot of Live 10...

I can see going back to 2k11....Going BACK to Live 10 though? That's crazy lol

I also see alot of the Live 10 similarities. Both good & bad.

[Pared]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

I'm always up for a game of 2k11 online. Hit me up!

With my sliders I had no qualms with how the game played head to head. None.

I can see the improvements but for what it had, 2k11 was incredible.

[hear me now]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

I'm a little confused about this game this year.... Here is what I'm talking about. The computer seems to be unstoppable. I played a game this morning on All Star with simulation sliders and at halftime, it was 75 to 37. The cpu was shooting 65% and had over 20 more points in the paint than I did.

(yeah, I know... "you suck!" "sounds like you need to practice!" "swallow your pride and lower the difficulty" " change the sliders!" blah, blah, blah, blah... did I miss any?)

Now that I got that out of the way.... let me explain... I have visited 2K and spent 3 days with development team each time so I do know 2K fairly well and am friends with the guys who make the game....

I don't like to change the sliders because when you play online, you can't change them and considering the fact that I play a lot online, I want the same experience.

I find that the cpu can score in the paint at will, ALWAYS seems to get a majority of the offensive rebounds, makes some pretty impossible shots, and has a tendency to try to run the score up at all costs with no mercy. (calling a timeout when you score ONE BASKET during their 20 to 2 run)

This all leaves me rather frustrated and ready to make the trip to Gamestop, dust off 2K11 or Live 10 for that matter. There just doesn't seem to be much logic to playing the cpu these days and it is rather heartbreaking. My love affair with 2K is on rocky ground and her and I might be seperating for a few months if we can't solve our problems.

What am I missing? Any advice from the sane, intelligent community members is most appreciated. Please, keep it objective and have some substance to your comments if you don't mind. I'm not looking for trolls, bashers, or childish remarks to plague this thread. It would be nice to have a serious objective discussion involving tips, strategies, and solutions to some of the most common 2K12 issues we have all faced.

By the way, I consider myself to be a gamer who enjoys playing the game as realisically as possible so I'm not really interested in doing anything that takes advantage of the programming or flaws in the AI in any way....

Thanks in advance OS'ers.....

If you're friends with developers,then ask them to let me be able to use any signatures that I want.Thanks.