Why is 2k going "casual" with 2k13?

[btrapp]

Re: Why is 2k going "casual" with 2k13?

One of the things that i've learned from reading threads on OS for a while now is that online players and offline players are simply playing different games. I would say that 90% of the things that online players continuously complain about are even an issue with offline only players. ESPECIALLY with the so called "cheese" constantly mentioned about the 2k games. The worst part to me is when 2k actually listens to some of these complaints and tweaks their game according to hopes and dreams of online gamers while simultaneously wrecking the offline experience. This is why when 2k12 first came out it was almost impossible to drive past ai the do to the obscene amount of contact out on the perimeter. YET, online players to this day are STILL complaining about a lack of contact in the game ( it's almost as though online players want to play a next gen version of arch rivals and not a nba game). I believe the only solution is to release the games with two slider sets. One that makes the game play like an actual nba game for offline users, and another with enough contact to make a rugby player blush for the online gamer.

[Ramboooo]

Re: Why is 2k going "casual" with 2k13?

It's really simple. Casual gamers out number us hardcore simulation gamers. Take 2k12. I believe the scores it received were like 9/10 and 9.5/10 ,a near perfect experience ,across the board. If one of us reviewed the game it would probably receive a 7.5 or 8. A decent game ,but very flawed and a step down from 2k11. Because the casual gamers outnumber us so 2k wants their money.

I'm not sure that's true. If casual = simple / arcade / unrealistic / unsim, then NBA Live would've been bigger, NBA Jam would've been bigger. Instead it's the opposite, NBA 2K grew because of the realism / sim factor. Whoever makes a game on the right side of sim, has the advantage imo. Of course the game has to be fun but sim is fun to many people. I disagree that it's the casual gamers that buy more or should be catered to when it's been the hardcore Sim following that won out in the end because gamers want the real thing not arcade ball.

[Yeats]

Re: Why is 2k going "casual" with 2k13?

I'm not sure that's true. If casual = simple / arcade / unrealistic / unsim, then NBA Live would've been bigger, NBA Jam would've been bigger. Instead it's the opposite, NBA 2K grew because of the realism / sim factor. Whoever makes a game on the right side of sim, has the advantage imo. Of course the game has to be fun but sim is fun to many people. I disagree that it's the casual gamers that buy more or should be catered to when it's been the hardcore Sim following that won out in the end because gamers want the real thing not arcade ball.

A couple years back, MLB 2K revamped their hittings controls and simplified them. A 2K dev stated at the time that the reason they made the controls in that game simpler was to "appeal to the pick-up-and-play gamer." They're catering to the casual gamer, plain and simple, because they know casual gamers outnumber sim gamers by a huge margin.

[DemiGodzillla]

Re: Why is 2k going "casual" with 2k13?

How was 2k11 deeper than 2k12? 2k12 has a much deeper/expanisve post game, iso game, play calling system etc. The Controls are more advanced for 2k12 almost across the board.

My only problem with 2k12 is that it didn't seem release ready, controls seem very loose, some things (up and unders) are too easy/effective etc. But I never felt like the game was a step back towards casual gamers, just a not really finished product.

[JasonMartin]

Re: Why is 2k going "casual" with 2k13?

white glow shooting so users don't need to practice mode time

Dude... do people even use this? When I play this game I don't have time enough to watch down and then watch the correct release and shoot. It's all in the fingers, of course it's lame but I don't think people constantly use it or are able to use it.

At least I don't, I didn't know it was in the game until recently.

[NotSureIfSerious]

Re: Why is 2k going "casual" with 2k13?

2k11's isomotion was deeper and the a.i was deeper... the other points i give to 2k12

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Re: Why is 2k going "casual" with 2k13?

the 2K NHL Dev Team went casual, a few years later the game was dead. sigh

That is at least sorta true. I thought NHL 2k8 was special but you could tell that they were shooting for a sorta alternative to EA's hard commitment to realistic hockey.

I cant understand how people can just hump their shoulders and say that casual gamers outnumber the hardcore business is business. If we were talking about a new FPS franchise such a marketing rule might apply but sports games are different. The hardcore gamers are the pied pipers of the genre. If a determined focus on new/casual gamers were a panacea Madden would be a doing a lot better. Overly complex and difficult to learn controls can rattle anyone that is new to any game. Visual Concepts is attempting to strike a balance and they are open about it. They want to increase ease of use and depth.

I been playing NBA 2k since the first one before there was a number after it and at times I fight the controls. I might want to attempt a euro step and I get something else and the stance is harder to control than it was in 2k11. I can also think of a few simple ways to add depth and strategy to the game even while simplifying the controls.

Their goals are not at odds. This can work. It can also fail. We are just going to have to wait and see.

[Johnny "Too Tall"]

Re: Why is 2k going "casual" with 2k13?

you clearly dont play much online if you dont think the things i mentioned are cheese. my online record is 166-65. its not that i cant overcome the cheese, its just that i HATE that people play like that. i cant count how many times the person im playing against will run around like an idiot with someone like chris paul or rudy gay and just randomly stop and shoot a jumper right over my defender and make it. no attempt at running a realistic offense, no attempt at even getting an open shot. and they get rewarded for it so they keep doing it.

spamming the steal button is cheese because they get rewarded with steals far too often especially if they are using someone like rondo or westbrook. on top of that its just cheesy because its not realistic. players dont run around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to steal everything. thats just not how basketball is played on any level.

double team cheese is when people set their defense to halfcourt trap and double team EVERY POSSESSION. that is certainly cheese, and is not a legit basketball strategy. no basketball team double teams on every possession.

up and under is cheese because it cant be stopped. 95% of the time its either a made basket or a foul is called on the defender. putting the hand up to defend it doesnt work.

1-3-1 is cheese because almost every time someone uses it, they run around with one player trying to steal or tip everything. this falls into the same category of steal spamming. its not realistic and its a cheap gimmick that is easy to pick apart.

look, i dont think your understanding me. im not saying i cant beat the cheese. im not saying it cant be countered. i stated my record above and i do pick apart cheesy zones and double teams by finding the open man and making my shots. my point is, i dont like playing like that. i want people to play straight up basketball instead of resorting to cheesy gimmicks that are easy to pick apart.

So you're saying that people use cheesy tactics and they don't work. Isn't that the way it should be? 2k12 allows you to use skill to beat people who use cheese according to you. What's the problem? Every game has people doing cheesy things online, especially sports game. If you think there isn't cheese being used in 2k11 you're just flat out wrong. There's tons of it.

Spamming the steal button is super annoying and I do agree that it is really frustrating when someone can pull off some of the crazy steals Ive seen. The thing is, if you play 2k11 online ( which I have been for the last 3 days) you can hack away and never get a steal, or a foul call. Not exactly legit either.

Double teaming constantly just doesn't work and I laugh when people try this. On top of that, in the 100+ games Ive played online I would honestly saw very few even tried it. Oh, and people tried to use that same tactic in past 2k's as well.

The 1-3-1 is easy to beat and most people will give up on that once I start draining three's in the corner. Again, most people I play don't even try that.

The lead pass to the guy cutting to the paint was wayyyy easier to exploit in past 2k version than it is in 2k12. There's no way you can convince me otherwise; I've played every version of 2k there is, and this was the first one I felt it was toned down to an acceptable point.

People draining shots in defenders face...does happen. Happens in real life too.

There are cheesy things in 2k12 online - like people who don't even bother to try and cover you so when you drive they just let there help d slide over and cover up there mistakes. this usually works when they turn help d up to 100% and change defensive assist to 100%. Really annoying. There's other issues with contact as well, and morphing etc.

But honestly, I see just as much cheese in 2k11 as I do in 2k12, and the idea that 2k12 doesn't reward people who play quality basketball is just wrong. You basically said so yourself.

[DatGD12guage]

Re: Why is 2k going "casual" with 2k13?

As someone who prefers live what turned me off to 2k was the control layout and responsiveness of dribbling and finishing moves. And all the modifiers you have to do. Im all for making that aspect better.

the less modifiers and controls equal less moves at your disposal equal live. 2k has more signature animations and are adding more so I think that adding more controls and modifiers would be good because I think they actually brought over a control layout similar to the one live 10 had but the ppl who used the complex layout had more moves at their disposal so maybe making more control layouts would solve that problem but I fully agree about the responsiveness of the controls. Or MAYBE LETTING US CREATE OUR OWN CONTROL LAYOUT?............

[DatGD12guage]

Re: Why is 2k going "casual" with 2k13?

So you're saying that people use cheesy tactics and they don't work. Isn't that the way it should be? 2k12 allows you to use skill to beat people who use cheese according to you. What's the problem? Every game has people doing cheesy things online, especially sports game. If you think there isn't cheese being used in 2k11 you're just flat out wrong. There's tons of it.

Spamming the steal button is super annoying and I do agree that it is really frustrating when someone can pull off some of the crazy steals Ive seen. The thing is, if you play 2k11 online ( which I have been for the last 3 days) you can hack away and never get a steal, or a foul call. Not exactly legit either.

Double teaming constantly just doesn't work and I laugh when people try this. On top of that, in the 100+ games Ive played online I would honestly saw very few even tried it. Oh, and people tried to use that same tactic in past 2k's as well.

The 1-3-1 is easy to beat and most people will give up on that once I start draining three's in the corner. Again, most people I play don't even try that.

The lead pass to the guy cutting to the paint was wayyyy easier to exploit in past 2k version than it is in 2k12. There's no way you can convince me otherwise; I've played every version of 2k there is, and this was the first one I felt it was toned down to an acceptable point.

People draining shots in defenders face...does happen. Happens in real life too.

There are cheesy things in 2k12 online - like people who don't even bother to try and cover you so when you drive they just let there help d slide over and cover up there mistakes. this usually works when they turn help d up to 100% and change defensive assist to 100%. Really annoying. There's other issues with contact as well, and morphing etc.

But honestly, I see just as much cheese in 2k11 as I do in 2k12, and the idea that 2k12 doesn't reward people who play quality basketball is just wrong. You basically said so yourself.

get at me online tetoleetd if you want a real game cuzo but yeh 1-3-1 all game is fake and cheesy and the sad thing is that I found it to be most ppl who say they are so called sim who do this.. SSSSAD


but both of you are basically saying that both games have some cheese and you can say how easy something is to stop and get around but when you come in contact with ppl who can pair every thing together and cheat good then this game will have you breaking shhh and keep in mind this game does cheat and remember anybody would rather have you shoot threes all game than anything easier so whoever gives up on the 1-3-1 zone because you are taking threes is not one of those good cheaters hes a learning cheater

[Sasquash]

Re: Why is 2k going "casual" with 2k13?

2k11 and 2k12 are both easy so idk where people are getting 2k11 was so hardcore tough, 2k11 was just the better game overall that's all

[z Revis]

Re: Why is 2k going "casual" with 2k13?

I actually think 2k11 was more casual than 12.