Making the CPU shoot less from "Close" and "Inside" areas

[RyanFitzmagic]

Re: Making the CPU shoot less from "Close" and "Inside" areas

That is one isolated incident. I would like to see you replicate that particular situation 100 times and see what the percentage is that you get "that" result. I don't think the numbers would be favorable to your argument.

That's just my opinion. You don't have to agree with me.

That's absolutely fine-- I won't be hostile with people simply for disagreeing. Promise. I think this is a very good post, actually.

I would point at the players and their tendencies. I would want to look and player's contested shot, close shot, SIT, Post Hook, Post Defense, etc... there are a lot of factors in that equation, not just the few you mention. The CPU is going to take the "best route" available for the situation, not what your paradigm of basketball suggests is what "should happen". You seem to forget, you are dealing with artificial intelligence. Someone programmed a bunch of "if this happens...... this is what you do in this order depending on what's available"... responses for the CPU to follow to make the game play as realistic as it can. You can't expect it to be human.

A few things to say about this:

-There is not "Contested Shot" tendency as far as I can tell. There's only "Contest Shots," which is described as a defensive tendency.

-I have Collison's "Close" tendency very low (single digits), and his Inside at 15 at the most (can't remember off the top of my head).

-How would "Post Hook" or "Post Defense" make a difference in this situation?

-Lastly, I'm only looking for the game to follow its tendency engine. If I have every possible slider telling the CPU to shoot as little as possible near/in the paint, and I have an individual player's tendencies doing the same, I don't think it's too much to ask that he refrain from forcing shots in that area.

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: Making the CPU shoot less from "Close" and "Inside" areas

That's absolutely fine-- I won't be hostile with people simply for disagreeing. Promise. I think this is a very good post, actually.

A few things to say about this:

-There is not "Contested Shot" tendency as far as I can tell. There's only "Contest Shots," which is described as a defensive tendency.

-I have Collison's "Close" tendency very low (single digits), and his Inside at 15 at the most (can't remember off the top of my head).

-How would "Post Hook" or "Post Defense" make a difference in this situation?

-Lastly, I'm only looking for the game to follow its tendency engine. If I have every possible slider telling the CPU to shoot as little as possible near/in the paint, and I have an individual player's tendencies doing the same, I don't think it's too much to ask that he refrain from forcing shots in that area.

Contested shot is only for defense, there is no offensive contested shot tendency.

Also without posting all of the settings at the time, I don't see how one can expect to give advice w/o knowing whats been done/tried, etc.

[Po Pimp]

Re: Making the CPU shoot less from "Close" and "Inside" areas

For me, it's not so much that they shoot from up close, it's how fast they shoot it. They don't even make a move, they just catch and MAYBE do one move then shoot.

[Sovartus]

Re: Making the CPU shoot less from "Close" and "Inside" areas

That's absolutely fine-- I won't be hostile with people simply for disagreeing. Promise. I think this is a very good post, actually.



A few things to say about this:

-There is not "Contested Shot" tendency as far as I can tell. There's only "Contest Shots," which is described as a defensive tendency.

-I have Collison's "Close" tendency very low (single digits), and his Inside at 15 at the most (can't remember off the top of my head).

-How would "Post Hook" or "Post Defense" make a difference in this situation?

-Lastly, I'm only looking for the game to follow its tendency engine. If I have every possible slider telling the CPU to shoot as little as possible near/in the paint, and I have an individual player's tendencies doing the same, I don't think it's too much to ask that he refrain from forcing shots in that area.

I was speaking of the "defensive tendency" when I mentioned the contested shot tendency. I mentioned this to raise the question about the defenders involved. Did they have a very high contested shot tendency.

I mentioned the Post Hook rating to raise the question if that was a high enough score for the CPU to determine it was the best available shot in the given situation.

I mentioned the Post Defense rating to raise the question if the defenders standing near him had a high enough post defense rating or block rating to challenge 6'9" Nick Collison that close to the basket, aka... the post.

I noticed in your video, you had one defender on his side and they other was really short and didn't jump until "AFTER" the shot was already in the air. He also took a swat at the ball which shows that you went for an aggressive block attempt which then makes it like your defender isn't even there anyway, so double whammy for you. In this case it would constitute an uncontested/open shot from what looks like about 5 or 6 ft from the basket. I would guess most NBA players would take an open, uncontested shot when they are that close to the hoop and would make it at least 70% of the time.

I asked about SIT (shoot in traffic) because that might affect the equation a little but not enough to cause him to miss such an easy shot.

If you have purposely changed his close tendency to the "single digits" (let's say a 5 for argument sake) then he is only going to take that shot 5% of the time. This particular instance could very well be a situation when that 5% is warranted. If you keep allowing him to be in that 5% situation, he will probably take that shot more than 5% of the time.

[poloelite]

Re: Making the CPU shoot less from "Close" and "Inside" areas

I guarantee that Nick Collison does not take this shot in real life consistently. There's no reason for someone who doesn't have great touch at the basket to force a shot with four players in the paint. That means someone's open.

But anyway, it's not about help defense and forcing the CPU to do this or that. The CPU shouldn't be forcing shots with everyone in that area at all.

Poor spacing by OKC

[RyanFitzmagic]

Re: Making the CPU shoot less from "Close" and "Inside" areas

Also without posting all of the settings at the time, I don't see how one can expect to give advice w/o knowing whats been done/tried, etc.

Like what? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's a whole lot that goes into a CPU player's decision to shoot or not shoot. Only:

Shot Tendency
Shot Location Tendencies
Shot Location Coach/Global Sliders
Maybe Pass Out (which I obviously have somewhat high for Collison, with low Attack)

As far as I know.

I was speaking of the "defensive tendency" when I mentioned the contested shot tendency. I mentioned this to raise the question about the defenders involved. Did they have a very high contested shot tendency.

What difference would that make? I don't think the CPU's shot location tendencies are affected in any way by the defense's tendencies.

I mentioned the Post Hook rating to raise the question if that was a high enough score for the CPU to determine it was the best available shot in the given situation.

That wasn't a hook shot as far as the game is concerned. He didn't have his back to the basket.

I mentioned the Post Defense rating to raise the question if the defenders standing near him had a high enough post defense rating or block rating to challenge 6'9" Nick Collison that close to the basket, aka... the post.

Like I said, being in close proximity to the basket is not equivalent to being in the post. Not in real basketball and not in 2K.

you went for an aggressive block attempt which then makes it like your defender isn't even there anyway, so double whammy for you. In this case it would constitute an uncontested/open shot from what looks like about 5 or 6 ft from the basket. I would guess most NBA players would take an open, uncontested shot when they are that close to the hoop and would make it at least 70% of the time.

How does an aggressive swat attempt equate to the ballhandler being open?

If you have purposely changed his close tendency to the "single digits" (let's say a 5 for argument sake) then he is only going to take that shot 5% of the time. This particular instance could very well be a situation when that 5% is warranted. If you keep allowing him to be in that 5% situation, he will probably take that shot more than 5% of the time.

No, that's not how they work. The tendencies are not percentages of how often the CPU will do something. They're variables that change how willing the CPU is to do something-- i.e., a low Mid Range tendency will make the CPU unwilling to take anything but wide open shots, whereas a high tendency will make them willing to shoot almost any mid-range shot they can get.

[Sovartus]

Re: Making the CPU shoot less from "Close" and "Inside" areas

Well, ok bro. Sounds like you know all the answers so when you figure it all out, post it for us. I'm looking forward to it.

[RyanFitzmagic]

Re: Making the CPU shoot less from "Close" and "Inside" areas

I clearly don't, which is why I made this thread and why I directed at least two questions toward you in my last post that you apparently refuse to answer for some reason.

[Sovartus]

Re: Making the CPU shoot less from "Close" and "Inside" areas

Like what? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's a whole lot that goes into a CPU player's decision to shoot or not shoot. Only:

Shot Tendency
Shot Location Tendencies
Shot Location Coach/Global Sliders
Maybe Pass Out (which I obviously have somewhat high for Collison, with low Attack)

As far as I know.

I believe there is more to it than that.

What difference would that make? I don't think the CPU's shot location tendencies are affected in any way by the defense's tendencies.

Nothing to do with CPU shot location, only in the shot success.

That wasn't a hook shot as far as the game is concerned. He didn't have his back to the basket.

I don't know that he has to have his back to the basket to shoot a hook (at least you don't in real life) but I could be wrong.

Like I said, being in close proximity to the basket is not equivalent to being in the post. Not in real basketball and not in 2K.

In "real life" the post can be established anywhere from "high post" to "low post". It's not a place on the court, it's a place a player establishes himself.

How does an aggressive swat attempt equate to the ballhandler being open?

If the attempt is missed, it's not considered a shot contest so the player is considered open.

No, that's not how they work. The tendencies are not percentages of how often the CPU will do something. They're variables that change how willing the CPU is to do something-- i.e., a low Mid Range tendency will make the CPU unwilling to take anything but wide open shots, whereas a high tendency will make them willing to shoot almost any mid-range shot they can get.

You and I have a different understanding of how it works. And that's ok.

[RyanFitzmagic]

Re: Making the CPU shoot less from "Close" and "Inside" areas

I believe there is more to it than that.

Such as?

Nothing to do with CPU shot location, only in the shot success.

Well, that's irrelevant right now.

I don't know that he has to have his back to the basket to shoot a hook (at least you don't in real life) but I could be wrong.

I'm pretty sure you do have to be engaged in the post to shoot a hook as far as 2K's engine is concerned. Anything else at the basket is considered a dunk, floater or a layup.

In "real life" the post can be established anywhere from "high post" to "low post". It's not a place on the court, it's a place a player establishes himself.

Getting a handoff in the paint isn't considered posting up.

If the attempt is missed, it's not considered a shot contest so the player is considered open.

I don't understand.

You and I have a different understanding of how it works. And that's ok.

I've tested this. The way you say it works would never be possible, because there are too many variables during different shot attempts. You can't say "He'll shoot 5% of the time." 5% open? 5% contested? 5% period? It would never work.

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: Making the CPU shoot less from "Close" and "Inside" areas

Like what? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's a whole lot that goes into a CPU player's decision to shoot or not shoot. Only:

Shot Tendency
Shot Location Tendencies
Shot Location Coach/Global Sliders
Maybe Pass Out (which I obviously have somewhat high for Collison, with low Attack)

As far as I know.

Yes that and more...

Pass out is for only after a drive.

But still why is Durant passing the ball at a stand still in the paint? What happened in this play? Is this in MP or Play Now/Assoc?

Collison is unguarded when he 'catches' ball, bad shot, but he made it, how often does this happen? Does Collison constantly do this? Is this only Collison doing this? Determining if this is an isolated player or an overall issue w/ avg players shooting too much in the paint would help in reducing contributing factors.

Defense positioning and strength (especially the individual player matchup) most logically would affect offensive tendencies.

[Bobhead]

Re: Making the CPU shoot less from "Close" and "Inside" areas

Yeah I beefed up defense significantly with sliders and I see a lot less of this stuff. Unfortunately that means I'm unable to enjoy MyCareer mode until this issue(s) is legitimately resolved.

[RyanFitzmagic]

Re: Making the CPU shoot less from "Close" and "Inside" areas

But still why is Durant passing the ball at a stand still in the paint? What happened in this play? Is this in MP or Play Now/Assoc?

Quick game. Couldn't tell you why Durant did that. He had just driven to the basket and I guess he felt the need to give the ball up. Those types of passes don't happen often for me though (although still more than I'd like).

Collison is unguarded when he 'catches' ball, bad shot, but he made it, how often does this happen? Does Collison constantly do this? Is this only Collison doing this? Determining if this is an isolated player or an overall issue w/ avg players shooting too much in the paint would help in reducing contributing factors.

It's everyone. Star players, role players, scorers, borderline offensive liabilities. They all force shots 99% of the time if they get the ball anywhere near the basket.

Defense positioning and strength (especially the individual player matchup) most logically would affect offensive tendencies.

You mean the Strength rating?

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: Making the CPU shoot less from "Close" and "Inside" areas

Quick game. Couldn't tell you why Durant did that. He had just driven to the basket and I guess he felt the need to give the ball up. Those types of passes don't happen often for me though (although still more than I'd like).

What is your attack the basket slider at? I have a suspicion that you have it lowered. If so, then what you are doing is raising the chances that players will pass out of a drive instead of attacking.

It's everyone. Star players, role players, scorers, borderline offensive liabilities. They all force shots 99% of the time if they get the ball anywhere near the basket.

What is the inside tend slider at? Shot success? Are they shooting everytime no matter the shot clock situation?

You mean the Strength rating? No the quality (rating wise) of the defenders and the position of them make up the "strength" of the defense.

Replied in bold.

[Paul Pierce_OS]

Yeah I beefed up defense significantly with sliders and I see a lot less of this stuff. Unfortunately that means I'm unable to enjoy MyCareer mode until this issue(s) is legitimately resolved.

You could use chromes mp slider tool.

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