CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

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  • DiceMan
    NBA All Life Team
    • Mar 2004
    • 2055

    #241
    Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

    this so disheartening. i love how this game plays but how and i mean for the love of god HOW can they let another major bug like this get through? it almost makes me wanna say screw vc but i cant because they do put out games that "play" beauitfully. i just hope someone can find a fix to this major problem. i will prob still play the game but honestly how can they expect to overtake ea with stupid issues like this that can be easy avoided?
    PSN: DoubleLGetsBusy
    NY Knicks
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    4 Life.....

    Comment

    • neovsmatrix
      MVP
      • Jul 2002
      • 2878

      #242
      Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

      Originally posted by spankdatazz22
      Games are released early BECAUSE of the consumers. Fact is, when a game goes to an early (earlier) release date people get excited and almost always jump on the title - PERIOD. People were buzzing on these forums when EA announced Live's early release. The vast majority of game buyers want their games sooner rather than later. And the risk to the developer holding a game for trying to release a perfect as possible product is too great. Last year, VC held NFL2k4 for an extra month and people buried it as having NO chance sales-wise. The fact that it was a quality game was pretty much it's only saving grace - and it suffered in sales. But that game had bugs also - and they waited an additional MONTH. NBA2k5 was moved up an additional week - one week - and chances are, the early release was in the works anyway. All sports games will have glitches or something that's perceived by SOMEONE as a glitch; we need to be more tolerant of that fact.

      I'm guessing very few, if any of us know how difficult bug testing is. I don't blame EA or it's testers for the quicksand glitch - how can you take every contingency into account? Same for the lefty glitch. I doubt the majority of people that buy the games even realize these glitches are present - unless they visit a forum. I probably wouldn't have noticed the TO glitch myself unless I read it here. I'm not trying to say that they shouldn't bare some of the blame. But I think calling them incompetent or worse is a bit of a stretch. I blame companies when there are gameplay issues that can be solved with a little work. Live was pretty much unplayable out of the box, but with a lot of slider work, Pared's sliders made the game enjoyable for many. Don't build in speed cheats or superhuman computer play to make up for gameplay deficiencies. Those are the things you can blame a developer for. As far as I can tell, those don't appear to be in NBA2k5.

      For me, the game plays just as fantastic right now as it did when I left it for work this morning. I understand those people wanting an ultra-realistic experience may be disappointed. But these games are in competition. Until consumers start demanding that games release as flaw-free as possible, you have to accept that things like this will occur. The fact is, next year may even be worse in terms of early release dates. Most people just aren't willing to wait to get a game in their hands. If anything, it's us (collectively) that are doing the disservice to ourselves.
      The timeout bug is what I find inexcusable. And yes, I would be able to actually find the game PLAYABLE if it weren't for this bug. It's this one bug that's a gamekiller for me as it directly factors into gameplay.

      And what you've been saying is exactly what I have a problem with. Consumers who are doing themselves in by anticipating a game's release and not worrying about the quality. The mentality of "who cares? It's just a game" is baffling to me. Do gamers not want actual improvements in the gameplay?

      And you know, I could have lived with just setting the timeouts by the CPU to auto if it were POSSIBLE, but even that was messed up by the developers. I don't know what kind of thought process they undergo by keeping another player from playing a game against a friend in Association mode. I don't know how they could implement this all new franchise thing and take away a lot of basic functionality that was there before. and I wouldn't have cared, if the timeout wasn't an issue, as I wouldn't have needed to switch controllers in the Association. I'm sure other people do care about this though.

      By the way, I was also one of the few people it seems, that was wary of the game's rushed release. I don't like the idea that the game devs didn't do anything and everything in their power to reduce the bugs as much as possible. The obvious ones matter, not the ones that are detail-oriented or animation oriented, IMHO. The ones that directly impact gameplay. It's about setting priorities and I just don't see the devs at Visual Concepts having established a good set of priorities.

      Comment

      • neovsmatrix
        MVP
        • Jul 2002
        • 2878

        #243
        Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

        Originally posted by spankdatazz22
        Games are released early BECAUSE of the consumers. Fact is, when a game goes to an early (earlier) release date people get excited and almost always jump on the title - PERIOD. People were buzzing on these forums when EA announced Live's early release. The vast majority of game buyers want their games sooner rather than later. And the risk to the developer holding a game for trying to release a perfect as possible product is too great. Last year, VC held NFL2k4 for an extra month and people buried it as having NO chance sales-wise. The fact that it was a quality game was pretty much it's only saving grace - and it suffered in sales. But that game had bugs also - and they waited an additional MONTH. NBA2k5 was moved up an additional week - one week - and chances are, the early release was in the works anyway. All sports games will have glitches or something that's perceived by SOMEONE as a glitch; we need to be more tolerant of that fact.

        I'm guessing very few, if any of us know how difficult bug testing is. I don't blame EA or it's testers for the quicksand glitch - how can you take every contingency into account? Same for the lefty glitch. I doubt the majority of people that buy the games even realize these glitches are present - unless they visit a forum. I probably wouldn't have noticed the TO glitch myself unless I read it here. I'm not trying to say that they shouldn't bare some of the blame. But I think calling them incompetent or worse is a bit of a stretch. I blame companies when there are gameplay issues that can be solved with a little work. Live was pretty much unplayable out of the box, but with a lot of slider work, Pared's sliders made the game enjoyable for many. Don't build in speed cheats or superhuman computer play to make up for gameplay deficiencies. Those are the things you can blame a developer for. As far as I can tell, those don't appear to be in NBA2k5.

        For me, the game plays just as fantastic right now as it did when I left it for work this morning. I understand those people wanting an ultra-realistic experience may be disappointed. But these games are in competition. Until consumers start demanding that games release as flaw-free as possible, you have to accept that things like this will occur. The fact is, next year may even be worse in terms of early release dates. Most people just aren't willing to wait to get a game in their hands. If anything, it's us (collectively) that are doing the disservice to ourselves.
        The timeout bug is what I find inexcusable. And yes, I would be able to actually find the game PLAYABLE if it weren't for this bug. It's this one bug that's a gamekiller for me as it directly factors into gameplay.

        And what you've been saying is exactly what I have a problem with. Consumers who are doing themselves in by anticipating a game's release and not worrying about the quality. The mentality of "who cares? It's just a game" is baffling to me. Do gamers not want actual improvements in the gameplay?

        And you know, I could have lived with just setting the timeouts by the CPU to auto if it were POSSIBLE, but even that was messed up by the developers. I don't know what kind of thought process they undergo by keeping another player from playing a game against a friend in Association mode. I don't know how they could implement this all new franchise thing and take away a lot of basic functionality that was there before. and I wouldn't have cared, if the timeout wasn't an issue, as I wouldn't have needed to switch controllers in the Association. I'm sure other people do care about this though.

        By the way, I was also one of the few people it seems, that was wary of the game's rushed release. I don't like the idea that the game devs didn't do anything and everything in their power to reduce the bugs as much as possible. The obvious ones matter, not the ones that are detail-oriented or animation oriented, IMHO. The ones that directly impact gameplay. It's about setting priorities and I just don't see the devs at Visual Concepts having established a good set of priorities.

        Comment

        • mogrod
          Rookie
          • Mar 2004
          • 387

          #244
          Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

          Perfectly put spankdatazz.

          I know this takes away from some of the "ultra-realism", but this is by far the closest to a perfect bball game I have EVER played. It has it's flaws I know, just like every game, but to swear off a game or company because of a glitch in an otherwise great game is ridiculous. Some have mentioned that VC doesn't care at all, but how do you explain why they went and FIXED alot of the things that YOU complained about last year? Plus, they do not have time reading and responding to every person that wants to complain and whine over trivial things. I hated last year's game with a passion, but they really made a lost bball game fan happy!

          If you vow to never buy ESPN or Live again due to this, or any other "bug", then I truely feel sorry for you. EVERY sports game has bugs, EVERY ONE, and I feel bad that you will never be able to play a sports game ever again and be truely happy with it.

          Bottom line, if you are this incredibly picky over every little thing, either don't buy a sports game ever again; or go find out how YOU can get into the business and change it so that all games released are "bug"-free.

          Comment

          • mogrod
            Rookie
            • Mar 2004
            • 387

            #245
            Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

            Perfectly put spankdatazz.

            I know this takes away from some of the "ultra-realism", but this is by far the closest to a perfect bball game I have EVER played. It has it's flaws I know, just like every game, but to swear off a game or company because of a glitch in an otherwise great game is ridiculous. Some have mentioned that VC doesn't care at all, but how do you explain why they went and FIXED alot of the things that YOU complained about last year? Plus, they do not have time reading and responding to every person that wants to complain and whine over trivial things. I hated last year's game with a passion, but they really made a lost bball game fan happy!

            If you vow to never buy ESPN or Live again due to this, or any other "bug", then I truely feel sorry for you. EVERY sports game has bugs, EVERY ONE, and I feel bad that you will never be able to play a sports game ever again and be truely happy with it.

            Bottom line, if you are this incredibly picky over every little thing, either don't buy a sports game ever again; or go find out how YOU can get into the business and change it so that all games released are "bug"-free.

            Comment

            • neovsmatrix
              MVP
              • Jul 2002
              • 2878

              #246
              Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

              Originally posted by mogrod
              Perfectly put spankdatazz.

              I know this takes away from some of the "ultra-realism", but this is by far the closest to a perfect bball game I have EVER played. It has it's flaws I know, just like every game, but to swear off a game or company because of a glitch in an otherwise great game is ridiculous. Some have mentioned that VC doesn't care at all, but how do you explain why they went and FIXED alot of the things that YOU complained about last year? Plus, they do not have time reading and responding to every person that wants to complain and whine over trivial things. I hated last year's game with a passion, but they really made a lost bball game fan happy!

              If you vow to never buy ESPN or Live again due to this, or any other "bug", then I truely feel sorry for you. EVERY sports game has bugs, EVERY ONE, and I feel bad that you will never be able to play a sports game ever again and be truely happy with it.

              Bottom line, if you are this incredibly picky over every little thing, either don't buy a sports game ever again; or go find out how YOU can get into the business and change it so that all games released are "bug"-free.
              Uh, the timeout bug isn't trivial. If you think it is, then you are seriously deluded. It WOULD have been a trivial bug if it weren't for the bad design decisions that were put in place to begin with. The fact that now close games mean zero tension is huge as the NBA has quite a few nailbiters where last second decision making determines the outcome.

              As I said before, games will have bugs, it's the TYPES of bugs that matter though. And this type of bug is not excusable.

              Comment

              • neovsmatrix
                MVP
                • Jul 2002
                • 2878

                #247
                Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

                Originally posted by mogrod
                Perfectly put spankdatazz.

                I know this takes away from some of the "ultra-realism", but this is by far the closest to a perfect bball game I have EVER played. It has it's flaws I know, just like every game, but to swear off a game or company because of a glitch in an otherwise great game is ridiculous. Some have mentioned that VC doesn't care at all, but how do you explain why they went and FIXED alot of the things that YOU complained about last year? Plus, they do not have time reading and responding to every person that wants to complain and whine over trivial things. I hated last year's game with a passion, but they really made a lost bball game fan happy!

                If you vow to never buy ESPN or Live again due to this, or any other "bug", then I truely feel sorry for you. EVERY sports game has bugs, EVERY ONE, and I feel bad that you will never be able to play a sports game ever again and be truely happy with it.

                Bottom line, if you are this incredibly picky over every little thing, either don't buy a sports game ever again; or go find out how YOU can get into the business and change it so that all games released are "bug"-free.
                Uh, the timeout bug isn't trivial. If you think it is, then you are seriously deluded. It WOULD have been a trivial bug if it weren't for the bad design decisions that were put in place to begin with. The fact that now close games mean zero tension is huge as the NBA has quite a few nailbiters where last second decision making determines the outcome.

                As I said before, games will have bugs, it's the TYPES of bugs that matter though. And this type of bug is not excusable.

                Comment

                • Admiral50
                  Banned
                  • Aug 2002
                  • 3311

                  #248
                  Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

                  Originally posted by monkey
                  And for those of us without XBox live...how does it get fixed???

                  I am too stunned to even comment...
                  I don't have Live either and never will. I remember the devs said in the in the interview back for 2K3 that all patches and roster updates will be put on the demo dvd with the official xbox/ps2 mags. I never saw that happen, but it's possible. A few other games have had their xbox live patch/update on the demo discs.

                  Comment

                  • Admiral50
                    Banned
                    • Aug 2002
                    • 3311

                    #249
                    Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

                    Originally posted by monkey
                    And for those of us without XBox live...how does it get fixed???

                    I am too stunned to even comment...
                    I don't have Live either and never will. I remember the devs said in the in the interview back for 2K3 that all patches and roster updates will be put on the demo dvd with the official xbox/ps2 mags. I never saw that happen, but it's possible. A few other games have had their xbox live patch/update on the demo discs.

                    Comment

                    • scamden311
                      Banned
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 907

                      #250
                      Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

                      Lets put it this way. Would it be trivial if the computer couldnt call timeouts in Madden? Same concept. Its a pretty big deal. I just really hope they patch this or recall it.

                      Comment

                      • scamden311
                        Banned
                        • Feb 2003
                        • 907

                        #251
                        Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

                        Lets put it this way. Would it be trivial if the computer couldnt call timeouts in Madden? Same concept. Its a pretty big deal. I just really hope they patch this or recall it.

                        Comment

                        • Admiral50
                          Banned
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 3311

                          #252
                          Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

                          Just wondering. Did anyone complain like this for Live last year?
                          You could call timeouts or get fouled and quickly inbound the ball before the defense was even ready and get a wide open shot a lot of the time

                          Comment

                          • Admiral50
                            Banned
                            • Aug 2002
                            • 3311

                            #253
                            Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

                            Just wondering. Did anyone complain like this for Live last year?
                            You could call timeouts or get fouled and quickly inbound the ball before the defense was even ready and get a wide open shot a lot of the time

                            Comment

                            • Jimplication
                              MVP
                              • Aug 2004
                              • 3591

                              #254
                              Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

                              I just got back from work and caught up on posts in this thread.

                              It's nice to see so many in agreement that this is a big deal; it's unfortunate to realize that VC will likely do nothing and not worry about fixing it until next year.

                              I rented Live earlier today, and I like it. It's a lot of fun, and I don't intend to threadjack or stir up trouble, but if you are discouraged about ESPN, please at least rent Live. It isn't a bad game by any means, and I'm really having a lot of fun playing it. I don't want to pursue this portion of my post, as it's off topic, but I wanted to at least recommend you check it out instead of giving up on console basketball this year.

                              I just can't get into the franchise in ESPN now. Timeouts are too big a deal, and given basketball's excitement and clock management when the game's on the line, I just feel like I am playing a flawed game at the most exciting and crucial point, and I therefore won't be playing the game, except for maybe online play.

                              It's really a bummer because the game is SO solid except for this; but I just can't get past this, so it doesn't matter how good the rest of the game is. If the basics aren't done right, everything else is meaningless IMO.

                              And I'll say it one more time: How. Can. They. Not. Notice. This. Before. The. Game. Ships?

                              It's so frustrating on multiple levels. Good game, marred by a small (but huge) glitch. A glitch that should not have made it passed testing, especially given the companies apparent understanding of the game of basketball. And the realization that VC probably will do nothing to fix it, and thus leave the people that paid money for their game stranded and left to either play a flawed product, or the competitor's product.

                              I like the $20 price tag, but right now, I'd rather have that $20 back to spend on another game, and that's tough to say because the game does so much right, and so little wrong. Unfortunately, the little mistakes are bigger than initially thought and thus the rest of the game will be left unexplored.

                              How many times does this happen? Honestly, why don't these companies truly test their games before they rush them out to sell more copies?
                              Enjoy football? Enjoy Goal Line Blitz!

                              Comment

                              • Jimplication
                                MVP
                                • Aug 2004
                                • 3591

                                #255
                                Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

                                I just got back from work and caught up on posts in this thread.

                                It's nice to see so many in agreement that this is a big deal; it's unfortunate to realize that VC will likely do nothing and not worry about fixing it until next year.

                                I rented Live earlier today, and I like it. It's a lot of fun, and I don't intend to threadjack or stir up trouble, but if you are discouraged about ESPN, please at least rent Live. It isn't a bad game by any means, and I'm really having a lot of fun playing it. I don't want to pursue this portion of my post, as it's off topic, but I wanted to at least recommend you check it out instead of giving up on console basketball this year.

                                I just can't get into the franchise in ESPN now. Timeouts are too big a deal, and given basketball's excitement and clock management when the game's on the line, I just feel like I am playing a flawed game at the most exciting and crucial point, and I therefore won't be playing the game, except for maybe online play.

                                It's really a bummer because the game is SO solid except for this; but I just can't get past this, so it doesn't matter how good the rest of the game is. If the basics aren't done right, everything else is meaningless IMO.

                                And I'll say it one more time: How. Can. They. Not. Notice. This. Before. The. Game. Ships?

                                It's so frustrating on multiple levels. Good game, marred by a small (but huge) glitch. A glitch that should not have made it passed testing, especially given the companies apparent understanding of the game of basketball. And the realization that VC probably will do nothing to fix it, and thus leave the people that paid money for their game stranded and left to either play a flawed product, or the competitor's product.

                                I like the $20 price tag, but right now, I'd rather have that $20 back to spend on another game, and that's tough to say because the game does so much right, and so little wrong. Unfortunately, the little mistakes are bigger than initially thought and thus the rest of the game will be left unexplored.

                                How many times does this happen? Honestly, why don't these companies truly test their games before they rush them out to sell more copies?
                                Enjoy football? Enjoy Goal Line Blitz!

                                Comment

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