Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

[MrPepper]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

it 's every weeks ?

[CitronsG6]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Well AH is not existent to me, I think it's because am used free markets like EAs Ultimate team that I would never get used to a restricted market like this one.... My current needs are leg dupes or stars, anything from Single legs downward is useless to me and the way AH is set up, it's more grind for me because I can't sell my current cards and can't get new ones cos of the cost. And let's not even talk about the robbery they call tax.

I understand they want to make money so the packs would have sell in order for that to happen, so why not make the packs interesting. For example, make certain cards very rare like maybe 100 of that particular card, not only would these cards be extreme valuable in AH and people would spend money to obtain these cards.

As the AH is right nw, all cards have the same value in their respective tiers thanks to the restrictions

[eVizions]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

I never understood the "well we have to keep minimums higher than packs" argument. No, you don't. Before AH, besides hot streaks, CD made their money on packs. Now, they make their money FROM AH. Obviously AH is going to damage pack sales, but the combined revenue is still likely to be greater. We shouldn't have to worry about packs not selling any more. I would guess that the only packs that sell right now are the specialty packs.

[eVizions]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Seeing as how that's how most cards seen to be selling... you're not getting any decent info at all by just "hitting search".

Well, we also can't judge by you selling your cards. I sell maybe 5-10% of what I put up there and I only put up cards that I think should sell and I usually put them up for the minimum. Viewing search may not be perfect, but it's a lot better than going by one person's experience.

But again, I do agree that it is hard to sell some of the cards... but where we disagree is that I think that's fine. I don't believe the AH should be a place to just turn all your unwanted cards into free credits. If that's what it was, everyone would have a dream deck in a week. It'd be stupid.

You're not magically turning cards into free credits. The credits have to come from somewhere. Credits don't just appear out of thin air, they need to be purchased ("free" credits are so few and far in between, even with the new season rewards). What AH does (or, really, SHOULD do) is provide an avenue for those credits to be spread around. If I buy 6500 credits, the majority of that should trickle down to other sellers. Currently, it's not. With a 30% tax, you are down to next to nothing very soon. If I spend my 6500 credits, the seller(s) only gets 4550 credits. If they spend it on something else, it's now down to 3185 that remains in the economy. That's over 50% lost in just 2 transactions. After another 2 transactions, it's down to 1560. Those credits need to be circulated better before dissipating.

As for the economics lesson, you're not saying anything I don't already know. Low minimums, and high BIN would not allow for trading in the strictest terms, but it would still create a market in which people got whatever they wanted for next to nothing. Not " trading" on a 1-to-1 with somebody, but we'd all essentially be trading with the house. The problem right now is that the market is overstated with EVERYTHING, except a small few types of cards. My argument is that, no matter what you do right now, that issue isn't gonna change. Now, CD COULD drop eliminate minimums, but then everyone would land a dream deck in a day or two. Then what?

Here's how it would go: players will likely first look to solidify their depth and get a few "higher end" cards. Then, they would look to move up a tier, where they would now add depth and repeat. Once you reach Star, you will want to first 5 Star Pros (for QG), then 10 (for seasons, assuming anyone still cares about that), then 15-25 (for RttC). Now what? Well now I have to start buying MVP and HOF packs to keep up with the top level players. Once I'm there, Playoff tier comes out. Rinse and repeat. It wouldn't end up with everyone having the same incredible, unbeatable deck.

Taking any action right now would be silly.

We will agree to disagree on this. Making some major changes to AH right now would re-energize the entire community.

More importantly right now, low minimums and high BIN isn't what most people here even want. They want low/no minimums, and low BIN. They want a "free market" so they can get everything they want for nothing, set up trades, etc.

Free market doesn't mean getting stuff for nothing. Just the opposite. And there wouldn't be much need for trades, either. People are doing trades right now because a) you have to pay to list and only have a very limited number of listings, so you have to be selective, and b) it's one of the only ways things will sell. If I could put a card up for next to nothing and let the market dictate the price, I'd have no need to trade or find a buyer.

[wodkalol]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

obviously action jack hasnt played FIFA UT or 2k15 myteam or he would know that u dont need fees for putting cards up or High minimums so stuff doesnt sell for free

supply and demand basic economics...

[Dextro]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Was there ever a thread like this after an update?
70+ pages full of different opinions

[ActionJack]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Well, we also can't judge by you selling your cards. I sell maybe 5-10% of what I put up there and I only put up cards that I think should sell and I usually put them up for the minimum. Viewing search may not be perfect, but it's a lot better than going by one person's experience.

Never once did I state, or even imply, that my experience was representative of the entire community. I simply stated my own experience as a counter to the idea that one person could encapsulate the entire community's experience, based on their inability to sell anything. The 5% number being thrown around is nonsense, pulled from nowhere. In fact, my whole point, ad already stated, is that I have no idea how many cards are selling... but neither does anybody else.

So... yeah... never even came close to saying what you think I'm saying. Try again.

You're not magically turning cards into free credits. The credits have to come from somewhere. Credits don't just appear out of thin air, they need to be purchased ("free" credits are so few and far in between, even with the new season rewards). What AH does (or, really, SHOULD do) is provide an avenue for those credits to be spread around. If I buy 6500 credits, the majority of that should trickle down to other sellers. Currently, it's not. With a 30% tax, you are down to next to nothing very soon. If I spend my 6500 credits, the seller(s) only gets 4550 credits. If they spend it on something else, it's now down to 3185 that remains in the economy. That's over 50% lost in just 2 transactions. After another 2 transactions, it's down to 1560. Those credits need to be circulated better before dissipating.

Why? You state that as if it's just undisputed fact that that's how things should go. Why should you buying credits mean that now I should have those credits too? That doesn't seem anywhere near as intuitive as you're trying to make it sound.

In any event, that's not even what I meant in talking about "free credits". I'm talking about the notion that I should be able to sell any and every card I get. To me, if the market for Jerry Lucas falls below the threshold of the minimums, and I can't sell him... oh well. The concept that I should be able to get SOMETHING for him, again, rings hollow to me. Why am I entitled to credits, just because I drafted/won a card?

Here's how it would go: players will likely first look to solidify their depth and get a few "higher end" cards. Then, they would look to move up a tier, where they would now add depth and repeat. Once you reach Star, you will want to first 5 Star Pros (for QG), then 10 (for seasons, assuming anyone still cares about that), then 15-25 (for RttC). Now what? Well now I have to start buying MVP and HOF packs to keep up with the top level players. Once I'm there, Playoff tier comes out. Rinse and repeat. It wouldn't end up with everyone having the same incredible, unbeatable deck.

Everyone would dupe their cards, for super cheap, super quickly. Especially the way card stats are in this game, there's such little difference between World B Free and Kyrie Irving. People would dupe "low end" cards they have, for next to nothing, and everyone would have a similar lineup in no time at all. You talk about cards having value, already WITH minimums, people's desperation us already overpowering that "value".

We will agree to disagree on this. Making some major changes to AH right now would re-energize the entire community.

For another two days.

Free market doesn't mean getting stuff for nothing. Just the opposite. And there wouldn't be much need for trades, either. People are doing trades right now because a) you have to pay to list and only have a very limited number of listings, so you have to be selective, and b) it's one of the only ways things will sell. If I could put a card up for next to nothing and let the market dictate the price, I'd have no need to trade or find a buyer.

Again, you're missing it.. and I'm not sure how...

I didn't use the term trade to mean people necessarily would set up deals explicitly beforehand. I mean Player A would sell their little Hot Rod Williams card for 1500, then buy a dupe Jeff Teague from Player B, who would buy Dikembe from Player C, who then buys something cheap as hell from Player A.

Obviously it's involving way more than 3 players, but it's the same thing. The entire community trades (30% tax on a tiny sale number, is still a tiny loss) amongst each other for super cheap, and everyone reaches the end.

And you can't tell me this isn't how things would GI, because the ENTIRE reason people are upset now, is because they can't do the VERY stuff I'm describing. That is the entire source of angst here. People want to get everything for super cheap, with no effort, and the game doesn't allow that, so they're mad. That is literally the entire issue here. I think it's silly.

[CedricFP]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

To me, if the market for Jerry Lucas falls below the threshold of the minimums, and I can't sell him... oh well. The concept that I should be able to get SOMETHING for him, again, rings hollow to me. Why am I entitled to credits, just because I drafted/won a card?

The point is that someone, somewhere, would pay something for Jerry Lucas, just not the minimum.

I'll take Bibby for 3k but not 6k. *shrug*

Because I can't buy Bibby for 3k, I won't buy him at all.

Therefore, Bibby is removed from my potential lineup.

Therefore, he loses all value.

Are you honestly arguing that, in a game based on playing cards, you have no problems with a certain subset of those cards having literally no value?

Edit: I guess I should say that I actually agree with you on the notion that everybody would dupe the unwanted stars for next to nothing. Because stat distribution is so similar, because largely season performance is based off energising, as well as whether you get an offensive quarter, the difference between having a Bibby as your starting PG or Kyrie as your starting PG is really fairly negligible.

With that said, I don't think that robbing a Henry Bibby of his entire creditary value is particular savvy, either.

Edit 2: But if CD are regulating the economy with minimums *because they don't want everybody to dupe Bibby's and World B Frees on the cheap, then doesn't that suggest a problem with the game design and balance to begin with?
* I don't believe this is the case; I just believe they're not keen on cannibalizing pack sales.

[Dextro]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

It is all about the total amount of credits flowing around. The higher the prices, the more trades you do the more credits getting killed for each transaction. If people sell and buy packs there is a chance that 100% of the credits are gone.

You can earn a few credits for free, but that is hilarious, if you compare it to the amount you need to spend.
FIFA is a bit different, you earn for each game and the more games you play the more credits you get. With those you can actually buy something.

But we need to buy credits first with real money, and the prices are way to high. I am German, I am Swabian so I really compare prices. In my eyes, if I would spend 100 Euro on a mobile app, I should own the whole game. And not just a few cards. We all know that the things changed, and there are a lot of guys who are willing to spend money on a unsure bet.

It is really not about the total amount of money, I am just asking myself is it worth or not. And in my eyes it is not, before I spend 100 Euro into one pack, I will stay 2 days longer on the Maldivian islands in May this year.

Lowering the tax and the minimum prices would help a bit, but to be honest you will never see a economy like in FIFA. And to be honest, FIFA limited it with the last update also.

If I compare prices for virtual currency (doesn´t matter if FIFA or NBA) we are far away from my ideal price. Means, the price where I say, yes that is fair. There are different studies out there, as everybody has an own price feeling. Mine is pretty well based on a few basic things like quality etc. and to be honest most of the virtual stuff feels like a rip-off to me.
And that is exactly why I don´t buy this stuff. Most of the companies overdraw it with their policies. So I won´t support them.

But, there are tons of others and they spend really big money on it. So each company has to measure it. I know guys who spend thousands of Euros into stuff like this.

[wodkalol]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

action jack is clearly paid by CD

u are talking about a virtual card game that is getting shut down in a few months. yet you are trying to defend their greed that is absoloutly out of control

why would the market for virtual cards need more restrictions than the stock market rofl?

[ActionJack]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Well, I also think that the community deciding Henry Bibby isn't worth 5K is a mistake, based on... well I'm not sure what.. because it surely isn't the stats.

But yeah, I don't believe it's a problem that his value falls below the threshold. If CD gives SOME sale value to every card, again, everyone gets full lineups REALLY quickly. The game can't sustain that. People make the argument that this benefits the dev, but only in the super short term. I also don't think it benefits the players in any way out of the super short term either, but that's just my opinion.

Cards having a higher cost is a prohibitive measure that, to me, makes sense. Once World B Free Pro becomes available for 3K, that has a huge impact on everything else. I'm not sure what would happen honestly. This community is funny. For all the whining cheapskates, there are some people willing to spend a crazy amount. Either cards like Lebron Star would plummet in price, since everything has been devalued, or it would skyrocket, because the crazy spenders would place a premium on the tiny boost in stats he provides.

It's almost worth freeing up the market, just to observe that... but no.

No, I haven't played FIFA, but, if the system you guys are describing in FIFA actually works for both the players and the developer, I'm sure there are large differences in the game itself, or the ecosystem surrounding it, that allow it to work.

[eVizions]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Never once did I state, or even imply, that my experience was representative of the entire community. I simply stated my own experience as a counter to the idea that one person could encapsulate the entire community's experience, based on their inability to sell anything. The 5% number being thrown around is nonsense, pulled from nowhere. In fact, my whole point, ad already stated, is that I have no idea how many cards are selling... but neither does anybody else.

So... yeah... never even came close to saying what you think I'm saying. Try again.

Go do a search. While it won't take into account BIN and last second snipes, it's a pretty good representation of the market. Whatever that true number is, I would bet it's closer to 5% than what you think it is. The fact is that the market is broken.

Why? You state that as if it's just undisputed fact that that's how things should go. Why should you buying credits mean that now I should have those credits too? That doesn't seem anywhere near as intuitive as you're trying to make it sound.

Why? Because that's how any economy, real or virtual, works. If all you wanted was a mechanism to allow people who buy credits to get things, then they should've left it as it was prior to AH. The introduction of a virtual economy means credits flowing around from person to person. This is basic economics, so if you can't follow this logic, then the rest likely won't make sense, either. There are probably some great resources out there to start looking into how this all works.

In any event, that's not even what I meant in talking about "free credits". I'm talking about the notion that I should be able to sell any and every card I get. To me, if the market for Jerry Lucas falls below the threshold of the minimums, and I can't sell him... oh well. The concept that I should be able to get SOMETHING for him, again, rings hollow to me. Why am I entitled to credits, just because I drafted/won a card?

Everything should have the *ability* to have a value. What that value is should be dependent on the buyer and seller. If a card isn't selling because there is more supply than demand (or if there is no demand at all), that's one thing, but if it's not selling because the threshold is too high, then the system is broken. The argument isn't whether you are entitled to credits, but whether you have the ability to earn something for your asset. A World B. Free has a value. I'd like to sell it for that value, but the system restricts me, not the market.

Everyone would dupe their cards, for super cheap, super quickly. Especially the way card stats are in this game, there's such little difference between World B Free and Kyrie Irving. People would dupe "low end" cards they have, for next to nothing, and everyone would have a similar lineup in no time at all. You talk about cards having value, already WITH minimums, people's desperation us already overpowering that "value".

If there's such little difference between Kyrie and WBF, then why does Kyrie go for 8k, while WBF can't be sold? Again, this would introduce more pros into the system, but we just recently got a mode that utilizes 25 cards. It wouldn't break the game, especially since the next level is MVP/HOF, which can't be auctioned. Also, Playoff tier appears to be coming soon and we have to start all over.
[/QUOTE]

For another two days.

If they do it right, the model will keep us involved for awhile. Take a look at FUT. That market is still going strong.

Again, you're missing it.. and I'm not sure how...

I didn't use the term trade to mean people necessarily would set up deals explicitly beforehand. I mean Player A would sell their little Hot Rod Williams card for 1500, then buy a dupe Jeff Teague from Player B, who would buy Dikembe from Player C, who then buys something cheap as hell from Player A.

Obviously it's involving way more than 3 players, but it's the same thing. The entire community trades (30% tax on a tiny sale number, is still a tiny loss) amongst each other for super cheap, and everyone reaches the end.

Where are you getting "super cheap" from? Worst case scenario, the prices for unsellable cards drop to 50% of what they are right now. That's still not cheap. Also, that gives the seller less money to use their next purchase. It all evens out. It gives us more bang for our buck ($50 for one card is extreme) and CD makes out on the bulk transactions, as more people are involved and more transactions are actually happening.

And you can't tell me this isn't how things would GI, because the ENTIRE reason people are upset now, is because they can't do the VERY stuff I'm describing. That is the entire source of angst here. People want to get everything for super cheap, with no effort, and the game doesn't allow that, so they're mad. That is literally the entire issue here. I think it's silly.

I'm glad you think it's silly. You're also arguing with someone who has pumped a ridiculous amount of money into this game. I'm not looking for freebies, I'm looking for fun. I'll pay for fun. A strong economic model and a good market are fun. This is neither.

[eVizions]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Well, I also think that the community deciding Henry Bibby isn't worth 5K is a mistake, based on... well I'm not sure what.. because it surely isn't the stats.

That's the beauty of the system. It doesn't matter what the reason is. If people value one card over another, that sets the market. No external force should set or influence this process too much. Let the market work itself out.

But yeah, I don't believe it's a problem that his value falls below the threshold. If CD gives SOME sale value to every card, again, everyone gets full lineups REALLY quickly. The game can't sustain that. People make the argument that this benefits the dev, but only in the super short term. I also don't think it benefits the players in any way out of the super short term either, but that's just my opinion.

I don't think CD should give value to a card at all. I think they should let the market set the value. Let us figure out what Bibby or Free are worth. Will that mean more purchases of Bibby, meaning more Bibby Pros? Yes. Will that mean a decrease in the value of any of the more valuable cards? Nope. I'd buy Bibby and dup him for 3k as like my 4th or 5th PG. All that means is I'm spending 3k more than what I am right now. I have 11k right now and I have nothing to spend it on. Stars are worthless and there's no resale value.

Cards having a higher cost is a prohibitive measure that, to me, makes sense. Once World B Free Pro becomes available for 3K, that has a huge impact on everything else. I'm not sure what would happen honestly. This community is funny. For all the whining cheapskates, there are some people willing to spend a crazy amount. Either cards like Lebron Star would plummet in price, since everything has been devalued, or it would skyrocket, because the crazy spenders would place a premium on the tiny boost in stats he provides.

The market isn't driven by the big spenders, surprisingly. It's driven by the middle class. If that middle class each buys $20 more than they otherwise would have, you're talking about a ton of cash (for CD) and credits (into the economy). Significantly more than the upper class can generate. More buyers (either by buying credits or by getting credits from what you've sold) means prices in general will rise.

It's almost worth freeing up the market, just to observe that... but no.

Why not? Try it for the rest of this season. If it bombs, don't even both having an AH next year. If it takes off, like I believe it will, you've made everyone happy.

No, I haven't played FIFA, but, if the system you guys are describing in FIFA actually works for both the players and the developer, I'm sure there are large differences in the game itself, or the ecosystem surrounding it, that allow it to work.

You should give it a try. It's phenomenal. 5% tax, no listing fee, auctions as short as an hour, low minimums and bins, you can list like 30+ cards at a time, etc. I used to spend hours just buying and selling on the market (5% on each transaction). Granted, there are definitely more users in that ecosystem, but this one is large enough to sustain the same economic model.

[CitronsG6]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

That's the beauty of the system. It doesn't matter what the reason is. If people value one card over another, that sets the market. No external force should set or influence this process too much. Let the market work itself out.



I don't think CD should give value to a card at all. I think they should let the market set the value. Let us figure out what Bibby or Free are worth. Will that mean more purchases of Bibby, meaning more Bibby Pros? Yes. Will that mean a decrease in the value of any of the more valuable cards? Nope. I'd buy Bibby and dup him for 3k as like my 4th or 5th PG. All that means is I'm spending 3k more than what I am right now. I have 11k right now and I have nothing to spend it on. Stars are worthless and there's no resale value.



The market isn't driven by the big spenders, surprisingly. It's driven by the middle class. If that middle class each buys $20 more than they otherwise would have, you're talking about a ton of cash (for CD) and credits (into the economy). Significantly more than the upper class can generate. More buyers (either by buying credits or by getting credits from what you've sold) means prices in general will rise.



Why not? Try it for the rest of this season. If it bombs, don't even both having an AH next year. If it takes off, like I believe it will, you've made everyone happy.



You should give it a try. It's phenomenal. 5% tax, no listing fee, auctions as short as an hour, low minimums and bins, you can list like 30+ cards at a time, etc. I used to spend hours just buying and selling on the market (5% on each transaction). Granted, there are definitely more users in that ecosystem, but this one is large enough to sustain the same economic model.

Plus the market dictates the price of cards which sale for upto 15mil coins. ActionJack, watch some YouTube videos of pack openings and you would understand where we are coming from.

[ActionJack]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Go do a search. While it won't take into account BIN and last second snipes, it's a pretty good representation of the market. Whatever that true number is, I would bet it's closer to 5% than what you think it is. The fact is that the market is broken.

I don't "think" the number is anything. I think none of us know what the number is, so trying to come up with sweeping changes is silly.

And doing a search is a HORRIBLE way to determine how the market is performing. A search defaults to show what us ending soonest.. meaning you are SPECIFICALLY looking at the cards that aren't selling. You can't see BINs, and you can't see snipes. That's how most things sell, seemingly.

Why? Because that's how any economy, real or virtual, works. If all you wanted was a mechanism to allow people who buy credits to get things, then they should've left it as it was prior to AH. The introduction of a virtual economy means credits flowing around from person to person. This is basic economics, so if you can't follow this logic, then the rest likely won't make sense, either. There are probably some great resources out there to start looking into how this all works.

You're describing a free market. As you've astutely pointed out already, this isn't one. Your argument is based entirely on your desire to make it one, but you're not giving much reason other than the fact that you want it.

In this economy, the free flowing of funds isn't the goal. The goal is for funds to be purchased, used, and returned to the seller. That's what CD wants. That's why the tax is there, that's why MVP packs exist, that's the reason for almost anything that goes on.

You argue that this reality is stifling the market, and that CD would benefit from opening up the market to more transactions... but in the next breath you kinda contradict yourself by talking about how funds should recycle at a MUCH higher rate. Essentially, you want one credit purchase to pay for a bunch of transactions, but the reality is that there aren't that many transactions to go around. The game doesn't have THAT many cards or THAT many positions in which to put them.

Everything should have the *ability* to have a value. What that value is should be dependent on the buyer and seller. If a card isn't selling because there is more supply than demand (or if there is no demand at all), that's one thing, but if it's not selling because the threshold is too high, then the system is broken. The argument isn't whether you are entitled to credits, but whether you have the ability to earn something for your asset. A World B. Free has a value. I'd like to sell it for that value, but the system restricts me, not the market.

Again.. It's a lot of free-market idealism here.. with no real WHY. You want a free market because... you want a free market. That's not reason enough.

If there's such little difference between Kyrie and WBF, then why does Kyrie go for 8k, while WBF can't be sold?[/quote

This is actually easy to answer. People are stupid. That's it.

Again, this would introduce more pros into the system, but we just recently got a mode that utilizes 25 cards. It wouldn't break the game, especially since the next level is MVP/HOF, which can't be auctioned. Also, Playoff tier appears to be coming soon and we have to start all over.

Why do you think RttC came out just now? It came out BECAUSE the AH, even as it is, is not prohibitive enough to prevent people from racking up 10-15 pros easily. If you take the restraints off, 25 would come down pretty damn easily too.

If they do it right, the model will keep us involved for awhile. Take a look at FUT. That market is still going strong.

Again... I can't take that anecdotally. Maybe I'll look into what's different about the games (probably not...). I'm SURE FIFA has a much larger user base though. I'm certain of that. That plays in. Soccer requires more players... I did download the app last year, and they had a feature that incentivized having particular players play with each other.. that plays into it.. I'm sure there are ALL SORTS of differences besides just the market rates, that play into that ecosystem working however well it does (again.. not gonna take your word that it's doing great, unless you show me the emails you personally get from EA).

Where are you getting "super cheap" from? Worst case scenario, the prices for unsellable cards drop to 50% of what they are right now. That's still not cheap. Also, that gives the seller less money to use their next purchase. It all evens out. It gives us more bang for our buck ($50 for one card is extreme) and CD makes out on the bulk transactions, as more people are involved and more transactions are actually happening.

I'm getting "super cheap" from looking around here and seeing people looking like Chris Rock from New Jack City, trying to get their cards off. I'm seeing people do buyback deals that net themselves pennies for quality cards. This isn't speculation. It's already happening... and it's happening in an environment where it doesn't even benefit the people engaging in those practices. If the system ACTUALLY benefitted those deals (as a free market would), it's a GUARANTEE there'd be super cheap Star Pros left and right.

I'm glad you think it's silly. You're also arguing with someone who has pumped a ridiculous amount of money into this game. I'm not looking for freebies, I'm looking for fun. I'll pay for fun. A strong economic model and a good market are fun. This is neither.

But you really are looking for freebies though. Regardless of whatever you've spent before, the entire argument is this: all of our cards should have value, so that they can be sold, so that we can use those funds to purchase the cards we actually want.

If you draft Hot Rod Williams, you feel like you should be able to trade it in to eventually somebody like Anthony Davis. I, personally, don't agree with that sentiment.

That's the beauty of the system. It doesn't matter what the reason is. If people value one card over another, that sets the market. No external force should set or influence this process too much. Let the market work itself out.



I don't think CD should give value to a card at all. I think they should let the market set the value. Let us figure out what Bibby or Free are worth. Will that mean more purchases of Bibby, meaning more Bibby Pros? Yes. Will that mean a decrease in the value of any of the more valuable cards? Nope. I'd buy Bibby and dup him for 3k as like my 4th or 5th PG. All that means is I'm spending 3k more than what I am right now. I have 11k right now and I have nothing to spend it on. Stars are worthless and there's no resale value.



The market isn't driven by the big spenders, surprisingly. It's driven by the middle class. If that middle class each buys $20 more than they otherwise would have, you're talking about a ton of cash (for CD) and credits (into the economy). Significantly more than the upper class can generate. More buyers (either by buying credits or by getting credits from what you've sold) means prices in general will rise.



Why not? Try it for the rest of this season. If it bombs, don't even both having an AH next year. If it takes off, like I believe it will, you've made everyone happy.



You should give it a try. It's phenomenal. 5% tax, no listing fee, auctions as short as an hour, low minimums and bins, you can list like 30+ cards at a time, etc. I used to spend hours just buying and selling on the market (5% on each transaction). Granted, there are definitely more users in that ecosystem, but this one is large enough to sustain the same economic model.

I think you're grossly overestimating what people are willing to spend on this game.

I think if you create a system in which people can essentially trade in their free cards, for better cards, more money is NOT gonna be pumped into the system. People are gonna get their cards, for free, then stop. That's it.

The people that already pay, may keep paying on some level, but you're not gonna create new converts by opening up the system. You're just gonna create chaos.

And as an aside, I think your argument that the upper class doesn't serve as a market force is wrong. Single Lebron cards go for 10K. They go for that much because big spenders were buying them, to begin with. How else? Free players with no credits, or guys willing to spend $5-10 here and there had 10K credits just chilling there when the AH opened?

I doubt it. Big spenders have a large effect on this market.