Ask the devs : Physics

[rEAnimator]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

Please tell me its possible to get injured in-game if a player just keeps running straight into defenders this time?? At least make them less effetive or something...because in live 10 I got tired of being happy that Lebron was hurt....for 3 seconds...then he comes back shooting 3's as if nothing was wrong. Could injuries sorta be like madden's?<!-- / message -->

Sorry, but I don't have a lot of information on the plans for injuries.

I'll pass you're ideas on to the guy working on injuries though.

Thanks.

[Xuriath]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

Aw...Ok Thanks for letting me know. Injuries would really change up how people keep running at the defenders in hope of a foul, and would make the game great.

[rEAnimator]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

Aw...Ok Thanks for letting me know. Injuries would really change up how people keep running at the defenders in hope of a foul, and would make the game great.

We have done a lot of work on balancing offense/defense.

I'm pretty sure the problem you mention has been fixed through a more balanced approach to designing the features in the game.

As it stands right now, running the dribbler directly into a defender is not an effective strategy at all.

The only thing it would accomplish it to leave yourself open for a charging foul if the defender chose to take the charge.

But even if he didn't, if you just hold your ground as a defender, the dribbler will not get into an advantageous situation by simply running into you.

[dirtypuppet]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

rEAnimator, I've read your comments a couple of times stating the the offensive players can be affected by physics when going up for a layup/dunk, yet no video is showing any evidence of this so far. All scenarios scene so far is more of a defender taking impact, but the offensive players animation remaining in tact. (notably, when Lebron and KD have shot contested layups, they just maybe slid to the side when contested, but haven't looked affected)

I know these are earlier builds of the game, so has this not been implicated in any footage seen thus far?

If it works out as you've described, I can image this variation within the animations will keep things fresh and make things seem a lot more physical.

Thanks. (good luck, hope you get it right)

[rEAnimator]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

rEAnimator, I've read your comments a couple of times stating the the offensive players can be affected by physics when going up for a layup/dunk, yet no video is showing any evidence of this so far. All scenarios scene so far is more of a defender taking impact, but the offensive players animation remaining in tact. (notably, when Lebron and KD have shot contested layups, they just maybe slid to the side when contested, but haven't looked affected)

I know these are earlier builds of the game, so has this not been implicated in any footage seen thus far?

If it works out as you've described, I can image this variation within the animations will keep things fresh and make things seem a lot more physical.

Thanks. (good luck, hope you get it right)

You'll see footage on this eventually...but I'm not sure when.

I see it every day, and I've got some clips I wish I could show you guys. Unfortunately you'll just have to be patient for now.

They'll be plenty of time to see the video evidence and verify for yourself in the demo before the game hits the stores.

And yes, it definitely adds to the replay value of the game.

I can't wait until this game is released to the masses. I'm really looking forward to seeing some of the crazy things that happen and post videos of.

With the emergent gameplay in Elite, I'm certain we'll see things post ship that we never thought possible before while the game was in development.

[dirtypuppet]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

Great to hear such enthusiasm and positivity.

[mharlem]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

rEAnimator

If its not already in the game, what do you think about having control over players body while dunking and shooting lay ups?

Being able to lean in different directions will be a great addition to help avoid defenders and it will add more style to dunks and lay ups.

[rEAnimator]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

I posted the following in a different thread in response to questions about sim vs. arcade and how to categorize Elite.

I thought it best to move the discussion to this thread as it really goes to the heart of why we chose to move to using physics this year.

---

If you'll indulge me, I'd like to throw out an observation I've made and see what people think.

I think we can all agree that a game like NBA Street or NBA Jam are arcade basketball games. They bend the rules of the game and bend the rules of physics to deliver a more over the top experience. And as you pointed out, games like these tend to have a high pace as well.

For me, Elite and Live are both basketball sim games. But they approach the sim experience from very different places.

I see them living on a spectrum.

On the left hand side you've got yourself in real life playing as a basketball player in the NBA.

On the far right you've got yourself watching an NBA game on TV.

If you were to write a basketball simulation, you could start on either end of that spectrum.

Do you recreate the outcomes you see on television using statistics and probabilities, and then present those outcomes by playing back appropriate animations that were captured in a mocap studio?

Or do you try and recreate the physics of everything involved in the simulation to the most tiny detail?

As you move from pure simulation to a video game, you move from either the left or the right towards a middle ground.

Coming from the right hand side, you start to allow the user to interact with the simulation by calling the plays, making the substitutions, maybe telling players when to perform certain actions. The players are still themselves, performing the actions as they see fit, but they are taking direction from the user.

Coming from the left hand side, they allow the user to manipulate the physical objects in the simulation. Moving the legs and arms like a marionette. You have the physical capabilities of the person you are controlling, but you have complete control over what happens.

Obviously neither of these examples exist in real life, but I think they help paint a picture of the spectrum I see the games lying on. I think both games are sim games, what what they are simulating and how they simulate it are different.

You can probably guess that in my opinion, Live is more to the right on that spectrum, and Elite is more to the left on the spectrum.

Neither game is arcade, and neither game is "more sim" than the other.

It's just that their priorities and how they decide to simulate the world of basketball is different.

This year we're focusing more on controls and simulating the physics of the world. That's what makes Elite unique and that much more different from Live.

So when you watch videos, you may think Live "looks more realistic", but don't be fooled by the beauty of a perfectly mocapped two player animation.

There's a lot more going on under the hood when you're simulating the physics, and I'd personally take a dynamic physically simulated game with great controls but a few visual warts, over a picture perfect two player animation based game that has less responsive controls and fewer outcomes.

But this is all just my personal take on things.

I'd love to hear what others think.

[rEAnimator]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

rEAnimator

If its not already in the game, what do you think about having control over players body while dunking and shooting lay ups?

Being able to lean in different directions will be a great addition to help avoid defenders and it will add more style to dunks and lay ups.

I think that's a great idea. We currently support adjusting to the left or right, but having more in air controls would be a nice addition.

Likely we won't get to that this years as we have many core things to finish off. I suspect the main in air controls for dunks will remain the adjust, plus maybe a few other goodies.

This is definitely something we can expand on next year though.

[Dalsanto0026]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

I posted the following in a different thread in response to questions about sim vs. arcade and how to categorize Elite.

I thought it best to move the discussion to this thread as it really goes to the heart of why we chose to move to using physics this year.

---

If you'll indulge me, I'd like to throw out an observation I've made and see what people think.

I think we can all agree that a game like NBA Street or NBA Jam are arcade basketball games. They bend the rules of the game and bend the rules of physics to deliver a more over the top experience. And as you pointed out, games like these tend to have a high pace as well.

For me, Elite and Live are both basketball sim games. But they approach the sim experience from very different places.

I see them living on a spectrum.

On the left hand side you've got yourself in real life playing as a basketball player in the NBA.

On the far right you've got yourself watching an NBA game on TV.

If you were to write a basketball simulation, you could start on either end of that spectrum.

Do you recreate the outcomes you see on television using statistics and probabilities, and then present those outcomes by playing back appropriate animations that were captured in a mocap studio?

Or do you try and recreate the physics of everything involved in the simulation to the most tiny detail?

As you move from pure simulation to a video game, you move from either the left or the right towards a middle ground.

Coming from the right hand side, you start to allow the user to interact with the simulation by calling the plays, making the substitutions, maybe telling players when to perform certain actions. The players are still themselves, performing the actions as they see fit, but they are taking direction from the user.

Coming from the left hand side, they allow the user to manipulate the physical objects in the simulation. Moving the legs and arms like a marionette. You have the physical capabilities of the person you are controlling, but you have complete control over what happens.

Obviously neither of these examples exist in real life, but I think they help paint a picture of the spectrum I see the games lying on. I think both games are sim games, what what they are simulating and how they simulate it are different.

You can probably guess that in my opinion, Live is more to the right on that spectrum, and Elite is more to the left on the spectrum.

Neither game is arcade, and neither game is "more sim" than the other.

It's just that their priorities and how they decide to simulate the world of basketball is different.

This year we're focusing more on controls and simulating the physics of the world. That's what makes Elite unique and that much more different from Live.

So when you watch videos, you may think Live "looks more realistic", but don't be fooled by the beauty of a perfectly mocapped two player animation.

There's a lot more going on under the hood when you're simulating the physics, and I'd personally take a dynamic physically simulated game with great controls but a few visual warts, over a picture perfect two player animation based game that has less responsive controls and fewer outcomes.

But this is all just my personal take on things.

I'd love to hear what others think.

That's a very good description. The direction for Elite 11 does make a lot of sense.

I look forward to playing this.

[Live Boii]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

i for one am excited just due to the feedback that you guys are providing. your dedication has got me checking the forums for info every hour on the hour.

but due to animations being dynamic i would like to ask how many different in air collisions do you think will be in the game?

also. will we see contact on putbacks and ally-oops?

[Admiral50]

Re: Ask the devs : AI/Physics

There are no preset animations for that. The way it works is we simulate the physics, and the impact from the physics feeds back into the animation system.

So if a player gets hit mid air from behind, you'll see an appropriate response from the physics and animations for the player.

If he's then hit from the right, you'll see another reaction.

It doesn't matter what's hitting him, or when.

You should always see an appropriate reaction and physical response.

Nothing is prescripted, the animations play in response to the physics.

I'll have to hold you to those statements. This could be huge for a game of bball.

I do have to ask though... will there be totally new (never seen or used before in an NBA Live) animations to represent the new types of contact?

From what we've seen in the early clips, it's 99% old animation.

I'm sure the game with new control and new physics will be a huge improvement, but I honestly feel you'll be missing out on a massive amount of sales if the graphics and animation especially, aren't new.

[jlbrown143]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

This is probably a silly question but I will ask it anyways...is it to much of a hassle for you guys to put real hair physics in the game or hands that move like human hands? (just curious)

Also since you guys have timeouts in the game, why can't we hear or see what the coach is stressing for the team to adjust to (real time) as far as in game adjustments..say like the team is getting beat on the boards or having too many turnovers...is that too time consuming to implement or is it just not needed? ( I would love to see something like a star player getting chewd out for not producing..lol)

will the crowd be pretty much the same as we have seen in recent years or is there something new that we can look forward to as far as their responses to certain plays or actions on the court? like a player getting foulded hard? or a player getting a nice block? or a monster dunk that turns the game in the other teams favor?

[jaosming]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

This is probably a silly question but I will ask it anyways...is it to much of a hassle for you guys to put real hair physics in the game or hands that move like human hands? (just curious)

I think Live 06 (360) had hair physics....one of the older ones did at least.



If we were to play as shaq, give him 99 ratings in speed and quickness, would we be able to just plow into the offensive players and throw them down due to the physics at work? Or would an animation play out where shaq would swim around the offensive player?

What about on fast breaks? Would "mega" Shaq physics destroy a PG going up for a layup if he just ran into the layup animation rather than flicking up to go for the block?

Are you adding player interactions with the crowd/press/backboard/side dorna/bench/refs/coaches etc etc etc? What about the ball? Can we block it into the crowd now instead of that invisible wall?

How about animations that would normally go through the rim/backboard (some dunks, blocks, rebounds) Will the player's hand now slap the backboard if going for a chase down block instead of going through the backboard? Or if Birdman is going to weak side help block someone on the other side of the rim, will his hand continue to go right through the rim like in old games or will his block attempt be denied by the rim?

A short video like that NHL physics one that was released today would be awesome to see.

Thanks

[dexvex]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

I think Live 06 (360) had hair physics....one of the older ones did at least.



If we were to play as shaq, give him 99 ratings in speed and quickness, would we be able to just plow into the offensive players and throw them down due to the physics at work? Or would an animation play out where shaq would swim around the offensive player?

What about on fast breaks? Would "mega" Shaq physics destroy a PG going up for a layup if he just ran into the layup animation rather than flicking up to go for the block?

Are you adding player interactions with the crowd/press/backboard/side dorna/bench/refs/coaches etc etc etc? What about the ball? Can we block it into the crowd now instead of that invisible wall?

How about animations that would normally go through the rim/backboard (some dunks, blocks, rebounds) Will the player's hand now slap the backboard if going for a chase down block instead of going through the backboard? Or if Birdman is going to weak side help block someone on the other side of the rim, will his hand continue to go right through the rim like in old games or will his block attempt be denied by the rim?

A short video like that NHL physics one that was released today would be awesome to see.

Thanks

wow thanks for telling me about that video. It was really impressive...