Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

[HOLLIDAY1183]

Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

Don't want to start a new thread about this so here's something LIVE fans should be checking out.
EA Sports moderator/Advisory Council member CLUEMINATI has a running journal/blog primarily dedicated to his interaction with the new LIVE project.

http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/8410785.page

The last paragraph of his last entry restates what many have been calling for all along in this 3 year wait.

To make this the truest post I have ever said to close this out. I have spoke about this besides that document I have sent to my CM, and I have serious thoughts about it that it's damn true. If you feel me on this just say co-sign because I have vented too much outside my element being a true poster not a moderator tonight. No game is perfect in the basketball world because you and I know it. It's not like how MLB: The Show, Madden, NHL, Tiger Woods' PGA Golf, & FIFA just flat out sell on the market. I personally do believe what I am about to say... You may think it's corny, but it's a better option. Mike Wang brought his knowledge to 2K and EA at the time because of the success of Kobe Bryant's Courtside Basketball. Ryan Santos is incredible too alongside Jeff Antwi back in EA Canada, and I give props to the guys down in EA Tiburon doing something with the game plus bringing it back. My thought now is NBA LIVE 10 should've been pollished, fine tuned, tweaked, adjusted, and damn sure re-advancing the engine that can go NextGen instead of what I've been seeing. Next event... Who knows? I'm only saying this as a poster.

Hopefully I won't get shut down from my statement.. Because I am sharing this with you guys.

Just read through that thread, and boy is it a sad situation. It literally looks and reads as if he's writing with one hand and a bottle of something 80 proof in the other. Almost completely incoherent. Random anti-2K outbursts followed by 2K praise, and just tortured that he can't just vent and say what we all know by now about Live 13, being under NDA.

But he clearly believes, as do 99% of us who grew up on Live and EA Basketball, that Live 10 should have been the base to start from. The fact it was not is personally the biggest since seeing the first Elite footage.

I STILL think EA should go back and start working from where Live 10 left off. It's NOT too late, and after popping it in earlier, I think it's still way ahead of anything they've shown since. I doubt this notion that Wang owns IP relating to Live 10 completely.

But like someone here said, vision is as important as anything.

[Sports fanantic]

Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

To me, NBA Live 2004 will be the best out of this series because of Dynasty Mode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6JiphKoXS0

[HOLLIDAY1183]

Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

To me, NBA Live 2004 will be the best out of this series because of Dynasty Mode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6JiphKoXS0

Sad that for many of us, our favorite Live, or shall I say "Most feature complete" NBA Live resides on hardware from 1, 2, or even 3 generations ago.

I know Live 10 wasn't the BEST game it could have been, but it was so much fun, esp User VS User. I spent half that season salivating at the thought of a polished fully fleshed out NBA Live 11, building off of 10. More SIG stuff. Synergy improved. More animations. Improved post game. Continued solid online performance.

Then.... that press release and interview with Wang back at 2K in like Feb/March. Not the fact of him leaving EA really, but the reasons he stated, stuck with me all that year. I knew deep down they were doing another "reboot" which I felt was completely unnecessary. I just knew we weren't going to get Live 10 polished and fleshed out. I know many of you here probably felt the same thing.

It's the same feeling I got back when I first saw Live 06 on 360, my jaw dropped. Not polished, no player emotion, LOTS of sliding, camera didn't keep up with the action.... but I still played all year with the anticipation that if they just iron stuff out it will be amazing, the base of what they had was just mind blowing to me.... then Live 07 came out and crushed all my hopes. It was the biggest WTF moment I've ever experienced in gaming. I actually felt bad cuz me & my roommate at school made a deal (we were so broke) that he'd buy Live and I'd get 2K7 and we'd share both. But he basically wasted $60.

This thread just brings it all back, lol. I was hurt by EA hard twice this gen. Sorry y'all I'm venting a bit. But my one hope is that EA does exactly what this thread implies it can't (malarkey to me personally) and goes back to Live 10 and at the very least give us what I'm sure many of us hoped Live 11 would have been had they stuck with it.

Release Live 13, come clean about missteps, take the absolute beating from the community, the press, and the competition, swallow their pride.... and get hard to work Oct. 3rd on Live 10's true successor.

[kingpnp3]

Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

Just wondering if anybody can touch on what happens usually in situations like Wangs with EA. I thought companies as big as Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc...owned the technology, ideas, and patents developed by their employees.
How was Wang able to hold on to his intellectual property (game engine) after leaving EA? This is not a common occurrence.

the only way wang was able to hang on to his IP stuff like that is if that was in his contract. remember EA begged the guy to come over. so that tells me its possible that he had that in his contract.

[kingpnp3]

Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

Just read through that thread, and boy is it a sad situation. It literally looks and reads as if he's writing with one hand and a bottle of something 80 proof in the other. Almost completely incoherent. Random anti-2K outbursts followed by 2K praise, and just tortured that he can't just vent and say what we all know by now about Live 13, being under NDA.

But he clearly believes, as do 99% of us who grew up on Live and EA Basketball, that Live 10 should have been the base to start from. The fact it was not is personally the biggest since seeing the first Elite footage.

I STILL think EA should go back and start working from where Live 10 left off. It's NOT too late, and after popping it in earlier, I think it's still way ahead of anything they've shown since. I doubt this notion that Wang owns IP relating to Live 10 completely.

But like someone here said, vision is as important as anything.

live 10 should not have been the base. even though it was the best live since like 2006 or so. it still needed TONS of work. and i understood why they went the real time physics way with ELITE. they realized. there was no way they could catchup. to 2k in the animations dept. 2k had to big of a vault of animations. they STATED this themselves. please someone find the article.

so they put up the white flag to a game engine based off of animations(canned). and they decided to start anew. to start something that if perfected properly. would've blown 2k out of the water and 2k would've never recovered. because one thing is for sure. 2k is still using that same engine from like 2k8. sure they are figuring ways out to extend its lifecycle. but certain things are showing that engine is old and its time for a new one. 2k is afraid to go that route for fear of having a LIVE problem.

[jsg]

Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

live 10 should not have been the base. even though it was the best live since like 2006 or so. it still needed TONS of work. and i understood why they went the real time physics way with ELITE. they realized. there was no way they could catchup. to 2k in the animations dept. 2k had to big of a vault of animations. they STATED this themselves. please someone find the article.

so they put up the white flag to a game engine based off of animations(canned). and they decided to start anew. to start something that if perfected properly. would've blown 2k out of the water and 2k would've never recovered. because one thing is for sure. 2k is still using that same engine from like 2k8. sure they are figuring ways out to extend its lifecycle. but certain things are showing that engine is old and its time for a new one. 2k is afraid to go that route for fear of having a LIVE problem.

Do you really believe what you are typing?

Anyways, I really hope an employee is keeping track of everything and writes a blog about this situation when they quit. I want to know everything from Mike Wang joining EA to everything that's going on now.

[HOLLIDAY1183]

Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

Do you really believe what you are typing?

Anyways, I really hope an employee is keeping track of everything and writes a blog about this situation when they quit. I want to know everything from Mike Wang joining EA to everything that's going on now.

I tend not to hold court with a lot of the ridiculousness that gets posted on here; sometimes it's difficult not to, particularly (and surprisingly) with this Live fiasco where a select few are almost willing to jump on EA's sword for them. But thanks, you actually posted my exact thoughts right there. I want the exact rundown of all this at some point, it will no doubt be captivating to hear what really, really happened at EA these past few yrs.

Personally, this isn't now, and never was a "2K Vs Live" thing for me. I'll buy every bball game that I have fun playing, and will support quality. Guys get caught up in "Live was better this or that year" or "2K keeps using an old engine while Live is innovating" nonsense. We're all here because we're basketball nuts, the hardcore sim "crazies" as my gf's friends say.

Some of you Live (I guess I'll say EA diehards) get it mixed up like many are here to just bash Live or proclaim 2K king. We're here for the same reasons you are, it's just that we have different ways of reacting to what EA is doing, and apparently have a much higher *put on our blinders/take with grain of salt* threshold than you.

Again, Live 10 as a base, cleaned up, polished, fleshed out, more sig, etc, would have pleased most of us. And then 2 yrs later we'd be complaining about sneakers, tattoos, asking EA for throwbacks to have a deeper blue or green (btw have you seen the 2K forum, guys aren't exactly giving them any slack, 9 of 10 threads are complaints), NOT whether the game will launch or not.

[Boilerbuzz]

the only way wang was able to hang on to his IP stuff like that is if that was in his contract. remember EA begged the guy to come over. so that tells me its possible that he had that in his contract.

You're making **** up. Where did you hear they BEGGED? Come on. They throw a grip of money at you and that's about it.

[kingpnp3]

Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

You're making **** up. Where did you hear they BEGGED? Come on. They throw a grip of money at you and that's about it.

think about it boiler.

you are getting manhandled by your lowly competition. you are worth more then them. you pretty much made basketball games what they are today. you're the godfather of hoop games, as well as sport games in general. yet some smaller company which is getting larger and larger starts taking up huge chunks of your market share with their basketball game vs your hoop game. something aint right here. we have to make a change. you try it once. doesnt work. the competition now has a 50 yard lead on you. you try something else. the comp now has a 100 yard lead on you. its getting pathetic at this point. so what do you do. "If you cant beat em.....join em"

well EA did just that by getting wang. i'm not saying i know for 100% fact thats what happened as far as his contract is concerned. i'm just speculating like everyone else on here. what i am saying is this. if this is the real reason they couldnt touch that mike wang engine. then you have to ask Why? and what other legal reason could that be unless its written in the contract with WANG? and why would you give wang something that BIG, something that no developer ever gets? You would only do that under special circumstances. go back up and read what i just typed. is that not special circumstances? the moment you said forget it, we're going to JOIN EM and get the rival guy. it told me EA will do anything to get back on top. ANYTHING. that means possibly giving a guy a crazy contract where he can have the rights to his engine. or atleast you cant soley have them as the company he created it with(like normal).

its a possibility.

[23]

Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

think about it boiler.

you are getting manhandled by your lowly competition. you are worth more then them. you pretty much made basketball games what they are today. you're the godfather of hoop games, as well as sport games in general. yet some smaller company which is getting larger and larger starts taking up huge chunks of your market share with their basketball game vs your hoop game. something aint right here. we have to make a change. you try it once. doesnt work. the competition now has a 50 yard lead on you. you try something else. the comp now has a 100 yard lead on you. its getting pathetic at this point. so what do you do. "If you cant beat em.....join em"

well EA did just that by getting wang. i'm not saying i know for 100% fact thats what happened as far as his contract is concerned. i'm just speculating like everyone else on here. what i am saying is this. if this is the real reason they couldnt touch that mike wang engine. then you have to ask Why? and what other legal reason could that be unless its written in the contract with WANG? and why would you give wang something that BIG, something that no developer ever gets? You would only do that under special circumstances. go back up and read what i just typed. is that not special circumstances? the moment you said forget it, we're going to JOIN EM and get the rival guy. it told me EA will do anything to get back on top. ANYTHING. that means possibly giving a guy a crazy contract where he can have the rights to his engine. or atleast you cant soley have them as the company he created it with(like normal).

its a possibility.

Believe it or not

Not everyone posting here are speculating

[kingpnp3]

Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

Believe it or not

Not everyone posting here are speculating

believe or not, everyone here is speculating. they dont work for EA. they dont work for 2k. so its speculation galore.

unless someone has the access to wang's contract. its pure speculation.

[barimanlhs]

Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

believe or not, everyone here is speculating. they dont work for EA. they dont work for 2k. so its speculation galore.

unless someone has the access to wang's contract. its pure speculation.

Not technically true, and you could always ask Mike Wang here (beluba is his screen name) I dont know if he would answer though

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

Not technically true, and you could always ask Mike Wang here (beluba is his screen name) I dont know if he would answer though

He steers clear of wild and crazy notions it would seem.

[barimanlhs]

Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

He steers clear of wild and crazy notions it would seem.

Haha very true, and I doubt he wants to even deal with anything Live related, at least until 2k13 is released. Either way it is probably good juju for him to steer clear of it.

[2kfanatic]

Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

the only way wang was able to hang on to his IP stuff like that is if that was in his contract. remember EA begged the guy to come over. so that tells me its possible that he had that in his contract.

And you got this from (begging part)?

Oh MIKE! Join us and you will have some patent with what ever contribution you will give to our engine!! Makes sense /sarcasm

Seriously though EA is not stupid to include that in their contract without some sort of enployment bond at the very least. Wake up man.