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There are really only 5 players you can argue for GOAT...

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  • Cebby
    Banned
    • Apr 2005
    • 22327

    #31
    Re: There are really only 5 players you can argue for GOAT...

    Originally posted by MJ2320
    He won with a surrounding cast that consisted of players like Stacey King, Brad Sellers, Dickie Simpkins, etc..
    Just get that nonsense out of here.

    Jordan's 7-13th men weren't very good? That's a huge surprise.

    Jordan had a very, very good supporting cast.

    I guess if theres someone Id drop from the list, it would be Kareem.
    Kareem was a 6 time MVP, 2 time Finals MVP, 6 time champ, 4 time runner up, and 10 time first team All NBA. I'm not sure he is a guy to be dropped from any list.

    Comment

    • KG
      Welcome Back
      • Sep 2005
      • 17583

      #32
      Re: There are really only 5 players you can argue for GOAT...

      Originally posted by Cebby

      Kareem was a 6 time MVP, 2 time Finals MVP, 6 time champ, 4 time runner up, and 10 time first team All NBA. I'm not sure he is a guy to be dropped from any list.
      I think people overlook Kareem because they saw his signature shot as a gimmick and he came after Wilt & Russell. He had 3yrs where he avg'd 30 & 16. They didn't even record blocks until his 5th or 6th year. He has the stats, durability, accomplishments, awards, and dominating performances when it matters to be in the Top 5 of all-time. I can only remember him when he was he on his last legs but I still was amazed by that sky hook.

      Stuff like this doesn't help though.

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      Comment

      • Gibbz
        All Star
        • Aug 2005
        • 8240

        #33
        Re: There are really only 5 players you can argue for GOAT...

        Originally posted by Moses Shuttlesworth
        My opinion probably counts for nothing since I'm from Boston, but I would put Larry in there over Magic...easily.
        Easily?

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        • yvesdereuter
          Banned
          • Jun 2007
          • 1688

          #34
          Re: There are really only 5 players you can argue for GOAT...

          Originally posted by Cebby
          Just get that nonsense out of here.

          Jordan's 7-13th men weren't very good? That's a huge surprise.

          Jordan had a very, very good supporting cast.



          Kareem was a 6 time MVP, 2 time Finals MVP, 6 time champ, 4 time runner up, and 10 time first team All NBA. I'm not sure he is a guy to be dropped from any list.
          Im not saying Kareem wasnt a great player but every time he won a championship, his team had either Magic or Oscar and one of those times Magic played his position while Kareem was injured during the clinching game.

          If youre going to base it on stats, Wilt has the upper hand (yes I know Kareem is the all time leader in scoring but he also stuck around way too long because of financial problems). If you go by winning, Russell has the upper hand. And when Wilt and Russell played they had to go through each other. There were no other top 5 guys during the 70s that Kareem had to butt heads against and, yet, his teams still failed to win--until Magic. And that was even with the NBA watered down due to talent being in the ABA.

          You can make a case for Kareem but you can also just as easily make a case for him not being on this list.

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          • The C
            Banned
            • Apr 2005
            • 7538

            #35
            Re: There are really only 5 players you can argue for GOAT...

            Kareem played Roger Murdock in Airplane! He wins

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            • Dice
              Sitting by the door
              • Jul 2002
              • 6627

              #36
              Re: There are really only 5 players you can argue for GOAT...

              Originally posted by yvesdereuter

              You can make a case for Kareem but you can also just as easily make a case for him not being on this list.
              I just can't see how you can make a case for him not being on the list when he's the all-time leading scorer.
              I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm X

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              • yvesdereuter
                Banned
                • Jun 2007
                • 1688

                #37
                Re: There are really only 5 players you can argue for GOAT...

                Originally posted by Dice
                I just can't see how you can make a case for him not being on the list when he's the all-time leading scorer.
                As I said before, Kareem had financial problems and so that is probably why he stuck around so long. Check out his rebounding. For the last 8 years of his career he averaged less than 10 rebs a game..and he was a center. Wilt has the stronger statistical argument and Russell has the stronger argument where it comes to winning. Is he really better than was Larry Bird? Im not so sure.

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                • Jeffx
                  MVP
                  • Jan 2007
                  • 3045

                  #38
                  Re: There are really only 5 players you can argue for GOAT...

                  Originally posted by Stumbleweed
                  Yeah I was gonna say, replace Magic with Oscar and there's a list that is pretty damn solid. Oscar is the GOAT PG despite his stats being inflated due to the crazy pace back then.
                  PREACH!!!!!!

                  Comment

                  • LingeringRegime
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Jun 2007
                    • 17089

                    #39
                    Re: There are really only 5 players you can argue for GOAT...

                    Originally posted by MJ2320
                    Michael Jordan is the G.O.A.T. because he played both ends of the floor consistently. He won with a surrounding cast that consisted of players like Stacey King, Brad Sellers, Dickie Simpkins, etc. He played in an era of where there was no hand check rule. If teams couldn't stop Jordan they would literally beat the hell out of the man. Just take a look at the Detroit Pistons of that time who invented the "Jordan Rules". That meant when in doubt knock MJ out! Even the New York Knicks of the nineties acquired that particular style of play to try and stop Jordan. If you tried doing that to any of these stars today you'll probably get suspended a whole season or worse kicked out of the league! Jordan is the best hands down! He and his team are undefeated in the NBA Finals. More than I can say for the rest of the so called candidates.
                    Exactly my views as well.

                    I found this related video about the subject. Nice stats although it's pretty brief.
                    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RXcLxbTg9kc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RXcLxbTg9kc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
                    Last edited by LingeringRegime; 06-16-2009, 11:24 PM.

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                    • MJ2320
                      Banned
                      • May 2009
                      • 157

                      #40
                      Re: There are really only 5 players you can argue for GOAT...

                      Originally posted by DEFTFUNDAMENTALZ
                      Exactly my views as well.

                      Here is a related video about the subject. Nice stats although brief.
                      <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RXcLxbTg9kc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RXcLxbTg9kc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
                      Enough said! Thanks bra!

                      Comment

                      • marq
                        Pro
                        • Jul 2003
                        • 549

                        #41
                        Re: There are really only 5 players you can argue for GOAT...

                        Tight youtube video. Makes you wonder what else Magic could've accomplished had he not had to retire at 31 the first time...

                        Comment

                        • SportsTop
                          The Few. The Proud.
                          • Jul 2003
                          • 6716

                          #42
                          Re: There are really only 5 players you can argue for GOAT...

                          Originally posted by slick1186
                          Easily Jordan is the G.O.A.T. just because of they fact that he kept rings off so many greats fingers. Here is a list just off the top of my head Barkley, Stockton, Malone, Reggie Miller, Patrick Ewing, Drexler( didn't get one until Joradn retired and he went to Houston). He won 10 scoring titles. Was All NBA Defense First Team 9 times.

                          The Pistons developed the "Jordan Rules" just to beat him. Do you know how great you have to be for teams to develop rules to try and beat you? The only other player i could think of is Shaq with the "Hack A Shaq"

                          Last but not least every player is compared to Jordan to find out how good they are. The guys that were and are compared to Jordan include Kobe, Lebron, Grant Hill, Harold Miner, Penny Hardaway, Jerry Stackhouse and Vince Carter.

                          Jordan is the G.O.A.T. plain and simple.
                          That's nice and all, but do you know how great you have to be for the league to change rules because of your dominance a la Wilt Chamberlain?

                          Not saying he's the greatest, just pointing out that other players were more dominant than Jordan.
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                          • yvesdereuter
                            Banned
                            • Jun 2007
                            • 1688

                            #43
                            Re: There are really only 5 players you can argue for GOAT...

                            Originally posted by Squint
                            That's nice and all, but do you know how great you have to be for the league to change rules because of your dominance a la Wilt Chamberlain?

                            Not saying he's the greatest, just pointing out that other players were more dominant than Jordan.
                            Thats not true at all. Every time you bring up Wilt, theres someone who will throw Bill Russell out there. No such peer exists for Jordan...and its not like Jordan didnt play during an era of great players either. With Jordan you had statistical superiority, winning, and some of the most clutch moments the sport has ever seen. That didnt exist with Wilt. He had stats because of physical advantages for that time but if he was as dominant, he'd have more hardware.

                            Jordan was so dominant that opposing players would avoid making eye contact out of fear he would perceive it as some slight or challenge.

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                            • reppinbtb
                              Rookie
                              • Jun 2009
                              • 17

                              #44
                              Re: There are really only 5 players you can argue for GOAT...

                              anybody who thinks kobe is better than MJ is an idiot

                              Comment

                              • SportsTop
                                The Few. The Proud.
                                • Jul 2003
                                • 6716

                                #45
                                Re: There are really only 5 players you can argue for GOAT...

                                Originally posted by reppinbtb
                                anybody who thinks kobe is better than MJ is an idiot
                                Nice post.

                                Well thought out and you articulated your point clearly

                                That was sarcasm in case there was any question.
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