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Originally posted by xbox.sk88z
wrote:
I'm not sure why there is so much contempt and an 'us' versus 'them' mentality. I believe we all want the same thing here and that is the best game possible. However, it is important that we appreciate the fact that everyone is entitled to an opinion which I entirely agree with. The issue is going against others that may not agree with your opinion and preventing the community from growing by feeling the need to push out other opinions. This is not conducive to the growth of the community. As mentioned, I have always appreciated Poe's stance among the hardcore and agree that it is important for the game to be as realistic as possible. Though it's just as important to appreciate the casual gamer and sports gamer's point of view as well. Say what you wish about the decision, however, I hope that the community can at least try to see that I am not trying to battle anyone at all.
I'm not sure why there is so much contempt and an 'us' versus 'them' mentality. I believe we all want the same thing here and that is the best game possible. However, it is important that we appreciate the fact that everyone is entitled to an opinion which I entirely agree with. The issue is going against others that may not agree with your opinion and preventing the community from growing by feeling the need to push out other opinions. This is not conducive to the growth of the community. As mentioned, I have always appreciated Poe's stance among the hardcore and agree that it is important for the game to be as realistic as possible. Though it's just as important to appreciate the casual gamer and sports gamer's point of view as well. Say what you wish about the decision, however, I hope that the community can at least try to see that I am not trying to battle anyone at all.
Originally posted by FurryHippie
Pardon me if this is longwinded and redundant, but I think I should get this off my chest. After reading the quote above, this is what came to my head.
Sk88z, the thing is...we were duped. I know you'll disagree, but there's a reason we all are backing POE on this. You do realize a majority of this community thinks you were wrong. Here's why:
When the game was coming out, and the developers were actually showing up here, there was a huge buzz about the "realism" aspect. They made a big deal about the reach, about the ability to get inside, organic collision detection, the elimination of the parry (which is funny, cause the freeze counter with just up and down block made it EASIER to parry now). Basically, they made us THINK this was the game FOR the hardcore fans. But looking at your post, it's clear what the real intention was:
Give the hardcore fans some sim elements, promote the HELL out of this as "the most realistic representation of the sport", but also sneak in the perfect blocks, the counter window, the ridiculous low blows, the hyperpunching, the corner game, the sliding back step. This was so the "casual" gamers could find this game fun. Because let's get real - boxing in real life isn't always as fast and furious as boxing VIDEO games. So something has to be done to catch the eye of the GAMER. Real boxing is tactical, and it would take some tweaking of the current engine to achieve that (although I DO think it's a good start.)
But back to my point. Here's what EA should have done: Promote this game as "THE BOXING GAME FOR EVERYONE." Because that's what you're saying you wanted it to be, in your quote above. Poe got canned because he ONLY wanted the most realistic elements, and everything else be damned. You know why he was so vocal about it? Because that's what YOU promised us. YOU promised the most realistic game, and now you're saying "well, we need the casual fans to enjoy this game too." Well guess what? No you don't. You released Facebreaker for that reason....an arcade style, smash and bash game based on boxing. This was was supposed to be for US.
And who is US? We are the hardcores that were here before the game, during the release, and after the game was released. It's a year later and we're STILL here. Before Mike and Brizzo tucked their tail between their legs and ran outta here, they came on the site ALL THE TIME asking us advice on how to make the game more realistic. They released trailers about the realism in this game. Man, if I had a dollar for every time I heard "realism" in their promotion of this game, I'd be rich.
Bottom line - you say Poe got the axe because he wasn't respecting the opinion of those who either
A) didn't support his views (which, in a nutshell, were simply "MAKE THE BEST SIMULATION POSSIBLE") or
B) Wanted features in the game that took away from the hypothetical "realism" that we were PROMISED and that he FOUGHT for.
I guess what I'm trying to say, in a nutshell, is that you lured us all in with the "realism" carrot. You made us believe this game was for US, the sim players. We were the ones you were finally going to cater to. You heard us whine and cry about the parries and judge jabs and all that un-sim stuff in FN3 and promised that THIS one would be real. But you neglected to tell us THEN what you just told us YESTERDAY: In the end, you're not looking out for the sim fans with FN4. You don't believe there is enough money within our community, so you reached out to the guys who have no problem with a flashing counter window/spamming/whatever else. Poe called you guys out on it with his whole "A sim won't sell? PROVE IT" campaign. That scared you guys, because you don't think a sim could sell, and you don't want to release something for just us. The casual gamer pays your bills, not us. So he's gone. I guess I'll welcome Goliath and Big E back for FN5.
The reason there is such a backlash for such a seemingly small move is because it sends us the message that you are not serious about the things Poe (and this OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of the community) was serious about. How can you promise us a realistic boxing game, bait and switch us with a sim/arcade hybrid so as to appease the NON-realistic fans for more money, and then fire the community leader who simply held you to the promise you initially made to us during the development period? If anything, the guys at EA should be relieved of their position for not being honest to the customer. In this "us vs. them" world you reference, we're on the side of the guy who never duped us. We recognize real and that was Poe.
AND A FINAL POINT: As you may have noticed, I play Fight Night 4 more than most, and I enjoy it because I've accepted what it is. I have purchased every Fight Night game, without renting, on day 1. And while I have enjoyed them all, I always was hoping eventually it would be "done right" in the realistic sense. After this whole debacle, I will say that I am not purchasing Fight Night 5 on day 1. I will try it out first. So if you're wondering how this whole thing is going to affect sales...I can't speak for everybody, but as far as my wallet goes, you've lost what used to be guaranteed money. It's up to EA to prove to us that they're really serious about making FN5 the SIM game we were led to believe FN4 was going to be.
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