Please bring back the UFC 1 referee stoppage when you hold block 2 long on the ground

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  • Malaach
    Pro
    • Aug 2017
    • 503

    #31
    Re: Please bring back the UFC 1 referee stoppage when you hold block 2 long on the gr

    EA UFC 2 Back Mount Flat TKO

    Spoiler


    EA UFC 2 Side Saddle Finish.

    Spoiler


    EA UFC 1 had both ground ko's & TKO's this is the same back mount position in the OP's Gif

    Spoiler

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    • Kamel
      Just started!
      • Dec 2017
      • 3

      #32
      Re: Please bring back the UFC 1 referee stoppage when you hold block 2 long on the gr

      It’s still in there ended my friend like that twice but from full mount

      Comment

      • RetractedMonkey
        MVP
        • Dec 2017
        • 1624

        #33
        Re: Please bring back the UFC 1 referee stoppage when you hold block 2 long on the gr

        Originally posted by Kamel
        It’s still in there ended my friend like that twice but from full mount
        You can't do what he's talking about from full mount. You can get them TKOed in a position with arms up unable to block, but it is impossible to get the ref to stop the fight if they just hold block.

        Comment

        • Phillyboi207
          Banned
          • Apr 2012
          • 3159

          #34
          Re: Please bring back the UFC 1 referee stoppage when you hold block 2 long on the gr

          Originally posted by Solid_Altair
          The GnP just needs to be severely re-tuned for UFC 3. UFC 2's scheme is much better than that UFC 1 crazy set up. I remember luring a guy to burn his stamina from FG. He was just gitting my block and my head was totally fine. Then the fight got stopped all of a sudden. It cracked me up.

          Having it so it looks like a TKO if the last strike lands through the block would be nice, though.
          That is exactly how it should be.

          Just sitting there blocking isnt intelligent defense and shouldnt be a viable strategy

          Comment

          • DaisukEasy
            Pro
            • Jul 2016
            • 577

            #35
            Re: Please bring back the UFC 1 referee stoppage when you hold block 2 long on the gr

            Originally posted by Phillyboi207
            That is exactly how it should be.

            Just sitting there blocking isnt intelligent defense and shouldnt be a viable strategy
            The problem is how transitioning, GA and interrupts work. If you add this type of TKO to a system that requires you to block punches in order to escape you can see how easily this becomes a "pick your poison" scenario. Either you try to transition prematurely and get KOd or you hold block and get TKOd.

            You cannot add this without overhauling grappling into a more fluid and dynamic system.

            That said, standing TKOs to stand-up would be awesome. It shouldn't be as simple as "you held block too long", you'd need a rule that differentiates between turteling up like Lawler against RDA and legit TKOs..
            Last edited by DaisukEasy; 01-02-2018, 01:46 AM.

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            • Malaach
              Pro
              • Aug 2017
              • 503

              #36
              Re: Please bring back the UFC 1 referee stoppage when you hold block 2 long on the gr

              In UFC Undisputed 2009 the only way you were able to get a ground TKO is if you rocked your opponent first on the ground and then your opponent just holds block.

              EA UFC 1 had ground TKO's but the problem was there was no ground game rocking.

              UFC Undisputed 2010 & UFC Undisputed 3 it was similar to Undisputed 2009, Except one new feature changed the possibilities of Ground TKO's which was the ability to rock your opponent on the ground into a finish the fight position.

              Those two approaches would be the best approaches for EA UFC if they wanted to go that route again for ground TKO's.


              I noticed in the EA UFC 3 beta that you can rock your opponent on the ground now. It just doesn't have the feel of being rocked because nothing different happens when you are rocked on the ground.

              But in order for something such as this to be more balanced other things would need to be added to the game as well.

              - Finish The Fight Overhaul
              - Ground Game activated Finish The Fight Positions.
              - Ground Sways w/o being rocked.
              - Ground Sways and blocking during finish the fight positions.
              - Arm trapping during finish the fight.
              - Transitions to another finish the fight position.
              - Just Blocking during finish the fight can result in a TKO.
              - Grapple Holding from half guard, and guard positions defend against top opponents posture just as we can from mount bottom.
              - Get rid of the fill the meter mini game mechanic for finish the fight.(Give us blocking, swaying, arm trapping as a means to give us full control of defense)
              - Reanimate the finish the fight positions, and give the ground game finish the fight positions their own unique animations separate from finish the fight that occurs from a stand up knockdown.

              -As for Standing TKO's it would need something similar to the doctor stoppages in FNC. It can be done.

              Realistically it would be alot of work on the ground game to get this aspect right.

              Comment

              • Phillyboi207
                Banned
                • Apr 2012
                • 3159

                #37
                Re: Please bring back the UFC 1 referee stoppage when you hold block 2 long on the gr

                Originally posted by DaisukEasy
                The problem is how transitioning, GA and interrupts work. If you add this type of TKO to a system that requires you to block punches in order to escape you can see how easily this becomes a "pick your poison" scenario. Either you try to transition prematurely and get KOd or you hold block and get TKOd.

                You cannot add this without overhauling grappling into a more fluid and dynamic system.

                That said, standing TKOs to stand-up would be awesome. It shouldn't be as simple as "you held block too long", you'd need a rule that differentiates between turteling up like Lawler against RDA and legit TKOs..

                Lwler didnt turtle tho he was moving and deflecting shots. That’s intelligent defense. You should only need a couple of blocked strike in order to transition.

                It should happen if you block like 7 hard strikes in a row

                Comment

                • DaisukEasy
                  Pro
                  • Jul 2016
                  • 577

                  #38
                  Re: Please bring back the UFC 1 referee stoppage when you hold block 2 long on the gr

                  Originally posted by Phillyboi207
                  Lwler didnt turtle tho he was moving and deflecting shots. That’s intelligent defense. You should only need a couple of blocked strike in order to transition.
                  He definitely turtled. Just intelligently. Which is why I said that if there's going to be standing TKOs make sure the rule is nuanced enough to differentiate between successfully defending like Lawler and what happened to Ortiz, Barao, etc.

                  Just because you're blocking doesn't mean you're getting TKOd.And just because you're also swinging doesn't mean you're not getting TKOd.

                  It should happen if you block like 7 hard strikes in a row
                  What if I want to stall? If I'm comfortable not transitioning because I believe I can't get KOd in this position. I can block all of the incoming shots successfully and don't want to risk having my transition denied and actually be in trouble, so I do a calculated turtle. Why should that result in a TKO?

                  Comment

                  • Phillyboi207
                    Banned
                    • Apr 2012
                    • 3159

                    #39
                    Re: Please bring back the UFC 1 referee stoppage when you hold block 2 long on the gr

                    Originally posted by DaisukEasy
                    He definitely turtled. Just intelligently. Which is why I said that if there's going to be standing TKOs make sure the rule is nuanced enough to differentiate between successfully defending like Lawler and what happened to Ortiz, Barao, etc.

                    Just because you're blocking doesn't mean you're getting TKOd.And just because you're also swinging doesn't mean you're not getting TKOd.



                    What if I want to stall? If I'm comfortable not transitioning because I believe I can't get KOd in this position. I can block all of the incoming shots successfully and don't want to risk having my transition denied and actually be in trouble, so I do a calculated turtle. Why should that result in a TKO?
                    Turtling is just sitting there blocking. Lawler was moving and parrying shots. He wasnt turtling

                    And stalling isnt just blocking. You should have to grab your opponent to break down their posture. Laying there while a postured opp rains heavy strikes is not intelligent defense.

                    Comment

                    • RetractedMonkey
                      MVP
                      • Dec 2017
                      • 1624

                      #40
                      Re: Please bring back the UFC 1 referee stoppage when you hold block 2 long on the gr

                      Originally posted by Phillyboi207
                      Turtling is just sitting there blocking. Lawler was moving and parrying shots. He wasnt turtling

                      And stalling isnt just blocking. You should have to grab your opponent to break down their posture. Laying there while a postured opp rains heavy strikes is not intelligent defense.
                      You're arguing over semantics. Why are you trying to die on this hill? Lawler was actively parrying and blocking but not throwing back. That could be considered turtling. The point was he was intelligently defending himself and shouldn't have been finished via ref. Why are you picking the word to fight against? Pick his argument. This is frustrating to read.

                      Comment

                      • DaisukEasy
                        Pro
                        • Jul 2016
                        • 577

                        #41
                        Re: Please bring back the UFC 1 referee stoppage when you hold block 2 long on the gr

                        Originally posted by Phillyboi207
                        Turtling is just sitting there blocking. Lawler was moving and parrying shots. He wasnt turtling
                        Actually, it doesn't apply to standup at all. Real turtling is this.





                        But the way I used it is the fighting game definition:

                        Turtling is a gameplay strategy that emphasizes heavy defense, with little or no offense. Ostensibly, turtling minimizes risk to the turtling player while baiting opponents to take risks in trying to overcome the defenses.

                        This is exactly what Lawler did.

                        And stalling isnt just blocking. You should have to grab your opponent to break down their posture. Laying there while a postured opp rains heavy strikes is not intelligent defense.
                        All the tools one would use in a real fight are not available here and the strikes aren't all that heavy. Which is my whole point.
                        The ground game isn't nuanced enough to properly implement TKOs yet.

                        Comment

                        • Phillyboi207
                          Banned
                          • Apr 2012
                          • 3159

                          #42
                          Re: Please bring back the UFC 1 referee stoppage when you hold block 2 long on the gr

                          Originally posted by DaisukEasy
                          But the way I used it is the fighting game definition:
                          Turtling is a gameplay strategy that emphasizes heavy defense, with little or no offense. Ostensibly, turtling minimizes risk to the turtling player while baiting opponents to take risks in trying to overcome the defenses.

                          This is exactly what Lawler did.



                          All the tools one would use in a real fight are not available here and the strikes aren't all that heavy. Which is my whole point.
                          The ground game isn't nuanced enough to properly implement TKOs yet.
                          1) I think we fundamentally disagree on what Lawler did. I believe he was taking plenty of risks by swaying and parrying. One wrong move and he’s sleep. Sitting on the ground holding block involves no skill, no real thought.

                          2) You can break posture in the game. And the guy on top also has limited tools which is why the tko would be important. In real life I can stick shots around/through your guard. In the game you can lay there and block everything.

                          Comment

                          • Trillz
                            MVP
                            • Apr 2016
                            • 1369

                            #43
                            Re: Please bring back the UFC 1 referee stoppage when you hold block 2 long on the gr

                            Originally posted by Phillyboi207
                            1) I think we fundamentally disagree on what Lawler did. I believe he was taking plenty of risks by swaying and parrying. One wrong move and he’s sleep. Sitting on the ground holding block involves no skill, no real thought.

                            2) You can break posture in the game. And the guy on top also has limited tools which is why the tko would be important. In real life I can stick shots around/through your guard. In the game you can lay there and block everything.
                            Also rda wasnt swinging with everything.
                            Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/im2good4u1
                            PSN: Headshot_Soldier

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                            • RetractedMonkey
                              MVP
                              • Dec 2017
                              • 1624

                              #44
                              Re: Please bring back the UFC 1 referee stoppage when you hold block 2 long on the gr

                              Originally posted by Phillyboi207
                              1) I think we fundamentally disagree on what Lawler did. I believe he was taking plenty of risks by swaying and parrying. One wrong move and he’s sleep. Sitting on the ground holding block involves no skill, no real thought.



                              2) You can break posture in the game. And the guy on top also has limited tools which is why the tko would be important. In real life I can stick shots around/through your guard. In the game you can lay there and block everything.


                              The guard break mechanic would be perfect for TKOs. I’m honestly surprised they didn’t implement it on the ground. Throw a bunch of straights and then loop hooks around the guard. Elbows to smash through. That would be tight.

                              I find it funny that Daisuke doesn’t think there is enough for the ground game to allow TKOs while blocking (which the game has built around in a few positions) but thinks there is enough tells in stand up to take meters when the game wasn’t built around that.


                              Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

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                              • ab541
                                Banned
                                • Nov 2017
                                • 133

                                #45
                                Re: Please bring back the UFC 1 referee stoppage when you hold block 2 long on the gr

                                Originally posted by mannyonelover
                                the game lost an essential part of mma and dosnt capture the moment of a hard tough fight , ref stoppages or just getting between you and the opponent after a head kick ko is missing!
                                why was it taking out since the first game anyway??
                                I did not play the First EA UFC game but it seems extremely illogical that this has been removed, as it regresses the overall ground game in terms of options. The ref stopping the fight on the ground due to strikes that are not being properly defended is a real possibility in a MMA fight, a recent example being UFC 212 - Aldo Vs Holloway 1:

                                Spoiler


                                The video provided by Bigg Cee on page 1, also shows that the ref got much closer between the fighters to stop the fight. Being brutally honest the ref stoppage mechanic seems to have gone backwards and not forwards and this element should ideally be re-introduced then provided to us within a patch.

                                The new standup system looks really great, but there is still massive untapped opportunities to be added to the ground game and this cannot be neglected due to it being an integral part of MMA.

                                We need to continue to push for changes like this because i would assume ground work is a lot easier to animate and develop than the standup. Ultimately i personally think these are not unreasonable or unrealistic requests that we are all hoping to see, just core elements of MMA that really need to be added into the game.
                                Last edited by ab541; 01-02-2018, 03:59 PM.

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