Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

[aholbert32]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I disagree with your logic that once someone posts on a forum they can no longer be 'casual' fans.

'Casual' fans generally buy games based on word of mouth and good reviews.

When you fail to appease your core audience you tend to get negative press from the vocal minority, whom your 'casuals' pay attention to as word of mouth.

Look at what happened to SW Battlefront 2. They went full force targeting casuals, but failed to listen to their communities and the backlash went viral on Reddit and elsewhere.

Drove casuals away in droves. What's the morality of the story? Balance.

I am in the camp they should be rid of HUD in general and be like what was promised in FN3 so many years ago. That approach was abandoned for whatever reason.

I would think the technology is there for the cues now if they were attempting this 10 years ago.

But I don't care either way, the HUD is fine as long is as it's minimal. (The fade in mechanic is good, but should include the stamina bar too).

I would bet people in general would appreciate mini game/HUDless submissions. When striking feels like it has it's own unique outcomes, the subs are limited to predetermined cutscenes.

You can keep the same gate mechanic since starting from scratch is something reserved for future titles.
But limit the giant overlay which blocks the view of most of the action.

Allow us to pay attention to the techniques like in the stand up rather than a mini game which feels disjointed from the rest of the game. It is also a static system, not dynamic like the stand up.

Allow the progress of the gates be felt by visual cues (already present in the game), vibrations, etc.

Without the giant HUD/mini game to pay attention to, we can focus on the techniques and transitions themselves like in the stand up.

That way it'll feel more like TBS (transition based submissions) without completely revamping the subs system.

A change that can immensely improve the ground game merely by removing/minimizing the mini game/HUD. A way to make subs feel as dynamic and free form as striking, which is a part of the appeal and fun.

I said REGULARLY posts on forums. One of the definitions of "casual" is not regular or permanent.

Some casual fans buy games because of word of mouth however many (especially sports gamers) buy a game because they like a sport and want to play a game featuring that sport.

I have friends that regularly buy Madden who 1) dont post in forums 2) could give a **** about how sim/realistic the game is and 3) do not go to forums or reviews to determine if they are buying the new game. Its as simple as "I saw that the new Madden is out. I'm gonna cop that".

http://www.businessinsider.com/star-wars-battlefront-2-sales-november-2017-12

Doesnt look like casuals are going away in "droves" according to that games sales. Another case where outrage on the internet doesnt exactly match the sales reality.

Honestly, I dont care to get in the HUD or no Hud debate because thats besides the point. My point is with no Hud or a HUD, 99% of the people who post here will still buy the game. While there is a chance that some casual fans who dont give a **** about realism and expect to see their opponent's HUD may decide not to buy the game just for that reason.

[johnmangala]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I said REGULARLY posts on forums. One of the definitions of "casual" is not regular or permanent.

Some casual fans buy games because of word of mouth however many (especially sports gamers) buy a game because they like a sport and want to play a game featuring that sport.

I have friends that regularly buy Madden who 1) dont post in forums 2) could give a **** about how sim/realistic the game is and 3) do not go to forums or reviews to determine if they are buying the new game. Its as simple as "I saw that the new Madden is out. I'm gonna cop that".

http://www.businessinsider.com/star-wars-battlefront-2-sales-november-2017-12

Doesnt look like casuals are going away in "droves" according to that games sales. Another case where outrage on the internet doesnt exactly match the sales reality.

Honestly, I dont care to get in the HUD or no Hud debate because thats besides the point. My point is with no Hud or a HUD, 99% of the people who post here will still buy the game. While there is a chance that some casual fans who dont give a **** about realism and expect to see their opponent's HUD may decide not to buy the game just for that reason.

It definitely wasn't a prime COD level of sales it was hyped to be. The bad reviews definitely made a dent in sales.

You just made the argument 'casuals' may buy sports games regardless of bad reviews etc just to follow up on the sport. Doesn't that apply at least a little here?

If word of mouth etc doesn't matter as much as you suggest what is the harm in listening to your core audience more who actually gives active feedback?

So having no HUD may drive away sales for EAUFC3 but the bad press for EABF2 didn't drive away any sales?

[johnmangala]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

There is also a tendency here for people to harp on semantics, rather the actual crux of the argument.

[aholbert32]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

It definitely wasn't a prime COD level of sales it was hyped to be. The bad reviews definitely made a dent in sales.

You just made the argument 'casuals' may buy sports games regardless of bad reviews etc just to follow up on the sport. Doesn't that apply at least a little here?

If word of mouth etc doesn't matter as much as you suggest what is the harm in listening to your core audience more who actually gives active feedback?

So having no HUD may drive away sales for EAUFC3 but the bad press for EABF2 didn't drive away any sales?

Your argument is all over the place. You havent presented anything that supports that EA was expecting "prime COD sales". You said that casuals stayed away in "droves" but the sales dont support that. In fact, the only game to beat SWB2 in November was COD.

As I stated before you cant compare MMA to Football and Basketball just like you cant compare UFC sales to Madden or NBA 2k. The potential audience for Madden and NBA 2k is much bigger given that those sports are much more popular than MMA. So that means there are more potential casual fans who will consider buying the game. MMA is a niche sport so you have to work harder for a casual audience to buy the game.

I never said they shouldnt listen to their core audience. I said they shouldnt ONLY listen to their core audience. This game has to appeal to more than its core audience to be a success. UFC 2 was a sales success because it didnt JUST focus on the hardcore audience.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

There is no empirical evidence that casuals refrained from buying Star Wars “in droves”. I’m also dying at the thought of playing the submission minigame as it is on vibration alone.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

This is exactly what I really want. Something much closer to EA MMA.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I meant that very sarcastically. There's no way we could do it with the current system. I wouldn't mind overhauling it so there was no overlay in front of the action though.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I meant that very sarcastically. There's no way we could do it with the current system. I wouldn't mind overhauling it so there was no overlay in front of the action though.

Use it for chokes. Use transition based subs for joint locks

[johnmangala]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Your argument is all over the place. You havent presented anything that supports that EA was expecting "prime COD sales". You said that casuals stayed away in "droves" but the sales dont support that. In fact, the only game to beat SWB2 in November was COD.

As I stated before you cant compare MMA to Football and Basketball just like you cant compare UFC sales to Madden or NBA 2k. The potential audience for Madden and NBA 2k is much bigger given that those sports are much more popular than MMA. So that means there are more potential casual fans who will consider buying the game. MMA is a niche sport so you have to work harder for a casual audience to buy the game.

I never said they shouldnt listen to their core audience. I said they shouldnt ONLY listen to their core audience. This game has to appeal to more than its core audience to be a success. UFC 2 was a sales success because it didnt JUST focus on the hardcore audience.

and I never said EA was expecting prime COD sales..

I said it drove away casuals in droves. Which means a lot. And a lot of sales were lost to the bad press.

EABF2 was the successor to the original BF2 which is
practically a cult classic, the followup is poorly reviewed and it was targeted towards 'casuals'.

It's a star wars game in the season of the new movie release. It will obviously have decent sales regardless but it didn't do as it could have if it had good press... Which is the point here.

And I never said they should only listen to their core audience. I have been advocating balance this whole time. As of the last few games it's been skewed towards 'casuals'.

I'm just saying listen to your core audience more.

You tried capturing your 'casual' audience with an arcady approach in the first two games. It didn't work that well.

It's time to try a change.

[OneDrop]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Can we finally stop assuming what 'casuals' want? There's very little backup if any at all to the 'casuals' argument. For all we know there's thousands out there who'll like the fact the meters are gone because now they can fight other casuals and gas themselves and think the opponent won't notice it. Half the casuals won't probably even notice it or care about it. The whole 'casuals' argument is dead because it's not concrete, unlike the opinions here. Now if EA or someone else finds out what they ACTUALLY want, then you can argue for casuals. All I see is people pushing their own agenda motivated with the false 'casuals' argument.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

EA probably has a very good idea of they want, because they hold playtests. We are indeed likely ignorant about it.

[johnmangala]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

EA probably had a good idea that SWBF2 'casuals' would love that lootbox tied progression.

EA also thought 'casuals' would appreciate more arcady gameplay.

Both got bad reviews overall.

[aholbert32]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Can we finally stop assuming what 'casuals' want? There's very little backup if any at all to the 'casuals' argument. For all we know there's thousands out there who'll like the fact the meters are gone because now they can fight other casuals and gas themselves and think the opponent won't notice it. Half the casuals won't probably even notice it or care about it. The whole 'casuals' argument is dead because it's not concrete, unlike the opinions here. Now if EA or someone else finds out what they ACTUALLY want, then you can argue for casuals. All I see is people pushing their own agenda motivated with the false 'casuals' argument.

EA has evidence about what Casuals want. They do surveys, play tests and focus groups.

[aholbert32]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

EA probably had a good idea that SWBF2 'casuals' would love that lootbox tied progression.

EA also thought 'casuals' would appreciate more arcady gameplay.

Both got bad reviews overall.

EA UFC 2 sold over 2 million copies and is their 3rd highest selling sports game. Even with bad reviews its an absolute success.

[johnmangala]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

EA UFC 2 sold over 2 million copies and is their 3rd highest selling sports game. Even with bad reviews its an absolute success.

Because there are no more 'casuals' to bring in with good reviews?

I don't understand what's the resistance here.

Basically saying we don't care about what people think of the game as long as we get their money.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Because there are no more 'casuals' to bring in with good reviews?

I don't understand what's the resistance here.

Basically saying we don't care about what people think of the game as long as we get their money.

We gon pretend that’s not EA’s motto?