Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

[1212headkick]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

With all due respect, you use so much hyperbole and pump up your own abilities so much, I can't take your arguments seriously.

JABS ARE VERY EASY TO COUNTER. I know, because I throw a lot of jabs. Slip-straights SMASH people jabbing nonstop. Slips combined with counters to the body SMASH people using jabs. Raw elbows intercept jabs and out-trade them. So do raw uppercuts. So do overhands. So do straights.

The only way you're throwing 250 jabs a round and not getting absolutely smashed or gassed is versus a noob.

But I've noticed almost all your replies contain a laughable level of hyperbole and self-aggrandizement, so engaging with you is not really something I'm interested in.

Your making blanket statements. Your not really providing any counter arguments. Im providing hard facts. The jab is the best way to make you vulnerable. Come to xbox. Youll take it seriously then. Even if its 150 times youll not be able to throw when you want because ill have the frame advantage. Try this for yourself and see if im lying. Doesnt matter who you are. I didn't insult. Dont be a beta and use insults when your argument is destroyed

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Your making blanket statements. Your not really providing any counter arguments. Im providing hard facts. The jab is the best way to make you vulnerable. Come to xbox. Youll take it seriously then. Even if its 150 times youll not be able to throw when you want because ill have the frame advantage. Try this for yourself and see if im lying. Doesnt matter who you are. I didn't insult. Dont be a beta and use insults when your argument is destroyed

Isnt listing all of the strikes that counter a jab a way of "providing a counter argument"?

Isnt calling someone a "beta" an insult?

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

We’re on the same page for a lot of stuff but I just wanted to hear your opinion of my idea regarding allowing more bleed through(especally on heavy strikes) based on power+accuracy of attacker vs block rating of the defender. This way trying to turtle will lead to you taking considerable damage and you’d be encouraged to use head movement/lunges on defense. UFC4 stuff of course if parries are brought back.

Your point about defensive tools is true as well.

[1212headkick]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Isnt listing all of the strikes that counter a jab a way of "providing a counter argument"?

Isnt calling someone a "beta" an insult?

A) no because anyone whos good at pressure is expecting those. I count on people to slip straight. I want you to make yourself vulnerable

B) I didnt call him a beta. Said he was acting like one

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

A) no because anyone whos good at pressure is expecting those. I count on people to slip straight. I want you to make yourself vulnerable

B) I didnt call him a beta. Said he was acting like one

What was the need to do that though, also we all know how you know when someone is going to throw a hook or kick.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

A) no because anyone whos good at pressure is expecting those. I count on people to slip straight. I want you to make yourself vulnerable

B) I didnt call him a beta. Said he was acting like one

1) What about the 5 other counters he listed other than the slip straight? Isnt that providing a counter argument. Now, you may disagree with his counter arguments but you cant accuse him of not providing one.

2) The rule at OS has always been to attack the statement not the person. So I can say "I think the post you just made is moronic" and that isnt against the TOS. I'm not allowed to say that I think you are a moron or even you are acting like a moron. Just an FYI.

[ZombieRommel]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

We’re on the same page for a lot of stuff but I just wanted to hear your opinion of my idea regarding allowing more bleed through(especally on heavy strikes) based on power+accuracy of attacker vs block rating of the defender. This way trying to turtle will lead to you taking considerable damage and you’d be encouraged to use head movement/lunges on defense. UFC4 stuff of course if parries are brought back.

Your point about defensive tools is true as well.

I don't mind the idea and I think this might be the direction they're heading in already for UFC4. If you notice, in the last tuner update, the jumping switch kicks do more bleed on block now.

Ideally, I'd like to get rid of block breaking and just make blocking a little harder overall (front and side instead of high and low). The whole reason a block break mechanic must exist now is because it's too easy to just hide behind the high block.

Body shots were made pretty unsafe on block, so spamming them right now isn't as viable as in UFC2. Which means that a safer idea is usually to target the head, but that only goes so far if people can just hold R2 and be fine.

So for my money, I'd like blocking (and potentially parrying) to take enough skill and thought to where the block break mechanic becomes unnecessary.

The whole reason for the inflated strike output (or at least the MAIN reason) is because we have to bang on the block 3 times to get 1 strike through. Well either that or body hunt, which is both lame and not safe.

[bmlimo]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

I don't mind the idea and I think this might be the direction they're heading in already for UFC4. If you notice, in the last tuner update, the jumping switch kicks do more bleed on block now.

Ideally, I'd like to get rid of block breaking and just make blocking a little harder overall (front and side instead of high and low). The whole reason a block break mechanic must exist now is because it's too easy to just hide behind the high block.

Body shots were made pretty unsafe on block, so spamming them right now isn't as viable as in UFC2. Which means that a safer idea is usually to target the head, but that only goes so far if people can just hold R2 and be fine.

So for my money, I'd like blocking (and potentially parrying) to take enough skill and thought to where the block break mechanic becomes unnecessary.

The whole reason for the inflated strike output (or at least the MAIN reason) is because we have to bang on the block 3 times to get 1 strike through. Well either that or body hunt, which is both lame and not safe.

The block has this strength because u can throw to much strikes in a round and because combos are waaay faster than they should, put a proper speed in the game and weak the block would be my 2 cents, the game beeing more slower people would care about head move,met in the middle of a combo not in the end or in the beginning

[Haz____]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Big respect for ZombieRommel, buuut, it is actually really funny to me.....

The "turtle" meta he is describing, that would "break the game", to me at least, sounds like a waaaaaaaay better game than what we have currently, as well as a far more accurate and realistic representation of real, true to life, high level MMA.

A game where each strike is important, and matters. Where you have to pick and choose your strikes, be smart about your output, and be careful about risking opening yourself up. Where you have to use distance control, rhythm manipulation, feinting, pattern setting, footwork & footsies, etc, and use actual set ups to create openings for your strikes...

That game sounds amazing to me.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Ideally, I'd like to get rid of block breaking and just make blocking a little harder overall (front and side instead of high and low). The whole reason a block break mechanic must exist now is because it's too easy to just hide behind the high block.

How would you ensure that the game wouldn't become too focused on mixing up jab/cross and hooks? That has been a common complaint from people who complain about pressure.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

How would you ensure that the game wouldn't become too focused on mixing up jab/cross and hooks? That has been a common complaint from people who complain about pressure.

That's literally real life fighting. Mixing up strikes and combinations so they hit from different angles. I usually side with you on a lot of things, but I can't with that statement.

What you want is more responsiveness with regards to the defensive options available.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Big respect for ZombieRommel, buuut, it is actually really funny to me.....

The "turtle" meta he is describing, that would "break the game", to me at least, sounds like a waaaaaaaay better game than what we have currently, as well as a far more accurate and realistic representation of real, true to life, high level MMA.

A game where each strike is important, and matters. Where you have to pick and choose your strikes, be smart about your output, and be careful about risking opening yourself up. Where you have to use distance control, rhythm manipulation, feinting, pattern setting, footwork & footsies, etc, and use actual set ups to create openings for your strikes...

That game sounds amazing to me.

Pretty much all of that is already in game, except for where the lines blur with managing output, due to the whole thing with the stamina pool which is explained in the In-Depth Dive that Geoff Harrower posted that NOBODY seems to read, but meh.


Edit: We need a much more in DEPTH tutorial. You have given me an idea Haz.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

That's literally real life fighting. Mixing up strikes and combinations so they hit from different angles. I usually side with you on a lot of things, but I can't with that statement.

What you want is more responsiveness with regards to the defensive options available.

I definitely agree with your sentiment. Mix-ups and setting up strikes should definitely be an integral part of the game but at the same time I don't think it is healthy for the game if the the meta turns into aggressive 50-50 mixups, particularly at the bottom 80% of the playerbase. Obviously efficient/accurate offense should be rewarded.

[ZHunter1990]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

I had the chance to speak with Max Holloway for about an hour at the LEC event in Vegas about hi/lo vs front/side block and he largely seemed to favor the concept of front/side.

As a way to avoid crazy straight and looping punch combo variations you could implement blocking while using head movement with some punishes for blocking and swaying into a strike as well as other limitations.

These are things the GCers brought up during development of UFC3.

[ZombieRommel]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Yup, blocking + head movement would be a lot more balanced if you had to choose front vs side instead of just high vs low.

Front vs side would solve other issues on the defensive side, also. Like how people mix up body kick / head kick over and over now. What might be cool is if "side block" blocked both roundhouse body & head kicks, but the timing of the press affected bleedthrough on the head kick and whether or not the leg was caught for the body kick.

Martial has suggested a separate input for leg kick checks, which I am on board with.

But yeah, I think a LOT of issues people have with the game right now can be tied back to high/low blocking. People don't like the block break mechanic because it encourages jab spam and thus inflated strike counts. But if the high block couldn't be broken, it would be absurdly overpowered.

If blocking required more thought and shot selection mattered at all times, you could get rid of block-breaking altogether.

Then insert blocking + head movement to fill in the gaps we currently have and make whirlwind mixups less threatening.

I remember you mentioning that Holloway endorsed front / side. That's really cool. But I suppose ultimately it's the devs' call.