Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

[Haz____]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

I'll just say EA has done an incredible job alienating fans of existing franchises by trying to appeal to a mass audience. See; Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Deadspace, Star Wars Battlefront, etc.

Whatever reads they are getting off their data, they have historically had a track record of being off base.




Also just a note. This says nothing about the skill, dedication, and passion of the dev team. Only a criticism of the big wig decision makers heading EA.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

That's a flawed analogy as we dont know how much data EA have so we don't know how big the countries would be. With the size of the community and active online player base we can assume that what we have access to is <10% of the online player base.

I dont see how its flawed when they have data on EVERY person who has played the game. If you have ever logged in and played the game (whether its online or offline), EA has data on the way each gamertag played and what modes they played. Its how they know that a significantly bigger portion of the community plays offline modes than plays online.

That information isnt the end all and be all and I feel the specific comments from the hardcore community should be held in higher consideration but to say we dont have an idea how much data EA has is false.

The reality is they have more info than you do. So its strange that you admittedly say you have less than 10% of the info (all of it doesnt even support the argument that people want a realistic sim) and use that small amount to doubt the rest of the data.

You have to admit that only the hardest of the hardcore constantly post about a video game, right?

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

I'll just say EA has done an incredible job alienating fans of existing franchises by trying to apeal to a mass audience. See; Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Deadspace, Star Wars Battlefront, etc.

Whatever reads they are getting off their data, they have historically had a track record of being off base.




Also just a note. This says nothing about the skill, dedication, and passion of the dev team. Only a criticism of the big wig decision makers heading EA.

This is correct but there is a difference. I cant speak to Dragon Age or Deadspace but if I recall the majority of issues that people had with SWB was an attempt by EA to generate more revenue (which is in line with what EA does). Mass Effect Andromeda was more of an issue with poor development not changes to the game meant to focus on a certain part of the community, right?

We are the customers and I get that we are going to demand what we want no matter the consequence but this always confuses me a little. Like I work in the television business and when we are developing a show, we have the some of the same info as EA (focus groups, data on what the demo watches, surveys). So we take that into consideration when creating a show.

If we dont and the show flops....we get fired. Because the corporation pays for this data for a reason. To determine the best way to sell this show to the audience. Ignoring that data is problematic because its the best way to determine if a show will be successful and ignoring it and getting it wrong can lead to people losing their jobs.

So I'm never surprised or upset when a game company goes in a direction that it thinks will lead to the most sales because thats what corporations do. What I do is I speak with my wallet. When EA and 2k removed features I liked from Madden and NBA 2k, I didnt buy those games until they added them back. When Live went towards an arcadey path. I stopped buying the game.

That why I asked 1212 why should EA cater to him when the data says more sales will come from catering the game to others and he has openly admitted that even if they go down that path...he will still buy the game? His response was they shouldnt take advantage of the hardcore which is hard to understand given that he (and others) are asking a corporation to do that.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

I dont see how its flawed when they have data on EVERY person who has played the game. If you have ever logged in and played the game (whether its online or offline), EA has data on the way each gamertag played and what modes they played. Its how they know that a significantly bigger portion of the community plays offline modes than plays online.

That information isnt the end all and be all and I feel the specific comments from the hardcore community should be held in higher consideration but to say we dont have an idea how much data EA has is false.

The reality is they have more info than you do. So its strange that you admittedly say you have less than 10% of the info (all of it doesnt even support the argument that people want a realistic sim) and use that small amount to doubt the rest of the data.

You have to admit that only the hardest of the hardcore constantly post about a video game, right?

1. So the data is what we play? I'm assuming there is more than just that as that's not a method of feedback thats a method of knowing what we engage with.

2. I agree with you here. Actual feedback is what is important.

3. I doubt the rest of the data as its the only data we have access to, let's say you can see 16 glasses on a bar and they are only filled with Coke. A member of staff says that there is another 84 glasses of Lemondade in the back but you aren't allowed to see it, can't see it or anything with it, all you know is it might exist and it might be the opposite of what you can see. Would you take it as face value from a person of authority or would you question it as it's not what

Last part I disagree that only hard core fans post if that's what you meant. Most fans nowadays post or look for feedback. If you mean post constantly then sure I agree.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

1. So the data is what we play? I'm assuming there is more than just that as that's not a method of feedback thats a method of knowing what we engage with.

2. I agree with you here. Actual feedback is what is important.

3. I doubt the rest of the data as its the only data we have access to, let's say you can see 16 glasses on a bar and they are only filled with Coke. A member of staff says that there is another 84 glasses of Lemondade in the back but you aren't allowed to see it, can't see it or anything with it, all you know is it might exist and it might be the opposite of what you can see. Would you take it as face value from a person of authority or would you question it as it's not what

Last part I disagree that only hard core fans post if that's what you meant. Most fans nowadays post or look for feedback. If you mean post constantly then sure I agree.

The data shows what you play and how you play.

The analogy doesnt really work but lets work with it. So you only see Coke on the bar. You want Lemonade. You ask 10% of the people currently in the bar and they say "we want lemonade". The bartender says "We have lemonade in the back but the majority of our customers say they want Coke based on my experience and we are only allowed to serve one kind of drink. So thats why we only serve Coke."

Your response is "Well I've talked to 10% of the people here and they want Lemonade!"

I know its tough to take people at face value when your experience is different. When I'm faced with that I tend to ask "what reason would they have to lie?"

EA's motivation is money/revenue. Their goal is never to make the most realistic game. They goal is to make games that will result in the most people buying them. Period. So if someone at EA tells me "our data shows that people want this kind of game and we are creating that game so that we can appeal to the most potential buyers"....I tend to believe them because that falls in line with what the company they work for wants.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

The data shows what you play and how you play.

The analogy doesnt really work but lets work with it. So you only see Coke on the bar. You want Lemonade. You ask 10% of the people currently in the bar and they say "we want lemonade". The bartender says "We have lemonade in the back but the majority of our customers say they want Coke based on my experience and we are only allowed to serve one kind of drink. So thats why we only serve Coke."

Your response is "Well I've talked to 10% of the people here and they want Lemonade!"

I know its tough to take people at face value when your experience is different. When I'm faced with that I tend to ask "what reason would they have to lie?"

EA's motivation is money/revenue. Their goal is never to make the most realistic game. They goal is to make games that will result in the most people buying them. Period. So if someone at EA tells me "our data shows that people want this kind of game and we are creating that game so that we can appeal to the most potential buyers"....I tend to believe them because that falls in line with what the company they work for wants.

1. What and how doesnt mean anything, we play how the game dictates us to play, of course there is a differences in style but the majority play on the same fashion due to the game.

2. That analogy only works if you then say the bartender has data and it shows 90% of the bar wants coke so that's why we serve it. We can even add now that the data we have shows people will have coke so that's why you only sell it. That's quite the game even more as now it incompases how some of the data doesnt really match up with what people want.

What reason would they have to lie, you answer it in your very next line.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

1. What and how doesnt mean anything, we play how the game dictates us to play, of course there is a differences in style but the majority play on the same fashion due to the game.

2. That analogy only works if you then say the bartender has data and it shows 90% of the bar wants coke so that's why we serve it. We can even add now that the data we have shows people will have coke so that's why you only sell it. That's quite the game even more as now it incompases how some of the data doesnt really match up with what people want.

What reason would they have to lie, you answer it in your very next line.

You couldnt be more wrong about that and that is purely is a hardcore perspective. The game forces you to play a certain way to be successful at the highest level. The game meta doesnt force me to play a certain way to win offline. I've been successful in the lower levels online using a distance management style.

Now thats difficult in the higher levels and thats where the whole comp/sim debate really comes into play.

To the second point, I have no idea what you are trying to say. I'm telling you that EA claims to have data that shows that the majority of players who play the game prefer a faster paced, less sim version of the game. They have data that shows that majority of people play that way because they like playing that way (not because the game forces them too).

You are saying that simply because you have seen alot of posts on forums and social media saying that people want a sim/realistic game, you doubt EA's data. I'm telling you that EA takes the social media into account but has more data that counters those posts.

Your 3rd point doesnt make sense either. If EA's goal is to generate the most revenue....they will do what generates the most revenue. If they had data that showed that a sim/realistic game would sell the most....they would make the game a sim/realistic game. Their data says the opposite of that so thats the main reason why the game isnt hyper realistic.

[1212headkick]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

I guess but who assumes a corporation is going to look out for the best interest of its consumers?

Lets stop with the speculation and assumptions. Here are some facts:

1) Comp/ Top 100 players had a large amount of input on UFC 3. They influenced the gameplay more than any part of the community.

2) I've heard from devs and other employees that their data/telemetry says that casual fans typically play the game in a style that is closer to what comp players want.

Those are the facts. So there is a possibility that UFC 4 could be the same as 3 when it comes to priority and development. Now I havent seen or played a minute of the game so i have no idea about what UFC 4 gameplay looks like but its hard to ignore those facts.

So you can go on and on about how EVERYBODY or THE MAJORITY wants a realistic simulation (which is what all OSers want) but unless you can combat the direct data that EA has, you are fighting an uphill battle.

Did you not read what forbes wrote? They said it needs to be more realistic. And most "comp" players are there via an exploit. If you make it true to life you give it more balanced. Might as well give everyone zabit combos. And here we are again "but comp players" its also what reddit and most youtubers want.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Did you not read what forbes wrote? They said it needs to be more realistic. And most "comp" players are there via an exploit. If you make it true to life you give it more balanced. Might as well give everyone zabit combos. And here we are again "but comp players" its also what reddit and most youtubers want.

Forbes is a magazine article written by one man. If you want to look at that and ignore the data that EA says it has and has seen...have at it. Ignoring that doesnt help your argument at all but that doesnt seem to matter to you.

[1212headkick]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Forbes is a magazine article written by one man. If you want to look at that and ignore the data that EA says it has and has seen...have at it. Ignoring that doesnt help your argument at all but that doesnt seem to matter to you.

Oh do they not pay attention to metacritic? And how nearly all the user reviews are negative? Whats the source of their data?is reddit youtube os and ign ignored? im listening. Imo opinion you need to do the listening. You can have all the data you want and its still not precise. Who did they survey that said outside fighting should be underpowered?

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Oh do they not pay attention to metacritic? And how nearly all the user reviews are negative? Whats the source of their data?is reddit youtube os and ign ignored? im listening. Imo opinion you need to do the listening. You can have all the data you want and its still not precise. Who did they survey that said outside fighting should be underpowered?

You arent listening because if you were you wouldve seen where I listed all the places they pull information from.


I've stated it multiple times which again goes back to you refusing to read entire posts.

Serious question for you guys: Is the goal to get actual change or is it to just vent? If the goal for you to post here is just to vent your frustration about the game, thats fine. I wont respond anymore about this and I'll let you vent. Thats theraputic and I dont want to get in the way of that.

If the goal is to get tangible changes to the game, I've given you everything you need to do. I've informed you who the devs are relying on for input. I've told you what data they rely on for input. I've told you the best way to get a consensus so the devs listen to the changes you primarily want.

Now if you want to be stubborn and ignore those things, thats fine too but when the next game comes out dont start bitching about how EA doesnt listen to you. I told you how to get them to listen but you prefer to just post solely on OS. It really didnt work for you with UFC 3. I cant recall any changes that the devs made that werent OK with the comp crowd or sim ideas that were watered down for balance reasons. Thats what your current approach got you.

So if you want the same result....keep it up.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

You arent listening because if you were you wouldve seen where I listed all the places they pull information from.


I've stated it multiple times which again goes back to you refusing to read entire posts.

Serious question for you guys: Is the goal to get actual change or is it to just vent? If the goal for you to post here is just to vent your frustration about the game, thats fine. I wont respond anymore about this and I'll let you vent. Thats theraputic and I dont want to get in the way of that.

If the goal is to get tangible changes to the game, I've given you everything you need to do. I've informed you who the devs are relying on for input. I've told you what data they rely on for input. I've told you the best way to get a consensus so the devs listen to the changes you primarily want.

Now if you want to be stubborn and ignore those things, thats fine too but when the next game comes out dont start bitching about how EA doesnt listen to you. I told you how to get them to listen but you prefer to just post solely on OS. It really didnt work for you with UFC 3. I cant recall any changes that the devs made that werent OK with the comp crowd or sim ideas that were watered down for balance reasons. Thats what your current approach got you.

So if you want the same result....keep it up.

Where is the best place to give feedback other than here? Serious question.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Where is the best place to give feedback other than here? Serious question.

Depends on what your goal is:

- If your goal is to present an idea and show that the majority of the sim community agrees with that idea, OS is perfect for that.

- If your goal is to present an idea and see if the sim community has ways to improve that idea, OS is perfect for that.

- If your goal is to present an idea and show that this idea is what the majority of the entire community wants, you have to go to more places than just OS. You have to present that idea on Reddit. On places like the ESFL discord.

You then have to then argue your position when people on those sites disagree with you.

Feedback doesnt just work by just posting it here. Here is what happens when you present an idea on OS. One of the devs sees it. They go on other sites to see if there are similar threads talking about this issue and what those people wanted. They look at their social media and see if people have been tweeting them about this issue. They ask people internally what they think. They ask the GCs what they think (if the GCs havent already seen it and discussed it)

All of those things. So you can use OS for feedback but it doesnt mean the devs are just going to take the feedback from here and just run with it without factoring in how it would affect the entire community.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

How many players have competed in ESFL? Like 20-30?

Doesn't ESFL players represent like .1% of the playerbase?

Its in the hundreds. 30 alone fought in the last two cards.

I see what you are hinting at but its kinda missing the point. EA's data shows that most players want and tend to play a similar play style to comp players. So when it comes to input they have a bit of an advantage because their data shows they value things that are in line with the majority of people who play the game.

Now if you think that EA shouldnt listen to that small group of players over OSers, I'm OK with that argument. Its a hard argument given that the number of active OSers who talk about this game is less than the ESFL numbers but I wont begrudge you for making that argument.

The choice you and others have to make is what approach you want to take. At least when it came to UFC3, the devs listened to comp players more often. Thats the reality. So OSers can do the same thing for UFC 4 and hope for a different result. Or they can do what I suggest and try to come to a consensus.

This thread is an example of that. Zombie came here and listed 7 things that he thought were issues with movement, that he wanted those and then he would be cool with adding a sprint option. Some people addressed those 7 things and were interested in finding a middle ground. Others just yelled "SHOW ME A VIDEO OF RUNNING!!".

Which approach do you think is more likely to result in OS getting a sprint option for circling out?

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

So here’s a video of Romero vs Advaita

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/PuKSMs81ATY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Romero was able to constantly cut the cage instead of being forced to chase. He mirrored Advaita’s circling and was very patient while mixing up his attack patterns.

Also didnt see the glitch once. Not denying it being a problem but I’d imagine if anyone would know how to use it Advaita would. I dunno if it can be consistently replicated.

This was a high level fight between 2 possibly top 10 players in this game.