Transition based submissions

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

Are we really suggesting button mashing submissions now? Wtf


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Are you familiar with EA MMA’s joint lock system? It’s Not straight button mashing in the sense on frantic mashes. It requires a Rhythm of presses to manage stamina and squeeze.

I think it’s the best “end-stage” system. Well above a giant graphic of cat and mouse gate play that takes the focus away from the fighters entirely.

But I think can improve on it. Especially by adding transition stages in order to get to the rhythmic button mash.

It’s not perfect, for sure. But in comparison to an eye sore graphic overlay that takes over the screen, it’s head and shoulders better. We can’t even appreciate the subs because you don’t even see them being applied in ufc 3. You see the same gates over and over.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

might as well play heads or tails, button mashing submissions take no skill.

The transitions to get there certainly would take skill. And the rhythm mashing needed to apply and simulate squeeze.

All of the under the hood data would create different scenarios. If I get to the final stage and your gassed out, almost no mash should be needed to squeeze you out. The submission game is largely the transition stages I outlined. THATS the submission game. The transition battles to get to the squeeze stage

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Transition based submissions

might as well play heads or tails, button mashing submissions take no skill.

Why does a submission need to involve “skill”, as if making it more complex makes it better? The ease or difficulty should be based on the fighter you chose and situational (stamina, being rocked, etc), more so than your stick skills as far as subs go. I couldn’t care less about how complex a sub system is, why do people want an unrealistic sub system that takes none of the real life aspects of a sub into account like pressure and stamina DURING the sub?

This current system has to go, and like we said earlier, it’s not like just mashing the button as fast as you can benefits anyone in a button system. You have to know WHEN to go slow and when to go fast. What more skill do you want, there’s not reason to over complicate it. Then we’d just have a system only based on “skill” and the fighters ratings would be irrelevant.

As far as I’m concerned, the choke system in EA MMA was the best, then the button system comes next. But the button system might be better against lag, either way, this far better than this awful mini game we have now.

[MacGowan]

Re: Transition based submissions

Are we really suggesting button mashing submissions now? Wtf

They already have it in UFC3, you should try it. it's fun. especially with submission speed 10+

You know what's not fun? this

I've assembled furniture that came with easier instructions than this.

Look at the public trophies

Submissions are ultra rare. No one uses it.

There's a long road to a successful submission in UFC 3.

Initiate grappling --> Transition to a position suitable for submission --> Engage submission --> 5 step submission mini game

All I'm saying is swap that last part with a simple button masher. You still need the skill to grapple and to engage submission mode. Hell, you could link it to stamina to add some tactical value.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

As of right now, the sub mini game starts at stage 1 of every single submission. It doesn’t matter if you’re trying a basic armbar or RNC or going for a high difficulty sub like a Twister. It’s all the same. It takes not skill to work for it at all aside from timing it when the opponent is most vulnerable(low stamina vs your high).

The skill to sub right now comes purely in this mini game that completely separates from everything you were just doing in the fight. It has no real connection the fighters.

With a transition system, the “mini-game” IS the transitions to progress through multiple stages of the sub. It would take the same consistent skill we apply to grappling in the game, while allowing the more difficult submissions to actually be more difficult to achieve with more stages required to get to the “squeeze”/end-mash sequence.

I’m not sure why people prefer a standard gate system compared to this.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Transition based submissions

Exactly, people aren’t even really trying the subs and few are successful with them. The hand/eye coordination with this system is just too much for most and just not fun or immersive for others. Plus it’s not a battle of submission supremacy, it’s a battle against the clock lol. It shouldn’t feel like a race, a sub is about being patient and finding the right moment to go all in.

If stamina became more of a factor within the sub, and you could either sub someone in just a couple of seconds or fight it out for 30 seconds instead the allotted time these gates automatically time out or progress to the next stage, it would add a lot more excitement to subs. Me and my friends had the most intense and hilariously fun times subbing in EA MMA.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

Imagine someone foolishly going for a leg lock towards the end of the round. Leg locks require 2 hands to grab the leg, leaving you exposed to punches.

Right now, at the end of a round, the sub-gate mini game pops up and we can just sit there knowing the game can’t play out before the bell rings. No threat to me, but also no punishment to the attacker for trying that.

With a transition system, when they apply a stage 1 grip on my leg, I can actually punch them in the face to end the round. All the while, no giant graphic, I’m still fully immersed in the fight and all grappling/striking options remain.

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

^
I think to strike in or out of submission attempts
the button mashing should be restricted to there, while the transitions be on the RS like now. Then the stamina factor would even more sense.

This would allow us to strike out of submissions or strike into submissions unlike now where the overlay distracts from the fight.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

^
I think to strike in or out of submission attempts
the button mashing should be restricted to there, while the transitions be on the RS like now. Then the stamina factor would even more sense.

This would allow us to strike out of submissions or strike into submissions.

I feel like striking should be allowed up until the final button mash/squeeze stage.

If I’m going for an armbar, and I perform a minor transition to grab wrist control(stage 1), the defender should still be able to strike with the other arm that I’m not controlling. But if I get to stage 2 and swing my hips and start squeezing, now it’s about rhythmic defense/offense with the button mash.

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

I feel like striking should be allowed up until the final button mash/squeeze stage.

If I’m going for an armbar, and I perform a minor transition to grab wrist control(stage 1), the defender should still be able to strike with the other arm that I’m not controlling. But if I get to stage 2 and swing my hips and start squeezing, now it’s about rhythmic defense/offense with the button mash.

Good ideas. I think that would make sense for strikes within subs. Especially the rhythm and stamina management.

I think it can be a combination of these ideas suggested. Certain subs striking into or out of subs wouldn't be as effective so you'll have to rely on the transitions (holding or swooping RS) to fill or deplete (advance or escape) the grip meter.

Other positions striking can be more effective like from the 50/50 position you suggested earlier. So it depends on the sub like EA MMA which had maybe the best sub mini game yet.

[SHADOW_UFCMMA]

Re: Transition based submissions

Why does a submission need to involve “skill”, as if making it more complex makes it better? The ease or difficulty should be based on the fighter you chose and situational (stamina, being rocked, etc), more so than your stick skills as far as subs go. I couldn’t care less about how complex a sub system is, why do people want an unrealistic sub system that takes none of the real life aspects of a sub into account like pressure and stamina DURING the sub?

This current system has to go, and like we said earlier, it’s not like just mashing the button as fast as you can benefits anyone in a button system. You have to know WHEN to go slow and when to go fast. What more skill do you want, there’s not reason to over complicate it. Then we’d just have a system only based on “skill” and the fighters ratings would be irrelevant.

As far as I’m concerned, the choke system in EA MMA was the best, then the button system comes next. But the button system might be better against lag, either way, this far better than this awful mini game we have now.

interesting, I would be lying if i said i did not speed through your reply's on this thread to then reply to smoke. you actually have a really good point, i guess i just thought i did not want it to be to easy so my friends who are not on my level in ea ufc get a fluke submission off of me. But now i rechecked and it makes 100% sense for what you are saying.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

Have any Devs ever commented on the Transition Sub system idea?

I’ve seen the idea detailed going way back to EA UFC 1 forums. But I don’t recall any of the devs commenting on it when they have gotten involved in the chats.

Also, is this the main forum for EA UFC these days? I know the Official EA forum went downhill after some nonsense awhile back.

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

Have any Devs ever commented on the Transition Sub system idea?

I’ve seen the idea detailed going way back to EA UFC 1 forums. But I don’t recall any of the devs commenting on it when they have gotten involved in the chats.

Also, is this the main forum for EA UFC these days? I know the Official EA forum went downhill after some nonsense awhile back.

I dont know if they have addressed it but last time I brought it up few GCs said they have brought it up to the devs.

I think it's really important like you do. An immersive sub game has been lacking in all MMA games I know of. EA has an opportunity here to do something new and fun.

These are the official forums as far as I know but the devs are active on reddit and Twitter as well. Twitter is probably the best place to reach GPD.

[MacGowan]

Re: Transition based submissions

Have any Devs ever commented on the Transition Sub system idea?

I’ve seen the idea detailed going way back to EA UFC 1 forums. But I don’t recall any of the devs commenting on it when they have gotten involved in the chats.

Well, the addition of the alternative submission system for UFC 3 leads me to believe they've at least realised that the default sub system can be a bit polarising.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: Transition based submissions

interesting, I would be lying if i said i did not speed through your reply's on this thread to then reply to smoke. you actually have a really good point, i guess i just thought i did not want it to be to easy so my friends who are not on my level in ea ufc get a fluke submission off of me. But now i rechecked and it makes 100% sense for what you are saying.

Yeah man, I think it would be tragic if we went from one system so focused on hand/eye & coordination to another that was just based on who could button mashing the fastest lol. I may even casually call it “button mashing” myself but it’s definitely based more on timing and pace. It worked great in EA MMA imo and you could REALLY feel the difference when using submission artists like Souza and Shinya.

Their ratings system was JUST deep enough too. They had separate ratings for leg, arm and neck subs as well, which really helped make fighters feel unique. I’d usually make a wrestler with great neck subs but average limp subs. It wasn’t the best game but they did certain aspects of the sport very well.