Transition based submissions

[SMOKEZERO]

Re: Transition based submissions

Striking was the focus in UFC 3 but we still got new grappling mechanics, I expect no different. Subs and clinch both should receive a modest update. As for priority I think it goes clinch, sub, ground. I want it to go sub, clinch, ground. I dont expect them to go full TBS in UFC 4 based on ZHunters response but TBS like eventually. Based on that I suggested a TBS system that uses the current animations.

With our current side control, ground striking, arm trapping, denial system, lack of “wrestling”, there’s no way they prioritize subs over ground.


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[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

What was the new grappling mechanics? They slightly polished the old ones.

Driving TDs, new single collar animation, clinch punch stuns, low single, etc

[SMOKEZERO]

Re: Transition based submissions

Driving TDs, new single collar animation, clinch punch stuns, low single, etc

Those were all post content patches too.


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[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

With our current side control, ground striking, arm trapping, denial system, lack of “wrestling”, there’s no way they prioritize subs over ground.


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That's true, grappling in general needs attention. Fair enough its hard to argue to prioritize subs over ground when its laid out like that.

Here's something you have to consider tho submissions havent been really updated since UFC 1 besides visuals. Meanwhile ground was the focus of UFC 2. It's time for something for subs. RNC's and guillotine finish a good portion of fights.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

@DCowboys22 - Less than 5% of players hit a submission online. Do you really think EA is going full tilt submission overhaul next game? I’d guess there are many other aspects deserving of attention before a total submission rework is done based on analytics alone. I’m not saying it’s something that shouldn’t be addressed, just don’t put all your hopes in a deeper, more intricate, theoretical TBS system, that 95% of the player base will choose to avoid strictly off majority play style alone. - “Let’s bang. Let me up bruh.”


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Thats a fair point.

I think the question to ask is: Why aren't people going for submissions?

Definitely, part of that answer is the "Stand and Bang Bro's". But I think thats a smaller % that we think. I think a big reason is because its simply not fun to go submissions.

For 1, as someone else pointed out, its difficult for people to go through those gates and use the hand eye coordination to win the mini game. Good submission defenders are very hard to tap, even at stamina advantages.

The Mini-Game is not fighting. Its not immersive, and nobody really likes doing it.

I'd be curious to see what % of people attempted & finished subs in past games from THQ & EA MMA. I'd bet its a higher % if anyone ever collected the data.

I rarely go for Subs. And I'm here telling you right now, I'd go for them if they made it fun. And the bottom line, they are making an MMA game, not a boxing or kickboxing game, its the 4th Installment, if they still don't want to put any attention to a huge part of MMA, then that's an error in judgement.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

With our current side control, ground striking, arm trapping, denial system, lack of “wrestling”, there’s no way they prioritize subs over ground.


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I'm not a Developer or anything. But one of the benefits of a 2+ year cycle, is that they can make more impactful changes between installments.

I just wonder how much it would take to improve those grappling areas, while overhauling the Sub System. Especially if they simply integrate the sub system into the overall grappling meta.

And for the record, I'm not necessarily expecting an overhauled sub game for UFC 4, while it would be nice, I'm typing these ideas out as an ultimate goal. How quickly they get there is really up to EA and the Development team.

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

-A combination of pre-blocking transitions and reactionary transition blocks. A combination of Undisputed and EA

Blocking transitions would be immense. Right now the denials restrict the grappling to more of a start and stop feel. Blocking transitions via shortened recovery frames would give more of the simultaneous grappling feel the devs are going for.

You block a transition by holding the RS in the same direction as the opponent’s transition. You transition by holding the RS in a direction for around 2-3 seconds without being blocked. You can override blocking similar to block breakers in the standup by having muscle modifier for all transitions at the cost of stamina. With blocked transitions a TBS system would integrate more seamlessly as advancing, maintaining, or escaping positions would feel the same whether in the clinch, sub or ground.

[MacGowan]

Re: Transition based submissions

Driving TDs, new single collar animation, clinch punch stuns, low single, etc

Understood. I think we might have a different definition of "new mechanics". To me a single collar animations is not new mechanics. Clinch punch stuns might be closer to it, but even that is just polishing IMO. Low single is a new move to the same old mechanics.

Making the fighter able to strike whiles moving is a new mechanic.

I can def see UFC 4 grappling having more animations, new graphics for the movement and submission HUD. Polishing of attack/defence windows and gates, and a "easier to learn" control scheme, pluss some fancy new grappling moves. But I don't think we'll see actual new mechanics.

I think it'll be pretty much the same grappling evolution we saw from UFC 2 to UFC 3.

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

Understood. I think we might have a different definition of "new mechanics". To me a single collar animations is not new mechanics. Clinch punch stuns might be closer to it, but even that is just polishing IMO. Low single is a new move to the same old mechanics.

Making the fighter able to strike whiles moving is a new mechanic.

I can def see UFC 4 grappling having more animations, new graphics for the movement and submission HUD. Polishing of attack/defence windows and gates, and a "easier to learn" control scheme, pluss some fancy new grappling moves. But I don't think we'll see actual new mechanics.

I think it'll be pretty much the same grappling evolution we saw from UFC 2 to UFC 3.

I definitely think there'd be some new mechanics like clinch locomotion. Clinch punch stuns was definitely a new mechanic.

Whether it be mechanics, new animations I just want grappling and especially subs to receive an update.

[Jizamurai]

Re: Transition based submissions

Sounds good only if the grappling is like UD3. I don’t want the same grappling system we have now. It’s slow , super unrealistic and sluggish. Wrestling and jiu jistu isn’t like that in real life.

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

Sounds good only if the grappling is like UD3. I don’t want the same grappling system we have now. It’s slow , super unrealistic and sluggish. Wrestling and jiu jistu isn’t like that in real life.

I want it to be a mix of UD3 and EA UFC. At least for blocking transitions.

[VitoBurrito]

Re: Transition based submissions

Transition based submissions would be great if a different company made this game. It will be a glitch filled mess like always if ea was to add something like this

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

Transition based submissions would be great if a different company made this game. It will be a glitch filled mess like always if ea was to add something like this

Idk EA did well with the striking imo. If they applied the same effort with grappling it would be good.

My worry is they leave subs untouched or just another mini game.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

It’s the most natural progression of the sub system that I can think of. The original EA MMA system was the best sub system to-date.

But a properly implemented, well-thought out transition system, along with an in depth tutorial mode on how it works, will blow anything previously done out of the water.

Imagine not having a giant graphic pop up, imagine not having play a mini game that removes immersion, imagine being able to apply the same grappling skills you’ve used and worked on to apply chokes and limb submissions.

It’s the ultimate

[SMOKEZERO]

Re: Transition based submissions

It’s the most natural progression of the sub system that I can think of. The original EA MMA system was the best sub system to-date.

But a properly implemented, well-thought out transition system, along with an in depth tutorial mode on how it works, will blow anything previously done out of the water.

Imagine not having a giant graphic pop up, imagine not having play a mini game that removes immersion, imagine being able to apply the same grappling skills you’ve used and worked on to apply chokes and limb submissions.

It’s the ultimate

Sure, but would you really want to hold the stick in various directions 4 more times, just like position passing, to sink in a rnc? No matter how you feel about the submission mini game, that’s closer to the struggle of actually passing guard/half guard than the hold the stick in the direction system. I have zero confidence in a hudless system to deliver strategy or precision.


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