Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

[howboutdat]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

I voted yes, because both crowds want different experiences to be replicated by Madden. This is the best way to appease both crowds.

Yes i agree, and in all honesty, its in EA best interest to provide it.I mean you please both crowds, and probably would even draw back in alot of Sim minded people who have quit buying madden due to how it has leaned more to cater to the "other side" more in years past.

Win win for everyone .

[D81SKINS]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

The option of a "Sim" vs CPU mode would be awesome.
Also would be awesome to somehow get us, here at OS to test the CPU sim mode.
We have plenty of diehard sim players, like myself.

[D81SKINS]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

Recent tweets by Clint:

Yeah, there's two major crowds - Sim and Competitive - We've gotta find new ways to please both, that's for sure.

Same conversation from starting with a different poster and ending with Clint:

but for the same reason most esports have different rulesets, madden should too when it comes to gameplay imo. I would like to hear your guys opinion on that

Clint's response: we've stated numerous times we r interested in thatbut it's not an option for 17. Me personally? I'd rather replicate the NFL

A poster from OS on Twitter:

Can you share stuff atop that list?(asking about a future or next Madden)

Clint's response: sure - Top 2 would be a secondary support app/site and a 'simulation' unique mode or tuning setting

I'm just saying a lot of strong support from one of the developers with a sim/arcade type of mode.

Tell'em M17, out-of-the-box disc is a good starting point for a more sim experience.
A more improved tuning/slider system would be good!
What about USER and CPU Special teams and penalty sliders.

[mtmetcalfe]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

I think online play and offline play should be balanced separately. I think it would be a great change for both crowds. As a sim offline player I hate when things get changed because it was an issue in online play but it worked fine in offline. And I'm sure the reverse has happened to the online players. Separate balancing seems like the most practical solution to a very annoying problem that's been going on for a long time. I really hope they get it in next year's game! Might be the only way to please both crowds.

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My only question in regards to this is what about mixed leagues? I find that a full user league is to hard to manage. Our league did an almost half user half cpu league.

[ehh]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

As Underdog said, there's no reason for anyone to say no to this lol. Everyone gets what they want. EA has long been behind the times in terms of innovation, they have to catch up in the "customization of experience" area. Of course the key is what the big wigs want and will force the devs to focus on.

Follow what 2K has done (and The Show, from what I've read. Not a PS4 owner). Online should be a completely different experience from offline and there should be a sim/casual option. We've had the "even teams" option for who knows how long, I can't imagine it'll be difficult to implement a "casual vs sim" or "online vs offline" toggle. Hell, with "even teams" you already have your casual/online settings for the most part. Really what this boils down to is that we need sliders that 1) work 2) work as intended/labeled.

I don't know if we'll ever get it since it seems like it will require a rebuild of the sliders and the consensus is that there are "hidden" sliders and legacy issues - we all know that certain sliders don't impact what they're labeled as (see the big QBA controversy going on right now). We need to QBA to effect the amount of inaccurate throws from the QB and that's it, it needs to globally lower accuracy ratings. It can't secretly impact the CPU's playcalling, the QB's aggressiveness or the CPU WR's ability to get open.

So really, in short we do not need two separate settings. Sure, that will be nice and will be icing on the cake, two different preset/defaults. We need sliders that work properly though. Without properly working sliders I don't think the concept of two different game "types" is possible.

This was close to a non-issue out of the box. Sliders worked pretty well and I was having a blast. I played more seasons in franchise August through mid October than I have in the last dozen years combined. Then Patch 2 came...

[JohnDoe8865]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

100% yes and I'll give EA Sports another piece of information, however meaningless it may be - If the esports or "online" crowd is gonna complain about needing total and direct user input controlling every outcome no matter the skill of the player they may be controlling with no dice rolls and complete "stick skills" determining the outcome of every play (i.e. no random WR drops, no QB over/under throws, nerf fumbles, make FG kicking easier) that's their discretion .

But unless the previously stated goal of a simulation football remains the target and the goal year over year, and we keep seeing patches/tuners that change the game and push it away from that goal (QB acc, fumble nerfs, FG meter) then I can promise that they will lose one sale in myself and will also lose a few others as I tell my friends and family who also work and have limited time and play Franchise mode that they need not bother with the newest Madden going forward.

[fistofrage]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

100% yes and I'll give EA Sports another piece of information, however meaningless it may be - If the esports or "online" crowd is gonna complain about needing total and direct user input controlling every outcome no matter the skill of the player they may be controlling with no dice rolls and complete "stick skills" determining the outcome of every play (i.e. no random WR drops, no QB over/under throws, nerf fumbles, make FG kicking easier) that's their discretion .

But unless the previously stated goal of a simulation football remains the target and the goal year over year, and we keep seeing patches/tuners that change the game and push it away from that goal (QB acc, fumble nerfs, FG meter) then I can promise that they will lose one sale in myself and will also lose a few others as I tell my friends and family who also work and have limited time and play Franchise mode that they need not bother with the newest Madden going forward.

My biggest problem is with this year is that I researched it, asked the questions, watched the videos and made my decision. I loved seeing missed FG's and XP just like the real NFL. I loved seeing a RB fumble just like the NFL, I loved seeing inaccurate passes just like the NFL. So I made the purchase. Then they patched out everything I liked about the game and made it into Madden 16 all over again.

Bottom line, every year they nerf the game to appease the online crowd.

Given that they can patch it at any time and completely change the gameplay that you paid for, how can anyone feel like handing them the premium price at launch when I can get it for 19.99 a year later after all the patches are out and make an informed decision. Getting the game at launch is probably only in the best interest of the online gamer.

[mtmetcalfe]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

100% yes and I'll give EA Sports another piece of information, however meaningless it may be - If the esports or "online" crowd is gonna complain about needing total and direct user input controlling every outcome no matter the skill of the player they may be controlling with no dice rolls and complete "stick skills" determining the outcome of every play (i.e. no random WR drops, no QB over/under throws, nerf fumbles, make FG kicking easier) that's their discretion .

But unless the previously stated goal of a simulation football remains the target and the goal year over year, and we keep seeing patches/tuners that change the game and push it away from that goal (QB acc, fumble nerfs, FG meter) then I can promise that they will lose one sale in myself and will also lose a few others as I tell my friends and family who also work and have limited time and play Franchise mode that they need not bother with the newest Madden going forward.

I can completely echo this sentiment. Madden 05 was the last Madden I purchased. I've been coming to this site every year gathering as much info as I can to determine if this is the year I'm going to get something close to simulation football, if all the legacy issues have finally been cleaned up (remember rocket catch). I'm glad that I jumped in this year but to sum up what I'm saying, let your wallet do the talking. I waited over a decade and as much as I would hate to I can wait another decade before purchase again if that's what it takes. But if they can make progress every year I have no problem purchasing the game annually.

[ehh]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

My biggest problem is with this year is that I researched it, asked the questions, watched the videos and made my decision. I loved seeing missed FG's and XP just like the real NFL. I loved seeing a RB fumble just like the NFL, I loved seeing inaccurate passes just like the NFL. So I made the purchase. Then they patched out everything I liked about the game and made it into Madden 16 all over again.

Bottom line, every year they nerf the game to appease the online crowd.

Given that they can patch it at any time and completely change the gameplay that you paid for, how can anyone feel like handing them the premium price at launch when I can get it for 19.99 a year later after all the patches are out and make an informed decision. Getting the game at launch is probably only in the best interest of the online gamer.

Yep, that's what is so damn aggravating. I don't know the exact facts for myself but I believe I've only purchased Madden four times since 2004. If the game isn't good or what I'm looking for then I pass. Combined with last year's game plus what we knew pre-release this year I made the educated decision to buy this game and I really enjoyed that game for two months.

It was fun, it was challenging, AM didn't have infuriating cheese, you got all kinds of various games (shootouts, low-scoring games, etc) and ratings felt like they mattered to all non-lineman. I was nowhere near being finished with this game, I was plowing through my CFM like I haven't done so since I was in college 15 years ago.

I guess the most concerning thing at this point is that the devs don't seem to be alarmed by it at all. I don't follow any of them on Twitter but from what I read here it seems like they don't think Patch 2 did anything wrong. I guess if they never test anything on All Madden then it's easy to see why the feel that way. I've tried all kinds of All Pro sliders (and default) and it's always too easy. I don't cheese, I consider myself an average player especially defensively and it's still too easy.

I guess the other lesson learned this year is to never buy the digital version again. I had no idea how much freedom I'd be giving up. Right now the only way to get the Madden iteration back that I want is to purchase the game for a second time, in disc format. Ugh...

[roadman]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

I can completely echo this sentiment. Madden 05 was the last Madden I purchased. I've been coming to this site every year gathering as much info as I can to determine if this is the year I'm going to get something close to simulation football, if all the legacy issues have finally been cleaned up (remember rocket catch). I'm glad that I jumped in this year but to sum up what I'm saying, let your wallet do the talking. I waited over a decade and as much as I would hate to I can wait another decade before purchase again if that's what it takes. But if they can make progress every year I have no problem purchasing the game annually.

I get your sentiment here, but if you are a member of the BBGC, a person can trade in the previous Madden and cut the price down to 30 bucks without trading another game in. I trade another game in and it's anywhere between 20-25 bucks for the new Madden.

I do that deal all day long, every day.

[jfsolo]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

Don't really know anyone who would say no

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I feel like some folks in upper management are the ones who would say no, and getting this done relies on their approval. The allocation of additional resources for separate gameplay changes for less than half of their customer base, a segment that is not likely to add money to the coffers through micro-transactions, is going to be a tough sell, IMO.

[Hooe]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

As Underdog said, there's no reason for anyone to say no to this lol.

I'm personally in the "I don't care" camp as an end user, but from the game development and post-release support perspective I can think of several very good reasons to keep the entire population of Madden locked into a single high-level gameplay configuration:

• ability for game designers to track and measure gameplay balance using telemetry and quickly identify issues
• ability for game designers and developers to deliver title updates and tuning updates which address gameplay balance issues in a timely fashion
• desire to avoid an explicit schism of the Madden user base between online franchise and traditional competitive modes (Ultimate Team, Draft Champions, online ranked)

Again, as an end user I personally don't care and I have no reason to oppose more options for others to better enjoy the game, but from the developer's perspective this isn't at all a cut-and-dry decision.

[ehh]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

I'm personally in the "I don't care" camp as an end user, but from the game development and post-release support perspective...

This thread and the question was pretty clearly aimed at end users so that's why I answered that way.

Honestly, I don't care about the reasons that EA may have for not doing it. NBA2K has figured out how to implement it very well as has The Show from what others have said (again, not a PS4 owner so I can't vouch personally). If EA wants to lock us into one style of gameplay I'm all for it as long as that style is simulation. Not some weird bastardization of sim and arcade while marketing the game as sim.

[Gosens6]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

100% yes. There's just two different types of people who play this game.

No one should be judged for how they play, but it's almost impossible for the devs to please everyone.

This gives us options. Offline only players, and "tournament style" players will both be happy.

On that note, online should have sim lobbies for guys who want to play against one another with the sim settings active

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[bcruise]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

This isn't even a question. The only question is whether we'll ever get it.