Re: Make it a little more like madden
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wwharton said:
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coogrfan said:
I wasn't saying I think ESPN is an arcade game, I was refering to one of the standard complaints from Madden fans about ESPN. To be specific, most Madden fans feel that player ratings don't play a big enough role in ESPN, that most success is based on button-mashing skills(again, that's not my opinion, just stating my perception of the average Madden fans thoughts on this subject).
As for your example, I agree that the scores in Madden tourneys are ridiculous. But that is result of the general lack of attention paid to defense in the Madden series in recent years. This years version sounds as though EA is taking steps to give defenses a fighting chance. We'll see.
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responding to this one since the other was getting too long, lol. you kind of didn't answer my question. i don't think this is the reason madden fans prefer it to espn, that could be a thousand different things. i'm speaking specifically about players running/movement when they have the ball in their hands or they are chasing someone with a human controlled defender. they may still prefer madden the game but i think the look plays a very big role in why they prefer the style.
as for button mashing being arcady i always find that funny. we are playing video games right? whether you push and hold a button or press it over and over you're still pushing a button. if that's what "arcady" is then all games are. it's funny that pushing a button and watching a player reach his peak ability would be considered more realistic.
You can't really break things down so much. Madden wraps up a potentially realistic experience by making player's ratings play a large role. Take out the glitches and AI cheats and you should always end up with realistic stats in Madden b/c they'll make it that way since ratings hold such a strong role. The argument is it's realistic if Jamal Lewis runs over anyone that tries to bring him down b/c that's what he does. It's realistic if you never break a Ray Lewis tackle b/c that's what he does. My thing is if you're only concerned about these realistic stats then why even pick up the controller. You don't have much of an effect on the outcome besides play calling, choosing who to pass to, choosing which direction to run and possibly getting in the right spot on D.
ESPN makes you not only think about who's making the play but HOW YOU can maximize that player's ability to make the play. I can hit the right hole but if I shoulder charge with Faulk or Juke with Jamal or do nothing with either I won't have much success despite them being high rated players. I can be in the right spot to make an interception with Suggs but he's low in catching so he'll probably still drop it. I can be using Law but if I don't approach the ball properly he won't intercept it. To me this is realism. I want to feel like I lost b/c of my lack of skill or the decisions I made on the field, not just when calling plays. The only on the field decision I think really matters in Madden when on O is throwing a pass that gets picked off. Otherwise ratings pretty much control the game.
this carries over off the field too. Madden is wonderful for stat tracking, franchise mode, owners mode. This stuff builds on simmed games and seasons even. ESPN's franchise and extras are geared towards trying to improve play on the field. it's not hard to see the different styles but people don't want to accept them, want to ignore them, whatever and that's why there's always arguments about which is MORE realistic. it really is like comparing apples to oranges.
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If I understand what you're saying, you believe that if Madden had jerky running and ESPN had the smooth animations then most people would prefer ESPN. I don't agree because I believe that the primary objection of most Maddenites to the 2k series(prior to this year) is that player ratings are less important than arcade skills(be it tapping a speed burst, filling up a charge meter, zig-zagging and/or instantly starting and stopping with no regard for the basic laws of physics, etc.).
I also wouldn't say that Madden/NCAA is entirely ratings dominated, that stick skills are unimportant. Less important, yes, but not insignficant. The fact is some of us(especially those of us who are getting older
) just don't possess the arcade skills to fully enjoy ESPN. I have a similar problem with VC's highly regarded NBA series. I can see why people like them, but who the hell decided that making free-throws should depend on ones ability to manipulate two analog sticks(ps2) simultaneously? For me(and I'll wager for a a lot of other people) that essentially renders the game unplayable. ESPN NFL is less frustrating in this area, but the emphasis on gaming skills is still there. If ESPN fans prefer it, great. But not everyone wants to play that type of game.
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wwharton said:
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coogrfan said:
I wasn't saying I think ESPN is an arcade game, I was refering to one of the standard complaints from Madden fans about ESPN. To be specific, most Madden fans feel that player ratings don't play a big enough role in ESPN, that most success is based on button-mashing skills(again, that's not my opinion, just stating my perception of the average Madden fans thoughts on this subject).
As for your example, I agree that the scores in Madden tourneys are ridiculous. But that is result of the general lack of attention paid to defense in the Madden series in recent years. This years version sounds as though EA is taking steps to give defenses a fighting chance. We'll see.
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responding to this one since the other was getting too long, lol. you kind of didn't answer my question. i don't think this is the reason madden fans prefer it to espn, that could be a thousand different things. i'm speaking specifically about players running/movement when they have the ball in their hands or they are chasing someone with a human controlled defender. they may still prefer madden the game but i think the look plays a very big role in why they prefer the style.
as for button mashing being arcady i always find that funny. we are playing video games right? whether you push and hold a button or press it over and over you're still pushing a button. if that's what "arcady" is then all games are. it's funny that pushing a button and watching a player reach his peak ability would be considered more realistic.
You can't really break things down so much. Madden wraps up a potentially realistic experience by making player's ratings play a large role. Take out the glitches and AI cheats and you should always end up with realistic stats in Madden b/c they'll make it that way since ratings hold such a strong role. The argument is it's realistic if Jamal Lewis runs over anyone that tries to bring him down b/c that's what he does. It's realistic if you never break a Ray Lewis tackle b/c that's what he does. My thing is if you're only concerned about these realistic stats then why even pick up the controller. You don't have much of an effect on the outcome besides play calling, choosing who to pass to, choosing which direction to run and possibly getting in the right spot on D.
ESPN makes you not only think about who's making the play but HOW YOU can maximize that player's ability to make the play. I can hit the right hole but if I shoulder charge with Faulk or Juke with Jamal or do nothing with either I won't have much success despite them being high rated players. I can be in the right spot to make an interception with Suggs but he's low in catching so he'll probably still drop it. I can be using Law but if I don't approach the ball properly he won't intercept it. To me this is realism. I want to feel like I lost b/c of my lack of skill or the decisions I made on the field, not just when calling plays. The only on the field decision I think really matters in Madden when on O is throwing a pass that gets picked off. Otherwise ratings pretty much control the game.
this carries over off the field too. Madden is wonderful for stat tracking, franchise mode, owners mode. This stuff builds on simmed games and seasons even. ESPN's franchise and extras are geared towards trying to improve play on the field. it's not hard to see the different styles but people don't want to accept them, want to ignore them, whatever and that's why there's always arguments about which is MORE realistic. it really is like comparing apples to oranges.
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If I understand what you're saying, you believe that if Madden had jerky running and ESPN had the smooth animations then most people would prefer ESPN. I don't agree because I believe that the primary objection of most Maddenites to the 2k series(prior to this year) is that player ratings are less important than arcade skills(be it tapping a speed burst, filling up a charge meter, zig-zagging and/or instantly starting and stopping with no regard for the basic laws of physics, etc.).
I also wouldn't say that Madden/NCAA is entirely ratings dominated, that stick skills are unimportant. Less important, yes, but not insignficant. The fact is some of us(especially those of us who are getting older
) just don't possess the arcade skills to fully enjoy ESPN. I have a similar problem with VC's highly regarded NBA series. I can see why people like them, but who the hell decided that making free-throws should depend on ones ability to manipulate two analog sticks(ps2) simultaneously? For me(and I'll wager for a a lot of other people) that essentially renders the game unplayable. ESPN NFL is less frustrating in this area, but the emphasis on gaming skills is still there. If ESPN fans prefer it, great. But not everyone wants to play that type of game.
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