From Gamespot Forums
Okay, let's put this absurd level of controversy surrounding Killzone and Sony's "lies" to rest. I'm going to try to cut through the favorite pre-renders, and remind people of what they may have forgot. Let's go one by one through what Sony showed us on a box that isn't even "final hardware" (the MS fanboy's own saving grace).
1. Luna Pixel Shader Demo - I believe this is real-time. I've heard nothing to the contrary. And this alone looks better than anything I've ever seen done in real-time.
2. Unreal Engine 3 Demo - Real-time. Absurdly beautiful. It speaks for itself, but there are some interesting Tim Sweeney quotes: "Shaders that are more than 200 times more complex than was possible in the previous generation" "All of the effects that you have seen in previous generation movies are now being done in real-time" "We got the first PlayStation 3 hardware only 2 months ago"
Let me guess, Tim is lying for Sony?
3. "Lots of Ducks" Demo - Real-time. Very impressive to anyone who understands the kind of processing power required.
3b. Eye-Toy Duck Demo - Real-time. The things this guy does with two neon cylinders and a current-gen Eye-Toy is jaw dropping (you can hear it in the audience). I've never seen water seperated like that in real-time.
4. Leaves Vortex Demo - Real-time. Hundreds of Thousands of leaves. 5.1 Surround Sound. Every leaf has it's OWN audio channel.
5. Blow-It-Up Demo - Real-time. Uses only the Cell processor. "Renders volumetrically all of the performance required to simulate an explosion, thermo-dynamics, heat, gas, smoke, fire." And this is for a game in development.
6. Alfred Molina Demo - Real-time. Breathtaking. I showed this to a friend and he said "So what? The PlayStation 3 can play DVDs..." not realizing what was happening. Phil Harrison on this demo: "the Alfred Molina head - is actually more of a Cell demo than it is a graphics demo, because we're calculating hugely complicated light sources in real-time on the Cell, even to the point where we calculate the angle at which light enters the skin, the way that the light is then coloured by your blood, and the way that it is then reflected back out."
7. Satellite + LIDAR Landscape Demo - Obviously a video, but claimed to be real-time using only the Cell. Phil Harrison: "The terrain rendering demo that was done by STI, which is the people who developed the Cell, doesn't use the graphics chip at all. That 3D landscape was generated in real-time from two input data sources and a software renderer running on the Cell created the final image. All that it does is output as a bitmap straight to the video hardware - it doesn't even create a single polygon, there's no concept of a polygon in that demo."
8. SOE Fantasy Landscape Demo - Another pre-recorded real-time. Impressive, even with a grain of salt.
9. The Getaway Demo - Pre-recorded but real-time.
10 Spider-Man + Gran Turismo Demo - Not sure exactly what's going on here, but the combination is seamless.
11. 12 Simlutaneous Channel HD Decoding/1000 Decoded Media Thumbnails
12. Fight Night Demo - Real-time. You all know it and love it.
13. Final Fantasy VII Tech Demo - I assume this is scripted real-time, otherwise it's just the FFVII intro with a super nice looking Cloud at the end.
14. Video of developers praising the PlayStation 3.
After this is where the drama begins. It's not really clear if any of the game demos are real-time, or just pre-rendered.
So let's assume Sony is "lying." After all, they're not Microsoft. Let's just say all the Sony developed games (The F-1 Game, Vision Gran Turismo, Killzone and some of the games from the second segment) are just CGI.
What about the demos from the other developers?
Are Square-Enix, Electronic Arts, Capcom, Ban Dai, Namco, RockStar, Insomniac, Sega, and UbiSoft lying to us too? Trying to over-hype Sony's system?
The key difference between the hype of the PlayStation 3 vs. the PlayStation 2 is the large showing and support from third party developers. So they're all taking a risk if they're bloating it's capabilities.
Due to this, I think such a level of cynicism based around what has been shown is unrealistic and desperate.
And even with just the REAL tech demos I outlined earlier, anybody with sense would leave their conference impressed. I can't understand this hyper-focusing on a couple of demos, simply because they look too good to be true. I think everything shown was too good to be true.
So anyway, let's just see what happens.
(some quotes taken from http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9051)
Originally posted by Madriiax
Okay, let's put this absurd level of controversy surrounding Killzone and Sony's "lies" to rest. I'm going to try to cut through the favorite pre-renders, and remind people of what they may have forgot. Let's go one by one through what Sony showed us on a box that isn't even "final hardware" (the MS fanboy's own saving grace).
1. Luna Pixel Shader Demo - I believe this is real-time. I've heard nothing to the contrary. And this alone looks better than anything I've ever seen done in real-time.
2. Unreal Engine 3 Demo - Real-time. Absurdly beautiful. It speaks for itself, but there are some interesting Tim Sweeney quotes: "Shaders that are more than 200 times more complex than was possible in the previous generation" "All of the effects that you have seen in previous generation movies are now being done in real-time" "We got the first PlayStation 3 hardware only 2 months ago"
Let me guess, Tim is lying for Sony?
3. "Lots of Ducks" Demo - Real-time. Very impressive to anyone who understands the kind of processing power required.
3b. Eye-Toy Duck Demo - Real-time. The things this guy does with two neon cylinders and a current-gen Eye-Toy is jaw dropping (you can hear it in the audience). I've never seen water seperated like that in real-time.
4. Leaves Vortex Demo - Real-time. Hundreds of Thousands of leaves. 5.1 Surround Sound. Every leaf has it's OWN audio channel.
5. Blow-It-Up Demo - Real-time. Uses only the Cell processor. "Renders volumetrically all of the performance required to simulate an explosion, thermo-dynamics, heat, gas, smoke, fire." And this is for a game in development.
6. Alfred Molina Demo - Real-time. Breathtaking. I showed this to a friend and he said "So what? The PlayStation 3 can play DVDs..." not realizing what was happening. Phil Harrison on this demo: "the Alfred Molina head - is actually more of a Cell demo than it is a graphics demo, because we're calculating hugely complicated light sources in real-time on the Cell, even to the point where we calculate the angle at which light enters the skin, the way that the light is then coloured by your blood, and the way that it is then reflected back out."
7. Satellite + LIDAR Landscape Demo - Obviously a video, but claimed to be real-time using only the Cell. Phil Harrison: "The terrain rendering demo that was done by STI, which is the people who developed the Cell, doesn't use the graphics chip at all. That 3D landscape was generated in real-time from two input data sources and a software renderer running on the Cell created the final image. All that it does is output as a bitmap straight to the video hardware - it doesn't even create a single polygon, there's no concept of a polygon in that demo."
8. SOE Fantasy Landscape Demo - Another pre-recorded real-time. Impressive, even with a grain of salt.
9. The Getaway Demo - Pre-recorded but real-time.
10 Spider-Man + Gran Turismo Demo - Not sure exactly what's going on here, but the combination is seamless.
11. 12 Simlutaneous Channel HD Decoding/1000 Decoded Media Thumbnails
12. Fight Night Demo - Real-time. You all know it and love it.
13. Final Fantasy VII Tech Demo - I assume this is scripted real-time, otherwise it's just the FFVII intro with a super nice looking Cloud at the end.
14. Video of developers praising the PlayStation 3.
After this is where the drama begins. It's not really clear if any of the game demos are real-time, or just pre-rendered.
So let's assume Sony is "lying." After all, they're not Microsoft. Let's just say all the Sony developed games (The F-1 Game, Vision Gran Turismo, Killzone and some of the games from the second segment) are just CGI.
What about the demos from the other developers?
Are Square-Enix, Electronic Arts, Capcom, Ban Dai, Namco, RockStar, Insomniac, Sega, and UbiSoft lying to us too? Trying to over-hype Sony's system?
The key difference between the hype of the PlayStation 3 vs. the PlayStation 2 is the large showing and support from third party developers. So they're all taking a risk if they're bloating it's capabilities.
Due to this, I think such a level of cynicism based around what has been shown is unrealistic and desperate.
And even with just the REAL tech demos I outlined earlier, anybody with sense would leave their conference impressed. I can't understand this hyper-focusing on a couple of demos, simply because they look too good to be true. I think everything shown was too good to be true.
So anyway, let's just see what happens.
(some quotes taken from http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9051)
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