Negativity in Gaming??

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  • ODogg
    Hall Of Fame
    • Feb 2003
    • 37953

    #16
    Re: Negativity in Gaming??

    Originally posted by JoshC1977
    I think entitlement is the biggest issue overall that has bred negativity (and it's a microcosm of a larger societal issue - we won't delve into that, lol).

    Just because you buy a game does not mean you're entitled to get what you want. The reality is that the purchase price entitles you to nothing other than the product you have purchased.

    But in addition to the "loud" individuals, you have the petty extremists (for example, the "hardcore sim" gamers for sports games or the "pro" gamers), "influencers", and the money-driven "content creators" all thinking their opinions should be heard and it is all a bloody mess. So you get a whole lot of people spouting-off with their entitlement-driven POVs and with opinions inherently varying amongst individuals, it creates conflict and anger. Many folks cross the line from "passion" to "pettiness" and the crux of it boils down to whether the person is thinking about the interests of the entire gaming audience or their own sense of entitlement/selfishness.

    To be totally honest, I went through a period where the negativity in the gaming space was really bringing me down. I finally wised-up and adjusted my own behaviors to get away from this crap.

    1. I liberally block/mute folks on various outlets (including here). I stopped viewing live gaming streams and don't watch sports-game content of any sort. And to be frank, many times, it's not because of the creator themselves but rather the other viewers.

    2. I only buy/play games that I enjoy and stopped buying or trying to play through a game due to some ill-conceived notion that I "have to play this". Marketing can push one to think that "every game/mode is made for me" (which, when done well, brilliantly exploits a gamer's sense of entitlement) but that is just SO far from the truth. Once I have decided to "pass" on a game, I stop engaging (whether reading or writing about) in discussion of these games. With 1000s of games out there, it is completely idiotic for someone to get hung-up on one game...go play something else!

    3. I had to stop doing (and reading) slider threads here for sports games as they encouraged within me a strong sense of entitlement (i.e. "I think this game should play THIS way" vs just enjoying how a game was developed) and exposed me to more negativity from others. I now realize that just because sliders are in a game, their presence should not override the mindset in number 2. Either a developer makes a game I enjoy or they don't (and I don't buy it). This mindset has allowed me to truly focus on just having fun with the games I love without wasting loads of time trying to coax enjoyment out of other games. I'm not saying this to judge others; this is what I had to do for myself (though I would encourage anyone here to be introspective and ask themselves if it is truly worth it for them - the answer will vary amongst individuals).

    Anyways, that's my "take" and my "journey" through dealing with this....
    Well I applaud you doing what was smart and necessary to protect your mental health, it doesn't seem as if a lot of people are ever that much into self-evaluation of their own selves, they prefer to instead evaluate others endlessly unfortunately.

    Ditto with you on the sliders. I used to go into them and just fiddle and never get it right because I think you start out-thinking yourself and it just gets so complicated you even wonder what in the world you were thinking going down this rabbit hole? LOL, so I really super do try to never mess with sliders anymore.

    I'm 53 and so I've been around pre-internet, the internets start, growth, etc. I started my IT career working at a computer store so I've been on this thing since day one pretty much.

    We are currently going through the keyboard warrior-self hatred phase apparently. And if you hate yourself, or maybe not your entire self, but something about yourself, then it seems obvious that you have anger, and that anger is fed some solace by insulting someone else and, hopefully, really also making their day bad cuz F***** them!!

    That's the greatly shared attitude I see and I too was caught up in it, although I honestly never went personal, I'd often try to make people look bad if they disagreed and I just realized, with therapy, that it was hurting me personally and my own mental health because i'm not a person who really enjoys hurting others, as corny as it sounds, I compared it to a sort of suicide bomber who is willing to inflict some pain or death on himself if he hurts, or kills others. It's just a really, really bad thing to get sucked into and so I have stopped arguing. I'll debate but if it goes into arguing I move on or simply say something nice, if I can, to that person.

    I also had the same issues with gaming and me thinking how awful things were, how Madden was never going to be where I wanted it, and just total disenchantment with the industry. So honestly I took about 6 or 7 months off from gaming and just thought about it all. And when I decided to return I came back on board with new eyes, as if I was sort of new to gaming again.

    I was then really able to appreciate the positives and the great amount of choice and amazing worlds, that's right WORLDS, not games that these guys and gals who grew up on games were now making. I have found since I just kinda roll with the punches, as they say, and try to laugh off some bugs, not get fixated on them, however I can deal with it.

    It's not like I just say all games are great and ho hum bugs are cool too. Because if I find something, say a bug, that really is detrimental to me enjoying a game, I won't go to a forum or Facebook or Twitter, I go to the company's website and submit a ticket or comment.

    I have no issues at all with folks like say LBzRule, who can offer true constructive criticisms...or even explain what they have issues with a game about, but it's just being negative to try to rain on others parades is what I take some issue with, as if the goal is just to really get people to agree with you that the game has absolutely no redeeming value and how dare you like it?

    I have found too that the biggest thing to being happier is to really stop trying to sell anything, or anyone, in any way shape or form to someone else. Especially those who are resistant to it. So like I might say to my friend Bob "Hey Bob Forza Motorsport is awesome" and he'd say "Oh it's horrible, the car physics are absolute trash (someone said this to me for real btw, LOL)" and my response would be "Oh ok, so where do you want to get lunch?"

    Because why do we really do that? Why do I want Bob to like the same game that I like? It seems instinctual really. I think it's the desire that, when you find something fun, you just want others to have that fun too.

    But there is no logic in really trying to bully someone into having fun "your way" if you stop and think about it. The problem though is it's an emotional, cave-man type way of thinking that gets into even the best of our heads. Once you can realize the folly of that way of thinking though, man your life becomes so much easier. It's not easy though, I am still working on this myself..
    Streaming PC & PS5 games, join me most nights after 6:00pm ET on TwitchTV https://www.twitch.tv/shaunh20
    or Tiktok https://www.tiktok.com/@shaunh741

    Comment

    • Anthraticus
      Rookie
      • Oct 2018
      • 304

      #17
      Re: Negativity in Gaming??

      Probably just the people that overly focus on the state of the AAA landscape.

      Comment

      • ODogg
        Hall Of Fame
        • Feb 2003
        • 37953

        #18
        Re: Negativity in Gaming??

        Originally posted by Anthraticus
        Probably just the people that overly focus on the state of the AAA landscape.
        That's a good point, and with each hugely hyped up release are always stories about various "game breaking bugs" which aren't game breaking, nor noticeable by most gamers.

        There's an awful lot of great games outside those AAA titles
        Streaming PC & PS5 games, join me most nights after 6:00pm ET on TwitchTV https://www.twitch.tv/shaunh20
        or Tiktok https://www.tiktok.com/@shaunh741

        Comment

        • Hooe
          Hall Of Fame
          • Aug 2002
          • 21554

          #19
          Re: Negativity in Gaming??

          Originally posted by m1ke_nyc
          Tribalism and social media. Social media kinda promotes it.
          This, on top of the anonymity built into most social media platforms tends to render moot the consequences of any hostility one might hurl into the world.

          It's nothing new. I've witnessed the tribalism play out on this forum since even before the NFL - EA Sports exclusivity deal was signed. Even going back to grade school, you'd have kids argue way too passionately about SEGA vs Nintendo, because most families couldn't afford to have both systems. The trend of overt negativity being the new normal throughout the landscape of online video game communities probably took its strongest hold probably around the peak of GamerGate, by my guesstimation. There have been positive changes since, but it's still... not a great environment. The shelter-in-place protocols many endured during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic limiting peoples' opportunities to explore social spaces away from the internet certainly exacerbated the situation.

          Additionally, we all also are just much more in-tune with the reality of the video games industry and we have grown past seeing video games as innocent toys. Major media outlets cover video games with a far more critical eye than they did in the 1990s, and online game communities are quick to amplify published articles about games which go on sale unfinished, games featuring predatory monetization policies, or companies abusing their workforce to deliver a game to market in time for it to positively impact the next quarterly earnings report. Negativity has driven the published news industry since time immemorial, so nothing new there, but the availability of social spaces on the internet does allow the snake to eat its own tail a bit.
          Last edited by Hooe; 10-16-2023, 07:31 PM.

          Comment

          • Madden08PCgmr
            MVP
            • Feb 2017
            • 2438

            #20
            Re: Negativity in Gaming??

            Originally posted by Armor and Sword
            I am having a blast gaming.

            Period.
            I'm just.. not

            I can't get the experience I want out of Madden or MLBtS

            I need to give the NBA2k content a whirl. I found the original 2k pc mod FAR too late, and I was still digging Madden PC.

            I would totally do a long-term Show franchise. It takes too long to build the rosters. I've done a real-time Mariners franchise. I like Julio. I really like Kirby... well, I love Junior. I love Unit, Edgar, Buhner, Wilson... the M's squandered tons of young talent in that window.. I just can't get the experience I want. I can't find it within myself to accept that.

            Worse with Madden. Except I've played most of my fictional dream scenarios on 08. I'd like to do that on a newer version. Maybe 24 will give me that in time? I'm hopeful, anyway.

            I just find it hard to believe this is where I am in this stream of time. PS5, and I have LESS options than I did 2 consoles ago? As the Europeans say, P*ss off!!
            You want free speech?
            Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.

            Comment

            • pietasterp
              All Star
              • Feb 2004
              • 6244

              #21
              Re: Negativity in Gaming??

              I think it's just the natural progression of video games from fun novel pastime to massively profitable business. Many of us who grew up with the original NES, SNES, etc. grew up when games were made by people who loved games and were made basically with "fun" in mind, and very little else. Of course they had to make money to survive, but the fortunes that could be made in video games had not yet been realized (and subsequently exploited) by the major companies.

              Fast forward to now, and the video game industry is a much bigger business than the movie industry. Games are ruthlessly monetized and specifically designed to be casinos that extract the maximum amount of money from each and every user right from day 1 of the game's conception, and the core gameplay loop is designed not to be the most 'fun', but the most 'addictive'. Those 2 objectives are absolutely not the same thing.

              This leads to some inevitable tradeoffs in terms of quality, focus, and overall objectives in programming (e.g. stress monetization over making the blocking or tackling better in "Madden"), almost none of which end up being better for the user. As technology has gotten better, the expectations from end users has increased, and when that doesn't meet where people "think" we should be, all while they're getting chiseled at purchase and every moment after purchase, in a world where competition (especially in the sports game genre) has been essentially eliminated, and you get the current state of affairs.

              I would say that the situation in non-sports gaming is better than that of sports gaming, where all of the above trends have really negatively affected things in the past few decades, but it really has affected most aspects of the hobby. It's a pretty good time to be a general non-sports gamer, I think. I also think it's the worst time ever to be a sports game fan. *

              Comment

              • Anthraticus
                Rookie
                • Oct 2018
                • 304

                #22
                Re: Negativity in Gaming??

                Sports games need more stuff like Fire Pro. Forget about expecting any type of incline from greedy AAA corps already. Focus on the gameplay and give players a deep toolset for creating guys to make up for the lack of licensing the game's gonna inevitably have. If the gameplay is legit good, you know the player base will go to town on it.


                No need all the fancy AAA cinematics, presentation, etc.. It doesn't need to try and LOOK exactly like the real thing with all these photo realistic animations and such if it's not as fun to play because they're not at the point yet where they can get it to look how they want to and make it play great and free flowing too. I've been pretty much out of the modern sports gaming scene since the earlier part of the 2000s and it's not worth the trade off for me.



                I agree that gaming going 'super mainstream' around 2006, messed up a lot of things across the industry and we didn't start getting some real 'relief' until things like digital distribution and crowd funding really started getting going years later.
                Last edited by Anthraticus; 10-17-2023, 07:04 AM.

                Comment

                • ODogg
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 37953

                  #23
                  Re: Negativity in Gaming??

                  Originally posted by m1ke_nyc
                  Tribalism and social media. Social media kinda promotes it. Xbox vs PlayStation, iOS vs Android, Right vs Left. With the way the internet builds a profile for you, if you read a lot of pro PlayStation anti Xbox content, it will keep pushing that stuff to you so you get a tainted view of things. It even happens with individual games. Everyone is constantly fighting with each other because “everything I read or watch says this is right snd that is wrong”. Well no, you’re just consuming 1 opinion. Go to a ryanmoody vid and tell them something in Madden improved. You’ll get ripped to shreds because they only watch a channel dedicated to pointing out flaws and likely have a feed full of glitch videos.
                  Yes, it's a culture promoted by the media, and dutifully eaten up by the sheep-like public, that everything is us vs them, you vs me, you're either with me, or you're against me, mentality.

                  I see it here as well, we have a few resident trolls of negativity. I was just posting in the Call of Duty MW3 thread and saw one of my favorite trolls there discussing the game, lol, ain't hard to pick out Mr. Negative in that thread

                  People really should stop and self evaluate their attitudes and how they are being manipulated to be kept in control, fighting one another, always being suspicious, being made to enforce one side (whatever that may be) come hell or high water...

                  It's fairly obvious for all to see if you take the time to step back and look at what are your attitudes about life, about gaming, your hobbies, your life, and why are they the way that they currently are?

                  If you're not happy then change it, you can't change the world or even your friends, but you can change yourself.
                  Last edited by ODogg; 10-17-2023, 09:47 AM.
                  Streaming PC & PS5 games, join me most nights after 6:00pm ET on TwitchTV https://www.twitch.tv/shaunh20
                  or Tiktok https://www.tiktok.com/@shaunh741

                  Comment

                  • Jeffx
                    MVP
                    • Jan 2007
                    • 3045

                    #24
                    Re: Negativity in Gaming??

                    Originally posted by Armor and Sword
                    I am having a blast gaming.

                    Period.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
                    Same here brother, and I'm still rocking my PS3 & PS2. I'm 62, and having fun playing the classics. Fun is all that matters!

                    Comment

                    • piffbernd
                      Rookie
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 401

                      #25
                      Re: Negativity in Gaming??

                      Ps3/mid ps4 was best time in gaming. Sports games now isn't it what it was. Gaming now is basically beta testing for developers

                      Comment

                      • ODogg
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Feb 2003
                        • 37953

                        #26
                        Re: Negativity in Gaming??

                        Originally posted by piffbernd
                        Ps3/mid ps4 was best time in gaming. Sports games now isn't it what it was. Gaming now is basically beta testing for developers
                        Well see I would put a positive spin on that though, while I 100% agree that games are a bit too buggy upon release, I'm also old enough (I am 53) to know that it is still worlds better than waiting years for a game and then you get it and there's a bug where you can't get by level 7 and so that's it, game over, no patch possible back in those old days.
                        Streaming PC & PS5 games, join me most nights after 6:00pm ET on TwitchTV https://www.twitch.tv/shaunh20
                        or Tiktok https://www.tiktok.com/@shaunh741

                        Comment

                        • DrJones
                          All Star
                          • Mar 2003
                          • 9108

                          #27
                          Re: Negativity in Gaming??

                          Originally posted by pietasterp
                          I think it's just the natural progression of video games from fun novel pastime to massively profitable business. Many of us who grew up with the original NES, SNES, etc. grew up when games were made by people who loved games and were made basically with "fun" in mind, and very little else. Of course they had to make money to survive, but the fortunes that could be made in video games had not yet been realized (and subsequently exploited) by the major companies.

                          Fast forward to now, and the video game industry is a much bigger business than the movie industry. Games are ruthlessly monetized and specifically designed to be casinos that extract the maximum amount of money from each and every user right from day 1 of the game's conception, and the core gameplay loop is designed not to be the most 'fun', but the most 'addictive'. Those 2 objectives are absolutely not the same thing.
                          Worked on games in both eras you're describing, and you're 100% correct. It's no fun for devs, either - at least for those of us who give a ****.
                          Originally posted by Thrash13
                          Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
                          Originally posted by slickdtc
                          DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
                          Originally posted by Kipnis22
                          yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

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