Reasoning Behind "No Switch Rules"

[NDAlum]

Quote: Originally Posted by SuperBowlNachos

I get why a league would do it, but would never want to be apart of one. It's a freaking video game, and I want to play the damn game. Might as well as go as far as you can't do any user control in a game, but hike the ball and let the CPU do everything even throw the ball. Find guys who play sim if you are worried about it.

This would be so much better if you ended it here as I found the remainder to be unnecessary and inflammatory.

[ithinkimchipkelly]

try playing in a lg or game with the browns or any low overall team with no switching. than play again with switching you will notice how much harder it is to play in NO switch lgs yet alone with low rated teams.

Your play calling will have to be on point defense and really learn the tendencies of other human users to be able to field a defense to stop them.

Take a low rated LB or Safety with terrible pursuit and try to make plays now take a good one and do the same.

NO switch rules is close to NFL on sundays u will get. Simple and Plain if disagree we can lace up them sticks Stillmatic Kyd on XBL. We can twitch to let users view on twitch.

[ithinkimchipkelly]

Quote: Originally Posted by SuperBowlNachos

I get why a league would do it, but would never want to be apart of one. It's a freaking video game, and I want to play the damn game. Might as well as go as far as you can't do any user control in a game, but hike the ball and let the CPU do everything even throw the ball. Find guys who play sim if you are worried about it.

the cpu is doing everything regardless NO switch or switch. all players in switch lgs or who play like that is having the luxury of switching to another player to make up for bad play calling or miss tacking etc.

Switching at last second to make a play on ball doesn't require skill at all. b/c its the AI putting you in place to be able to make a play on ball at last second.

No switch if you see User flash across the screen means they put theirselves in that position to make a play by reading offense and diagnosing play after snap allowing them to pre act instead of react.

[goldstandard]

Quote: Originally Posted by NDAlum

You need to meet our mindset halfway. Do we want user input to matter? Yes we do Do we want ratings/attributes to matter? Yes we do I disagree with the premise that user catching doesn't involve stick skills. It may not be the same as the rocket catching in the past but you can still use the LS to move/manipulate the route to get your WR in better position for the catch. The idea is to have the mix of user skill/ratings + leveling the playing field for guys who don't have the best stick skills. The bolded question is like me asking you "If you want more control why don't you go outside and pick up a football?"

At no point in madden 16 do I believe I ever used the left stick to put my guy in a "better" position to get a catch. Nor did I ever see any youtube videos or forum posts about using the left stick to achieve better animation or catch results. Now if I was just under a rock, and this was something that was commonly done, then I understand that view point. The use of "advanced" supplemental mechanics supplemental mechanics, no matter how small, is still user skill. I'd maintain that merely hitting a button is not.

I disagree with your analogy. I don't want to grab a football and go outside, because I want to play NFL football which I can't do through any other medium. I never actually played NFL head coach, but to my knowledge, in that game you'd build the team, call the plays and actually see the play in the actual game like it were madden, you just wouldn't control anything. Is that your ideal game? That's a situation where the user "game" skill is completely removed and replaced solely with strategy and letting the ratings play out in their truest form. I imagine that for most that wasn't what they were looking for. For people to play a game like madden user skill inherently just has to play a role. For example it appears the right stick ball carrier moves will take some skill to best utilize. That's stick skill dictating gameplay. When a person users a D lineman and perfectly times something and uses the stick to take a better angle, that's stick skill dictating gameplay. When a qb in the pocket uses the avoidance step up feature and breaks a sack because of it, that's stick skill dictating gameplay. When a user safety, even with no switch rules enabled, breaks down and picks off a pass, that's stick skills dictating gameplay.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe I understand your argument that there's a balance that you want to strike, and that balance is going to vary from person to person. But to me a user qb being able to override all the traits and awareness a qb has and allowing him to play infinitely above his rating (I acknowledge this isn't an allowance but simply has to exist for the game to be played), users being able to play above their defensive linemans ability via user control, etc...to have these things present that take user play into consideration but then be so stringent on switching to a wr and hitting a button (if that's the only action involved, which I believe it is) seems unnecessary. I won't address the tackle switching point, although I wouldn't be thrilled playing with such a rule I do see why some people, like yourself, find it necessary and enjoyable to play with.

[TheBleedingRed21]

Here is the problem: You said you want a good discussion on no switching yet when we provide our reasoning you dismiss even the idea and keep repeating your belief.

How can you have a discussion or even begin to wonder why we use it if your being so narrow minded about it?

[goldstandard]

I don't really understand how you'd come to that view point. I'm engaging in a discussion. Asking somebody to clarify their concerns or questioning why these concerns exist is not dismissing them. I've stated several times in this thread that my opinion on no switch rules in regards to tackling has been altered. I'm not sure being "narrow minded", and having an opinion changed over the course of a few forum post can be coexistent.

[NDAlum]

Quote: Originally Posted by goldstandard

At no point in madden 16 do I believe I ever used the left stick to put my guy in a "better" position to get a catch. Nor did I ever see any youtube videos or forum posts about using the left stick to achieve better animation or catch results. Now if I was just under a rock, and this was something that was commonly done, then I understand that view point. The use of "advanced" supplemental mechanics supplemental mechanics, no matter how small, is still user skill. I'd maintain that merely hitting a button is not. I disagree with your analogy. I don't want to grab a football and go outside, because I want to play NFL football which I can't do through any other medium. I never actually played NFL head coach, but to my knowledge, in that game you'd build the team, call the plays and actually see the play in the actual game like it were madden, you just wouldn't control anything. Is that your ideal game? That's a situation where the user "game" skill is completely removed and replaced solely with strategy and letting the ratings play out in their truest form. I imagine that for most that wasn't what they were looking for. For people to play a game like madden user skill inherently just has to play a role. For example it appears the right stick ball carrier moves will take some skill to best utilize. That's stick skill dictating gameplay. When a person users a D lineman and perfectly times something and uses the stick to take a better angle, that's stick skill dictating gameplay. When a qb in the pocket uses the avoidance step up feature and breaks a sack because of it, that's stick skill dictating gameplay. When a user safety, even with no switch rules enabled, breaks down and picks off a pass, that's stick skills dictating gameplay. Now don't get me wrong, I believe I understand your argument that there's a balance that you want to strike, and that balance is going to vary from person to person. But to me a user qb being able to override all the traits and awareness a qb has and allowing him to play infinitely above his rating (I acknowledge this isn't an allowance but simply has to exist for the game to be played), users being able to play above their defensive linemans ability via user control, etc...to have these things present that take user play into consideration but then be so stringent on switching to a wr and hitting a button (if that's the only action involved, which I believe it is) seems unnecessary. I won't address the tackle switching point, although I wouldn't be thrilled playing with such a rule I do see why some people, like yourself, find it necessary and enjoyable to play with.

No.

Do we want user input to matter? Yes we do
Do we want ratings/attributes to matter? Yes we do

[goldstandard]

Quote: Originally Posted by goldstandard

At no point in madden 16 do I believe I ever used the left stick to put my guy in a "better" position to get a catch. Nor did I ever see any youtube videos or forum posts about using the left stick to achieve better animation or catch results. Now if I was just under a rock, and this was something that was commonly done, then I understand that view point. The use of "advanced" supplemental mechanics supplemental mechanics, no matter how small, is still user skill. I'd maintain that merely hitting a button is not. I disagree with your analogy. I don't want to grab a football and go outside, because I want to play NFL football which I can't do through any other medium. I never actually played NFL head coach, but to my knowledge, in that game you'd build the team, call the plays and actually see the play in the actual game like it were madden, you just wouldn't control anything. Is that your ideal game? That's a situation where the user "game" skill is completely removed and replaced solely with strategy and letting the ratings play out in their truest form. I imagine that for most that wasn't what they were looking for. For people to play a game like madden user skill inherently just has to play a role. For example it appears the right stick ball carrier moves will take some skill to best utilize. That's stick skill dictating gameplay. When a person users a D lineman and perfectly times something and uses the stick to take a better angle, that's stick skill dictating gameplay. When a qb in the pocket uses the avoidance step up feature and breaks a sack because of it, that's stick skill dictating gameplay. When a user safety, even with no switch rules enabled, breaks down and picks off a pass, that's stick skills dictating gameplay. Now don't get me wrong, I believe I understand your argument that there's a balance that you want to strike, and that balance is going to vary from person to person. But to me a user qb being able to override all the traits and awareness a qb has and allowing him to play infinitely above his rating (I acknowledge this isn't an allowance but simply has to exist for the game to be played), users being able to play above their defensive linemans ability via user control, etc...to have these things present that take user play into consideration but then be so stringent on switching to a wr and hitting a button (if that's the only action involved, which I believe it is) seems unnecessary. I won't address the tackle switching point, although I wouldn't be thrilled playing with such a rule I do see why some people, like yourself, find it necessary and enjoyable to play with.

I acknowledged exactly what you're insinuating I'm not grasping. Here's the question I'm really asking: what distinguishes the situations in my last paragraph from a user catch (assuming no other user action than hitting the catch button). Why are those accepted user aspects that just come with playing the game, while catching is not.