Reasoning Behind "No Switch Rules"

[goldstandard]

So with a new iteration of Madden coming out soon, I've began the process of attempting to get myself in a couple leagues that are active and try to maintain a game state that best attempts to replicate what happens on an actual football field. However many of the leagues I run across, have "No Switch" rules and I just don't really understand their utility. I'm hoping to engage in some healthy debate from those who prefer these rules as to why you hold that view.

So I think these rules can be broken down into pre snap and post snap rules. Now pre snap rules I understand a bit more. Because of the games blocking system and gap assignment logic ( which should be greatly improved in 17) I can understand why it may seem logical to want to render certain guys immobile to stop certain blitz setups. But there are certain adjustments independent of blitzing that this also stops. If I want to bring a safety into the box to help with the run or play man coverage on a TV, I'm unable to do that unless I commit to controlling that player. If I want a singular corner to play an off coverage, I'm not allowed to move him. Furthermore, almost all of these leagues have no "nano blitzing" (the definition of which may vary), if a user accepts this rule it renders the primary fear of premium snap movement ( blitz setup) moot because we've already stipulated those blitzes aren't allowed. Which should render pre snap regulations unneeded.

In regards to post snap, I feel like the origin of these rules definitively stems back to the madden of 6+ years ago where rocket catching was a prevalent tactic that was largely unguardable and incredibly overpowered. However the issue of rocket catching defining the game's offensive structure is long gone. At no point in madden 16 did the top players put out youtube videos demonstrating the stick work required to make abnormal, unintended catches that would be difficult to stop...they just hit Y or Triangle like everybody else. The new catching mechanics are an intended game feature. In fact I'd argue that by forcing the CPU to make the call on aggressive vs standard vs RAC catch and the play wr or swat rather than allowing the users to choose creates a situation where the AI struggles to play out those situations the way they're intended to play out because the user is actually designed by the game to make the play, unlike the rocket catch mechanics of years ago.

[TheBleedingRed21]

Re: Reasoning Behind "No Switch Rules"

It's simple.. We choose to let the AI and ratings dictate the outcome instead of user skill. Most sim leagues want ratings to be the most important factor when determining success.

[goldstandard]

Re: Reasoning Behind "No Switch Rules"

I disagree with most simple leagues wanting ratings to dictate wins and losses rather than user skill at the game. By that reasoning it would seem users would be just as content playing NFL head coach 17 and just calling the plays and letting a simulation dictate the outcome. But even so, I don't see how that applies to modern user catching. In the past, sure. It took a number of precise analog stick movements and great timing and hours in " the lab" to perfect these catches that allowed skill to solely dictate gameplan over ratings. I get wanting to prevent that. But in madden 17 we're talking about merely holding down a corresponding button. No timing, no "stick skills". Just holding a button and letting the ratings play out.

[TheBleedingRed21]

Re: Reasoning Behind "No Switch Rules"

You're missing the point. It's not the same thing as pushing a button, this is why leagues have their rules laid out, if it doesn't seem like something that works for you, you simply move on and find a league with a set of players with similar interests in play style.

[Cajungodfather]

Re: Reasoning Behind "No Switch Rules"

It is, at least for me and our league, about letting the CPU ratings for defensive players matter. When ruling can switch from player to player, speed is the only skill that really matters. Guys just get fast LBers and switch Making easy tackles. With no switch, it takes good awareness, tackling, along with other decent attributes to make stops.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[goldstandard]

Re: Reasoning Behind "No Switch Rules"

I think you're missing the point of the post. I'm not petitioning anybody to let me in a league. I'm actively doing exactly what you've suggested and finding leagues that allow switching. And once again in regards to playing the ball in the air, I fail to see how it is anything different than holding a button. Maybe there was some tactic that developed last year that I'm unaware of but it seemed apparent that all people were doing was hitting the aggressive catch, possession catch, or RAC catch depending on the situation. If there's something I'm missing there, I'd be interested in hearing it.
I never thought about that speed linebacker concept. I can see that. I do think that it's somewhat mitigated by the fact that only really helps in pursuit, but it's certainly a valid point.

[bspring3]

Re: Reasoning Behind "No Switch Rules"

I think you're missing the point of the post. I'm not petitioning anybody to let me in a league. I'm actively doing exactly what you've suggested and finding leagues that allow switching. And once again in regards to playing the ball in the air, I fail to see how it is anything different than holding a button. Maybe there was some tactic that developed last year that I'm unaware of but it seemed apparent that all people were doing was hitting the aggressive catch, possession catch, or RAC catch depending on the situation. If there's something I'm missing there, I'd be interested in hearing it.
I never thought about that speed linebacker concept. I can see that. I do think that it's somewhat mitigated by the fact that only really helps in pursuit, but it's certainly a valid point.

WR traits and attributes dictate what kind of catch that WR does in various scenarios. As a result, a user can override that if they use the buttons/switch. I would prefer the traits and attributes dictate whether they go for the aggressive, possession, etc.

Also this past madden brought about a common tactic of switching and immediately "hit sticking" since there was a low chance of failure. Another reason to eliminate the switching on defense. And you can't allow switching on one side of the ball and not the other.

[goldstandard]

Re: Reasoning Behind "No Switch Rules"

I dont believe attributes have any influence on the "type" of catch a receiver attempts. That said, Has it actually been confirmed by EA that the catching traits mean anything in user games? When you go to buy a package in Cfm for a receiver the text reads "purchase this package to be able to make X catches". It's not a tendency trait like force pass where it reads " purchase this package to decrease the chance of forcing throws into double coverage" (granted I understand this definitely doesn't apply to a user controlled qb). Every wr in the game has the ability to attempt any catch in the game when a user has control of them, I don't think that changes whether or not somebody clicks on. The text of it definitely reads as an ability, not as a tendency. That said if it's a fact that those traits influence how somebody goes for a ball, I can understand that view point. Though I think it'd be worse for an NFL reliever to attempt an over the shoulder catch rather than high pointing a ball under thrown by 4 feet because it's what he tends to do.

I actually totally see the argument on the switching for tackling purposes. I don't really even have a response to it I actually think I've somewhat had my viewpoint changed on that because of this thread. I disagree the you can't allow switching on one side and not the other. Really other than passing, and pitching the ball, you can't really "switch on offense". By allowing both sides to switch on the catch, neither side really has any sort of advantage. There's no stick skill involved, imo, it's merely pushing a button and allowing the ratings to play out. I've never seen a user barred from using the defensive line which allows them to override the power/finesse bull, swim, spin rush techniques. Isn't it the same principle?

[Aestis]

Re: Reasoning Behind "No Switch Rules"

We allow switching but I fully get why some leagues don't. It's a sliding scale between user decision making and player ratings. There's no correct spot on that scale that makes the game more or less realistic, there are merely different points on that scale that people prefer. Switching makes the game no more or less alike the NFL (thus no more or less realistic), but it serves its purpose in the real world slider of ratings vs user impact.

[NDAlum]

Re: Reasoning Behind "No Switch Rules"

I disagree with most simple leagues wanting ratings to dictate wins and losses rather than user skill at the game. By that reasoning it would seem users would be just as content playing NFL head coach 17 and just calling the plays and letting a simulation dictate the outcome. But even so, I don't see how that applies to modern user catching. In the past, sure. It took a number of precise analog stick movements and great timing and hours in " the lab" to perfect these catches that allowed skill to solely dictate gameplan over ratings. I get wanting to prevent that. But in madden 17 we're talking about merely holding down a corresponding button. No timing, no "stick skills". Just holding a button and letting the ratings play out.

You need to meet our mindset halfway.

Do we want user input to matter? Yes we do
Do we want ratings/attributes to matter? Yes we do

I disagree with the premise that user catching doesn't involve stick skills. It may not be the same as the rocket catching in the past but you can still use the LS to move/manipulate the route to get your WR in better position for the catch. The idea is to have the mix of user skill/ratings + leveling the playing field for guys who don't have the best stick skills.

The bolded question is like me asking you "If you want more control why don't you go outside and pick up a football?"

[Cajungodfather]

Re: Reasoning Behind "No Switch Rules"

I think you're missing the point of the post. I'm not petitioning anybody to let me in a league. I'm actively doing exactly what you've suggested and finding leagues that allow switching. And once again in regards to playing the ball in the air, I fail to see how it is anything different than holding a button. Maybe there was some tactic that developed last year that I'm unaware of but it seemed apparent that all people were doing was hitting the aggressive catch, possession catch, or RAC catch depending on the situation. If there's something I'm missing there, I'd be interested in hearing it.

I never thought about that speed linebacker concept. I can see that. I do think that it's somewhat mitigated by the fact that only really helps in pursuit, but it's certainly a valid point.

Pursuit is what it helps. Play a couple games with no switch and you'll see the difference. If you have a below average LBer on the outside, and the guy throws into the flats, you'll see he has no chance to make the tackle, where someone like Wagner will make a quick stop. If you are allowed to switch, even if the LBer is terrible, you can have a very fast LBer get to the ball carrier much faster, which will mask all his other flaws, like low awareness and low pursuit. Same with a CB with low coverage or awareness, you can switch to the defender on the pass, jumping In front of the wr. Where in no switch, if the guy has bad traits, he will remain of of position to make the pick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[El Generico]

Re: Reasoning Behind "No Switch Rules"

I'll say this: I have been in both types of leagues and for the most part the leagues that are no-switch tend to have users of a lower skill level in them.

I'll probably get flack for that statement, but it's an observation of mine from my time in both types of leagues.

No-switch leagues aren't all that bad, unless they are of the "you can only play defensive line on defense" type. That takes a huge amount of skill out of the game.

When you don't allow switching the only place skill difference shows up is play calling and who to throw the football to.

I've been in a league that allows switching for 2+ years and to me, that's the best set up. There are users with an advantage in decision making, and those that are better at usering players to make everyone more competitive.

At the end of the day, it comes down to personal preference, and I'm glad there are multiple types of leagues out there for everyone to enjoy.

[Cajungodfather]

Reasoning Behind "No Switch Rules"

I'll say this: I have been in both types of leagues and for the most part the leagues that are no-switch tend to have users of a lower skill level in them.



I'll probably get flack for that statement, but it's an observation of mine from my time in both types of leagues.



No-switch leagues aren't all that bad, unless they are of the "you can only play defensive line on defense" type. That takes a huge amount of skill out of the game.



When you don't allow switching the only place skill difference shows up is play calling and who to throw the football to.



I've been in a league that allows switching for 2+ years and to me, that's the best set up. There are users with an advantage in decision making, and those that are better at usering players to make everyone more competitive.



At the end of the day, it comes down to personal preference, and I'm glad there are multiple types of leagues out there for everyone to enjoy.

I disagree. There is a huge difference between guys who can user players well and guys who can't. The guys who can user the MLB extremely well, have a significant advantage over Guys who can't. They can single handedly take away the middle of the field. The best guys in our league at usering one player, usually end up leading the league in interceptions, and have the best records heading into the playoffs. I'd argue that switching actually makes it easier for guys with no stick skills, since if they take a bad angle on a tackle, they can just switch to the next closest guy, giving them another chance a making the stop.

I actually haven't seen a league that only allows DL usage. In fact, most leagues I've been in, won't allow DL usage. I'm sure there are some out there doing what you are saying, but I don't think that's the majority of sim leagues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[crice256]

Re: Reasoning Behind "No Switch Rules"

I think a lot of where the rule comes from is that there are some guys that will take a 60 OVR LB that has 90 spd but the rest of his Attributes are terrible. The user will take this player and Hold Y the whole time covering a lot more field than he should be able to cover. His awareness and PRC are most likely very low and should have blown coverages.


The No Click and Pick rule is pretty much all user skill and again takes away the actual players ratings.


Our league isn't a no switch league, but Ive played in them. Really its a way to balance the talent level in the league from what Ive seen. Im not a great user by any means but there are some that aren't good at all.


Ive played in leagues with some outstanding users and then was in a league with them in a no switch league, they didn't perform as well in the no switch league.

[SyncereBlackout]

Re: Reasoning Behind "No Switch Rules"

I disagree. There is a huge difference between guys who can user players well and guys who can't. The guys who can user the MLB extremely well, have a significant advantage over Guys who can't. They can single handedly take away the middle of the field. The best guys in our league at usering one player, usually end up leading the league in interceptions, and have the best records heading into the playoffs. I'd argue that switching actually makes it easier for guys with no stick skills, since if they take a bad angle on a tackle, they can just switch to the next closest guy, giving them another chance a making the stop.

I actually haven't seen a league that only allows DL usage. In fact, most leagues I've been in, won't allow DL usage. I'm sure there are some out there doing what you are saying, but I don't think that's the majority of sim leagues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are the guys who user and mlb very well playing deep like a safety with a lb? Are these guys you're referring to in a "sim" league (asking for clarity)