Classic Roster Ratings

[Madden08PCgmr]

Quote: Originally Posted by squashbuggie

ITP: I would use your scale of ratings and not listen to any one else. You put the work into the roster and keep it for urself if people give you flack for your work. You know what you are doing better any one else on Madden Classic Rosters.

ABSOLUTELY!

People that complain about other people's hard work should take a very long walk off a very short pier.


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[squashbuggie]

you are correct. we just do what we do and who cares about noodles ....

[rplatypus]

@ITP

I don't know enough about what they are doing with the audio to confirm anything. I do know that they added hundreds of common names to audio for created players. What I'm hoping is that it works like NBA2k, where the audio is changed when editing a current player also. I'd assume that audio will be added to drafted players in M18 but I don't know for sure. This looks like the only big difference for roster creators compared to M17. Probably M19 or later before they open it up like we all hope.

[sonofthedude777]

Quote: Originally Posted by Iteachpercussion

Over the years I have tried several things with the rosters. One roster I did lower WR speed overall. I was not super happy with the results in terms of gameplay. I can live with most of what Madden has as individual ratings, but it is the OVR formula that messes everything up. RBs are the best example because you cannot make a truly great elusive or great power back and have the OVR accurately reflect their abilities. Instead and average balanced back will end up with a higher OVR and that isn't right. However, in terms of classic rosters, my biggest issue is with QBs. You simply cannot make the game create realistic stats, in played games or simmed games with the QB ratings. There will not be enough incomplete passes, not enough interceptions and as a result the QBs are just too good. This is a problem with the build of the game because it is based on the more Modern NFL. Today's QBs are not better than QBs of the past, but the game is different, the rules are different, the offensives are different. So, the only way to adjust to fix the QBs. The other option is to simply say the classic rosters are playing in the modern world and just go with the numbers. For me personally, I do not like that option. I know a lot of people are ok with it. But I also know a lot of folks on this forum want as much true to life as they can get. That is where my dilemma is. I have thought about releasing two versions of the same roster. One would be inline with the normal Madden ratings. There would be no need for editing by the user. Then I would create another version which nerfed QBs, decreased BCV for RBs and lowered the Release and some other ratings for WRs, and nerfed TEs. That would be for those who only want to play 1 season with the roster, or are interested in editing draft classes. The problem is, that is A LOT more work on my end. I do like to play the game sometimes too. lol *Your off-topic point: I do not remember Madden ever having an audio setting for players. Do you know if that will be editable for current players?

Im a little late to the party but first of all iteach u r a stud. Thanks for your hard work. Cant u just do a closer to modern times and adjust the sliders, esp w qbs?

Personally, I dont care so much about the stats as the gameplay. I want their ratings to reflect how they were in real life. Okoye is not going to be the beast he was in Madden w 85 speed so I have no qualms with bumping him up to 90 or so. I guess it is more of how it feels. I make guys than play with them. I also think the stats are better if you use the right playbook. But it can be time consuming.

Its not exactly the same but when I play with those teams I playcall how they would for the most part ie run way more than I normally would. The stats end up being pretty real imo. 250 yds passing sometimes less and 60-120 yds rushing. I dont give a **** about sim stats though. To me its just a hell of a lot of fun to user and compete against the cpu when guys who are making plays are guys that should the way they should. Keith Byars makes a catch out of the backfield and truck the corner. It gets annoying against all madden though sometimes when avg dt are getting in everytime against hof linemen. But for the most part its great.

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[rplatypus]

Quote: Originally Posted by Iteachpercussion

*Your off-topic point: I do not remember Madden ever having an audio setting for players. Do you know if that will be editable for current players?

It looks like I was incorrect. They added audio to some common name players for the draft classes for M18. But if you edit those players, they will lose their audio.

That likely means edited players from the roster will lose audio and create a players will not have audio either. So M18 looks like it's going to be no different than M17 for classic roster makers.

*A side note:

I got away from this thread because it doesn't seem possible to discuss different rating styles without the community becoming upset. This a classic roster ratings discussion thread. I have an Xbox One not a PS4 so I have no idea what ITP's rosters or ratings even look like.

My understanding was that ITP was trying to gauge and discuss the community's interest in a new style of ratings. It limits quality responses when there are posts that say don't listen to anyone else or blasting people for trying to engage in a conversation that discusses what the thread is about.

There are numerous ways to set ratings for a roster and there are a ton of people that have tried and tested various methods already. By being able to converse with these people, it can save a roster maker multiple hours of testing which is time they could spend improving their roster or creating a different one. I've never run into one roster maker that would say they are completely 100% satisfied with their roster. There are many ways to set ratings that are much different than what EA has used.

I'll use FBG's ratings as an example. While I can't remember exactly what he had for ratings, I do remember that he had a massive difference between the top few players and the rest of the crowd. While this would work fine for playing one season, it's simply not possible to play multiple seasons if your 2nd highest rated QB is a 79 overall. The default draft classes would replace virtually the entire league in a matter of a few years unless we have the ability edit, share and import draft classes.

If you see somebody posting in somebody's roster thread that is knocking their ratings, then by all means tear into them. When it's a thread that is supposed to be a place to discuss different ratings ideas and scales then try to add to the conversation with what you have tested, what you have found to work or what you like to see in ratings. I just don't see any value added to a thread when people just say you're great, don't change anything and don't listen to feedback on a question that the OP asks.

[Iteachpercussion]

@rplatypus

Thanks for the response. I agree with everything you said. I was really hoping for a good open conversation about ratings, but that did not go too far. I really wanted input as to what folks really wanted to see and think would work best.

I also agree with your comments about alternate rating systems. With the current draft class system we have, it requires the user to do a great deal of editing after the draft. I know a lot of users are not interested in taking that much time, they just want to play the game. I completely get that and agree for the most part.

I will have my copy of M18 in hand Monday night and I will start doing some testing. I have already taken the database of player ratings for M18 and figured out averages, minimums, maximums and such for each position. I am hopeful that EA is true to their word and QB ratings will really be effective this year. If so, that may solve some of my QB problems for classic rosters.

I may also release two versions of my rosters. One will be in line with Madden ratings and should would for franchise mode and the default rookie classes. The other would have lower QB ratings and some other changes to help the roster from a sim stats standpoint. But, we will see how much time I have to make those changes.

So far, from what feedback I received, it seems most people prefer ratings in line with Madden, simply because it allows for multiple seasons. I still make a few modifications, but it does not hurt the draft class issue.

Again. thanks for your thoughts.

[rplatypus]

Just try not to burn yourself out too much with rating your rosters twice. I'll be checking around for a PS4 sale this year and I'm going to need some classic rosters to use and there are very few people that make classic rosters from scratch.

[Spartan Warrior]

The QB rating question is kind of tough, because old NFL offenses looked completely different from modern offenses. Completion percentages are way higher today in large part because the offenses are designed around short passes. Look at Sam Bradford last year: Completion percentage of almost 72%, but it's because all he was doing is throwing short passes. Only 9.8 yards per completion.

For comparison, Dan Marino in 1984 completed 64% of his passes. That's average today but was super high for the time. He averaged 14 yards per completion. So who is a more accurate passer, Marino or Bradford? If we just go by completion percentage I guess it's Bradford but anyone who's actually watched football knows that isn't true.

Old-school QBs like Joe Namath, Bobby Layne, ect. threw more INTs than TDs in their careers. That's terrible today but back then it was just part of the game. The offenses were designed around running the ball and then chucking it deep, which meant high risk and high reward, lots of intercepted passes.

If guys like Terry Bradshaw had been running modern offenses back in the 1970s, what would their completion percentages and numbers looked like? Probably a lot more like modern quarterbacks. So the bigger question is getting the teams to play the way that teams did back in that era, with tons of running and only deep passing, no WR screens and other quick hitters.