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Tackling slider? Broken tackles/blockshed

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Old 12-31-2013, 07:15 PM   #9
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Re: Tackling slider? Broken tackles/blockshed

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Originally Posted by gcoons22
MrHanky...so what are you using for sliders so far? I used your sliders on the PS3 and they were excellent. Sad to hear you're seeing significant differences on NG that make it more difficult to pinpoint what sliders effect what.

I'm still working on em for NG. This definitely is harder for some reason than CG. These sliders just don't seem to come close to doing what they're supposed to. I'm kind of struggling in it and it's made me play less lately. I think once I nail something down, I'll post a set, but not sure when that's going to be. These sliders really are more difficult for some reason. Have u heard how lowering the CPU tackling slider also causes lower fg kick power?! Ridiculous. But, it's that kind of thing that is making tweaking next gen more difficult for me. The tackling slider is a great example, too. Like I said, I was lowering it looking for broken tackles, and still wasn't seeing many at 30. But, then I realized, at 30, the CPU RB is running all over me. Not running over me necessarily, but running outside of my team every play! So, lowering tackling equals my players won't get near the ball carrier. I can't go go for that so finding a happy medium may be tough. And, strangely, the game plays well out of the box, really, but def needs some tweaks, and I initially thought they would be quick tweaks, but man, they're not. And, I just haven't been playing as much lately. I think I'm finding good pass coverage at 62 and CPU INTs at 43. Those are about the only sliders I feel solid on right now. Lol. And hum int is at 53 for me along with pass cov 62. I don't know bout u or others, but I was throwing too many picks and didn't feel like my guys were getting their fair share, so that's where I'm at with pass coverage, anyways.


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Old 01-03-2014, 10:58 AM   #10
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Re: Tackling slider? Broken tackles/blockshed

This is going to seem crazy, but try setting the Tackling sliders to 100. I, too, noticed that setting it at 0 was ineffective and that it also affected the CPU's FG ability. However, I thought about some OS theories in previous years about how certain sliders were backwards in some games, so I decided to test that theory this time.

What I noticed after setting it at 100 is that there were more broken tackles now. What I also like is that it didn't dumb down the CPU or human player's ability to make tackles; it doesn't turn every player into Earl Campbell; it just made the "tackling radius" smaller, meaning that the suction tackling that's visible on default was less apparent. The user now has to be smarter when tackling; you can't just go diving at players carelessly knowing that you'll get the tackle. And against the CPU, it allows more elusive players to actually utilize the jukes and stuff that were marketed with some effectiveness without them being overly powerful like they were in Madden 04.
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Old 01-03-2014, 01:16 PM   #11
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Re: Tackling slider? Broken tackles/blockshed

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Originally Posted by Mos1ted
This is going to seem crazy, but try setting the Tackling sliders to 100. I, too, noticed that setting it at 0 was ineffective and that it also affected the CPU's FG ability. However, I thought about some OS theories in previous years about how certain sliders were backwards in some games, so I decided to test that theory this time.

What I noticed after setting it at 100 is that there were more broken tackles now. What I also like is that it didn't dumb down the CPU or human player's ability to make tackles; it doesn't turn every player into Earl Campbell; it just made the "tackling radius" smaller, meaning that the suction tackling that's visible on default was less apparent. The user now has to be smarter when tackling; you can't just go diving at players carelessly knowing that you'll get the tackle. And against the CPU, it allows more elusive players to actually utilize the jukes and stuff that were marketed with some effectiveness without them being overly powerful like they were in Madden 04.

I haven't been playing much lately, but after I started this thread, I started moving the tackling slider all over the place. I think I have it around 60 now and am seeing more realistic tackles and some broken tackles. I don't think this slider is reversed necessarily, but it is a lot different than what it was CG. I may try it at 100 and see what it looks like or keep raising till I see what I want to see. Thanks.


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Old 01-04-2014, 06:19 PM   #12
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Re: Tackling slider? Broken tackles/blockshed

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Originally Posted by OhMrHanky
I haven't been playing much lately, but after I started this thread, I started moving the tackling slider all over the place. I think I have it around 60 now and am seeing more realistic tackles and some broken tackles. I don't think this slider is reversed necessarily, but it is a lot different than what it was CG. I may try it at 100 and see what it looks like or keep raising till I see what I want to see. Thanks.


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What is better about the tackling?


Thanks
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Old 01-04-2014, 11:25 PM   #13
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Re: Tackling slider? Broken tackles/blockshed

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Originally Posted by HopiDesertPriest
What is better about the tackling?


Thanks

It feels more realistic. I've got all of my penalty sliders tweaked and I've got fumbles at 20 and run Blk at 55. I say that simply because I think all of these things factor into broken tackles. I haven't tested it yet, but I'm starting to wonder if u up run Blk to 80+ u might suddenly see mucho broken tackles. Like madden is saying, 'with run Blk so high, u should run the ball better, so here, we'll let u break some tackles too.' As I say, I haven't tested this yet, but after dropping the tackling slider down to 30, and STILL not seeing Steven Jackson stiff arm a fool into the turf, I just don't know what to think about tackling/broken tackles NG. And, I say realistic meaning the outside runs aren't killing me and most tackles that should be made are, and I actually am seeing some stiff arms and broken tackles lately. Sadly, I'm still seeing that one tackle animation where the defender runs over the offensive player. I really don't like this animation. It never feels real/right, and it's absolutely canned, so I see it over and over and over. And, this tackle comes from CBs over big RBs still. So, even though I overall like the tackling and few broken tackles I'm seeing at 64, I'm still not overjoyed by it. I definitely can't have tackling at 30 or lower, though as the outside runs were ridiculous and it still didn't seem to help with broken tackles. So, I'm still not sure where to go with this. I still haven't tried it at 100. That might be worth trying to see what difference/if any I see.


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Old 01-04-2014, 11:40 PM   #14
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Re: Tackling slider? Broken tackles/blockshed

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhMrHanky
lol, man. I appreciate the opinion, but we are definitely in disagreement on RTP. I have been waiting 20+ years for RTP!!! lol. Year after year getting these canned animations has been killing me. And, yeah, every year they seem to add a few more so the game looks a little different, a little fresher. When they introduced pro-tak in 10, I was happy with the idea and the improvement and this was sort of real time physics, or they were trying to implement real time momentum which is exactly what football needs/is. Momentum is huge/important. Sadly, EA just never executes well, and after a week of pro-tak, I had seen every animation and knew when they would be 'triggered' and how to set up the cpu for a big gain. So, I still wished for RTP. And, finally, with 13, they did it, or tried to do it, and actually, I am still amazed by that game. And, jukes happen/work, stiff arms happen (but, weren't very effective). But, what impressed me the most was after a year of playing that game, I STILL saw plays/tackles that I had NEVER seen. The most gorgeous random play I ever saw was near the release of 25. The cpu caught a screen pass, I NAILED him with the hit stick, the ball came out, my safety was already coming to help out, he dove towards the ball, did a tuck and roll while picking up the football, and ran 50 yds to paydirt. I was BLOWN AWAY!!!! You can't 'can' that animation. (well, I suppose you could), My point being, 'if' you can create a RTP engine, then ANYTHING is possible. And, 13 actually did that pretty well, and with a set of zero sliders, I loved the way that game played. Now, it needed some graphical enhancements, and touchups to gameplay, but I really dug the physics engine and was actually impressed with what ea did (well, madden had to copy from fifa, of course, but still, they did a good job and FINALLY thought outside the box by actually trying to implement physics instead of just filming a million animations and spitting them out on the field when they deem it correct.)
Sadly, for me, they took a giant step backwards with 25, and didn't build 'on top' of 13. Instead, it looks to me like they tried to combine the infinity engine with a canned animation processor, and the result was dreadful. Once again, I'm seeing the same animations over and over, and they just aren't implementing true physics in 25, imo. So, for me, I want a 100% RTP, and they can find a way to implement stiff arms and trucks that incorporate RTP and then we'd have an amazing game!
You know, really, they should probably just rip off the unreal engine like everybody else does for shooters and whatnot. I believe the unreal engine is a physics simulator engine and then programmers program their 'universe' on top of it. That's what I want, and that's what I think madden or any other football game needs to do to be 'real', to feel 'real', to play 'real.' They need to take the unreal engine and develop a 'football universe' out of it with football rules, out of bounds, etc., and add collisions (collision physics, collision detection for quality RBs to know when/where to juke), and make the football it's own object doing it's own thing, then have another collision detection system for WRs, DBs to detect that football object and go for it, then have a collision detection between the WR and DB, and BANG!!! it's Football time, baby!!! lol. Seriously, EA, if you read this, I have proposed something similar before and hope you take heed. Come out with a new system, call it CDS (Collision Detection System). Don't charge me for the name. I don't care. I just want a real football game and that is where it starts, a full on collision detection system where every player understands every other player and the ball as well. Let's do this. It's time.
I hear you, my question thou is what are we seeing now that is so much better? I actually see a sloppier game.

anyways I dont want to derail this thread. We need to make a separate thread for this. It will make for a great discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mos1ted
This is going to seem crazy, but try setting the Tackling sliders to 100. I, too, noticed that setting it at 0 was ineffective and that it also affected the CPU's FG ability. However, I thought about some OS theories in previous years about how certain sliders were backwards in some games, so I decided to test that theory this time.

What I noticed after setting it at 100 is that there were more broken tackles now. What I also like is that it didn't dumb down the CPU or human player's ability to make tackles; it doesn't turn every player into Earl Campbell; it just made the "tackling radius" smaller, meaning that the suction tackling that's visible on default was less apparent. The user now has to be smarter when tackling; you can't just go diving at players carelessly knowing that you'll get the tackle. And against the CPU, it allows more elusive players to actually utilize the jukes and stuff that were marketed with some effectiveness without them being overly powerful like they were in Madden 04.
I need to test this out also. I want the game play to feel unpredictable, and tense when a player has to make a open field tackle.
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Old 01-05-2014, 03:00 PM   #15
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Re: Tackling slider? Broken tackles/blockshed

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Originally Posted by OhMrHanky
It feels more realistic. I've got all of my penalty sliders tweaked and I've got fumbles at 20 and run Blk at 55. I say that simply because I think all of these things factor into broken tackles. I haven't tested it yet, but I'm starting to wonder if u up run Blk to 80+ u might suddenly see mucho broken tackles. Like madden is saying, 'with run Blk so high, u should run the ball better, so here, we'll let u break some tackles too.' As I say, I haven't tested this yet, but after dropping the tackling slider down to 30, and STILL not seeing Steven Jackson stiff arm a fool into the turf, I just don't know what to think about tackling/broken tackles NG. And, I say realistic meaning the outside runs aren't killing me and most tackles that should be made are, and I actually am seeing some stiff arms and broken tackles lately. Sadly, I'm still seeing that one tackle animation where the defender runs over the offensive player. I really don't like this animation. It never feels real/right, and it's absolutely canned, so I see it over and over and over. And, this tackle comes from CBs over big RBs still. So, even though I overall like the tackling and few broken tackles I'm seeing at 64, I'm still not overjoyed by it. I definitely can't have tackling at 30 or lower, though as the outside runs were ridiculous and it still didn't seem to help with broken tackles. So, I'm still not sure where to go with this. I still haven't tried it at 100. That might be worth trying to see what difference/if any I see.


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Could you please post your sliders to PSN ?


Or let us know your Cpu tackling , human run blocking, and human fumbles ?


Thanks.
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Old 01-06-2014, 06:42 PM   #16
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Re: Tackling slider? Broken tackles/blockshed

Totally buy into this theory. Set tackling to 60 and blocking to 50 and game plays much more fluid or dare I say organic. The animations where even corners would Bowl a runner bigger or a smaller not matter completely backwards and unrealistically seem to be very minimal now. Falling forward seems to be more the norm and running plays are not instantly blown up at the line....well at least not consistently.
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