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Old 09-04-2014, 07:25 PM   #25
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Re: Quinn's Sliders (Armor & Sword base set w/ tweaks)

One thing I neglected to mention. I think these sliders work BETTER at 50 thresh. Strategy and execution is what wins football games, in the NFL where everyone is a great player. In college? Sure, teams can simply win by being athletically superior, bigger, stronger, faster. That ish doesn't fly in the League tho. Strategy and execution.
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:43 PM   #26
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Re: Quinn's Sliders (Armor & Sword base set w/ tweaks)

Speed:

The problem is the user team run at the correct speed... That's not the issue, the issue is the CPU is trying to negate your speed... For instance...

My CB got a pick from Denver's back up QB... Speed at 94... Clady speed at 69... Chased me down on the sideline when we had about 20 yards of separation between us... This isn't the first time something like this has happened... Changing the speed threshold is only helpful for you when you A) play against another human or B) when you try to scramble with a QB... Outside of that vs the CPU you're just hurting yourself because regardless of the speed of the player they will get you...

Slow pace and 15 threshold
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:08 PM   #27
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Re: Quinn's Sliders (Armor & Sword base set w/ tweaks)

Let's remember too that lineman run at their top speed for a short time so there is no way lineman should chase down anyone with top end speed and especially over a long distance.
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:25 PM   #28
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Re: Quinn's Sliders (Armor & Sword base set w/ tweaks)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuck243
Speed:

The problem is the user team run at the correct speed... That's not the issue, the issue is the CPU is trying to negate your speed... For instance...

My CB got a pick from Denver's back up QB... Speed at 94... Clady speed at 69... Chased me down on the sideline when we had about 20 yards of separation between us... This isn't the first time something like this has happened... Changing the speed threshold is only helpful for you when you A) play against another human or B) when you try to scramble with a QB... Outside of that vs the CPU you're just hurting yourself because regardless of the speed of the player they will get you...

Slow pace and 15 threshold
I fully believe the game affects your players' speed based on difficulty level. I'm not sure to which degree (or how), but I have a theory...something like:

ROOKIE: Your players get a boost
PRO: Your players get no boost
ALL-PRO: CPU players get a slight boost
ALL-MADDEN: CPU players get a significant boost

I do know from playing on rookie on the MUT challenges, your players are almost ALL faster than the CPU when you use the matchup stick pre-snap.
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:56 AM   #29
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Re: Quinn's Sliders (Armor & Sword base set w/ tweaks)

I wish I could quote more than one post to be more specific, but the last few posts touched on something I am familiar with when it comes to the speed of players on the field.

Now, before I start, orion and charter both did the same test, timing players and comparing that to their actual 40-times in real life, and it showed that at 50 threshold that, that was an accurate representation of speed of the player in-game.

BUT, I do believe a few things from some experience with it. As one poster mentioned, D-linemen do seem to have a quick burst of speed at first, but then they slow down back to where they should be. No DT for example, should come that close to tackling the fastest of the players in the NFL with a shoelace dive, or straight up tackle from behind in my opinion, even though everyone is fast in the NFL.. they aren't as quick as the elite speedsters. Now, I may be having flashbacks from M25, where I saw more of this, before I found a proper threshold setting, but I did see lineman somewhat staying in the picture with players with elite speed and acceleration until I remedied that with 25 threshold.

Another poster mentioned, from his experience thus far, that at least in MUT, on different difficulty settings the speed of the user changes, then no change, and then the CPU speed picks up from All-Pro to All-Madden.

I do believe this to be true as well. So let's say, if true, at least on All-Pro the CPU has a very slight speed advantage and you do also come to notice this a bit in an actual game (such as Play Now) by the way a CPU RB runs the ball, in my opinion. On slow, they don't get to the line as fast as they do on normal, for instance. Much easier to stop, overall. While, off-topic, makes me believe the running game is a bit better on normal speed for the user and CPU (more of challenge to stop).

I believe in these examples I've brought up, and I just want to mention several player and their attributes to show how elite their speed and acceleration is, and how separation for this players SHOULD not be ignored. Whether they are running routes, or most importantly in my opinion, yards after the catch.. or even on a Jet Sweep play for example.

I've played with Tavon Austin of the Rams quite a bit, and at 35 and 25 threshold I was NOT getting ANY real believable separation on a play like the Jet Sweep with Austin, or a catch and run after a slant route. Or other examples of yards after a catch. Just MAY be in my mind, but when I dropped threshold down to 0, I noticed a slight separation. Nothing major or game-breaking on the field, but enough to be satisfied that I made a play with one of the fastest players on the field, after the catch. Another reason I chose to settle with 0 threshold was because of the deep ball on deep routes, and receivers getting separation while running their routes. It isn't that easy to complete deep balls to receivers and take into the endzone for the score. You know, dropping it their bread basket with about 2-3 yards of separation from CB, enough to allow them to make the YAC, and take it into the endzone.

Of course, this comes down to timing it just right, not too soon or too late on the throw (maybe or maybe not user-controlling the WR), but I noticed at 0 threshold, when I saw Tavon Austin lined up against a favorable DB to burn, I could hot route him to a streak and actually have a chance to have him get enough separation to drop it deep into his bread basket, then touch the defender. This DOES NOT happen often though, just know that.

Also, after playing with 0 threshold thus far, I've noticed it isn't overpowered (it really isn't too noticeable) and a defender with the proper angle on me will still make the tackle with no problem. Which I'm not entirely sure if I remember correctly, but did Dri Archer get caught from behind or was it at somewhat of angle, cutting off him off to the sideline. I do remember him getting cut off to the sideline. He is a speedster, for sure.

Not just for reference of some of these elite speed and acceleration players I'm talking about, I'll list their names and attributes. I won't list many, as really there aren't many truly ELITE speedsters, but they do exist, and I want the game to at least capture proper separation for the faster players over the slower, regardless of how fast ALL players are in the NFL. In game, there are other circumstances which I initially listed that could give the CPU a slight speed advantage, and I don't like that. I just want realism in separation, especially for the quickest and most agile athletes, when they are in open space.

So, here are some of the players I'm talking about that should be able to do wonders in open space. Tavon Austin (96 spd, 97 acc), Brandin Cooks (95 spd, 96 acc), Devin Hester (97 spd, 94 acc), Dri Archer, (98 spd, 97 acc), and then the randomly drafted CFM rookies.. you have to account for them as well, in the future. For the players just mentioned, now compare that speed and acceleration to the player ratings of D-linemen, LBs, safties, and even CBs in-game. How many come close to those numbers put up there? Not many, probably. Yeah, in real life everyone is fast in the NFL, but for some semblance of realism in-game on the field of play, we do have to work with what we're given by EA, to achieve some realism on this topic, and that in my opinion is going to have to be the player ratings.. not what we see exactly in real life, necessarily.

I love the test orion and charter performed, testing the accuracy of the 40-time of the players they used in-game, then comparing what their 40's were in real life and being nearly identical (proof positive that 50 threshold is pretty spot on), but it is my opinion that 0 threshold on All-Pro at least, needs to be considered.

It isn't game-breaking by any means, like I previously stated, but "I" feel like it is a bit more realistic and I want the players with elite speed and acceleration to account for something special, and that is their god-gifted talent for being so speedy, especially in-game. Put one of these speedy guys at punt return, and you may finally see a punt return for a TD. I know I don't remember see many, if any in M25 for me. Same can go for kickoff return if you choose to.

I guess it really doesn't matter though if you don't have any of these very fast players, but for the sake of a bit more realism, in a game still plagued with bugs and things like too many sacks, is worth considering using threshold at 0 (or 50 if you think that is the way to go) for more realism/separation for elite speed players. Then again, this also still affects all players, but I like the fact I can cut a corner with even a back, that doesn't necessarily have truly elite speed, but fast enough to make it to the corner and cut up. As long as it isn't game-breaking, and I don't think it is at 0, as I've probably said numerous times now.

Like I said though, if you use these sliders and find them satisfactory, then put threshold on 50 and voila, no problem.

I know this was long, but I was thinking hard on it.

By the way, did anyone watch Marshawn Lynch run and break some tackles tonight? Now you know why I have user and CPU tackle at 25.

Last edited by OBJ 313; 09-05-2014 at 01:36 AM.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:46 AM   #30
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Re: Quinn's Sliders (Armor & Sword base set w/ tweaks)

It is hard to say yet at this point for me because I have only tested on 0 threshold but even at 0 Talib with the Broncos made an interception and was running down the left sideline for about 50 yards and was caught by a lineman. The lineman did take the proper angle because I could see him running at the right of the screen getting closer and closer and tackled him inside the 10 yard line. That is something I can live with because the lineman did what he was supposed to do. Just the stamina and speed isn't realistic and it was one time out of several games. Even though Talib was robbed!
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:48 AM   #31
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Re: Quinn's Sliders (Armor & Sword base set w/ tweaks)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForTheQuinn94
I wish I could quote more than one post to be more specific, but the last few posts touched on something I am familiar with when it comes to the speed of players on the field.

Now, before I start, orion and charter both did the same test, timing players and comparing that to their actual 40-times in real life, and it showed that at 50 threshold that, that was an accurate representation of speed of the player in-game.

BUT, I do believe a few things from some experience with it. As one poster mentioned, D-linemen do seem to have a quick burst of speed at first, but then they slow down back to where they should be. No DT for example, should come that close to tackling the fastest of the players in the NFL with a shoelace dive, or straight up tackle from behind in my opinion, even though everyone is fast in the NFL.. they aren't as quick as the elite speedsters. Now, I may be having flashbacks from M25, where I saw more of this, before I found a proper threshold setting, but I did see lineman somewhat staying in the picture with players with elite speed and acceleration until I remedied that with 25 threshold.

Another poster mentioned, from his experience thus far, that at least in MUT, on different difficulty settings the speed of the user changes, then no change, and then the CPU speed picks up from All-Pro to All-Madden.

I do believe this to be true as well. So let's say, if true, at least on All-Pro the CPU has a very slight speed advantage and you do also come to notice this a bit in an actual game (such as Play Now) by the way a CPU RB runs the ball, in my opinion. On slow, they don't get to the line as fast as they do on normal, for instance. Much easier to stop, overall. While, off-topic, makes me believe the running game is a bit better on normal speed for the user and CPU (more of challenge to stop).

I believe in these examples I've brought up, and I just want to mention several player and their attributes to show how elite their speed and acceleration is, and how separation for this players SHOULD not be ignored. Whether they are running routes, or most importantly in my opinion, yards after the catch.. or even on a Jet Sweep play for example.

I've played with Tavon Austin of the Rams quite a bit, and at 35 and 25 threshold I was NOT getting ANY real believable separation on a play like the Jet Sweep with Austin, or a catch and run after a slant route. Or other examples of yards after a catch. Just MAY be in my mind, but when I dropped threshold down to 0, I noticed a slight separation. Nothing major or game-breaking on the field, but enough to be satisfied that I made a play with one of the fastest players on the field, after the catch. Another reason I chose to settle with 0 threshold was because of the deep ball on deep routes, and receivers getting separation while running their routes. It isn't that easy to complete deep balls to receivers and take into the endzone for the score. You know, dropping it their bread basket with about 2-3 yards of separation from CB, enough to allow them to make the YAC, and take it into the endzone.

Of course, this comes down to timing it just right, not too soon or too late on the throw (maybe or maybe not user-controlling the WR), but I noticed at 0 threshold, when I saw Tavon Austin lined up against a favorable DB to burn, I could hot route him to a streak and actually have a chance to have him get enough separation to drop it deep into his bread basket, then touch the defender. This DOES NOT happen often though, just know that.

Also, after playing with 0 threshold thus far, I've noticed it isn't overpowered (it really isn't too noticeable) and a defender with the proper angle on me will still make the tackle with no problem. Which I'm not entirely sure if I remember correctly, but did Dri Archer get caught from behind or was it at somewhat of angle, cutting off him off to the sideline. I do remember him getting cut off to the sideline. He is a speedster, for sure.

Not just for reference of some of these elite speed and acceleration players I'm talking about, I'll list their names and attributes. I won't list many, as really there aren't many truly ELITE speedsters, but they do exist, and I want the game to at least capture proper separation for the faster players over the slower, regardless of how fast ALL players are in the NFL. In game, there are other circumstances which I initially listed that could give the CPU a slight speed advantage, and I don't like that. I just want realism in separation, especially for the quickest and most agile athletes, when they are in open space.

So, here are some of the players I'm talking about that should be able to do wonders in open space. Tavon Austin (96 spd, 97 acc), Brandin Cooks (95 spd, 96 acc), Devin Hester (97 spd, 94 acc), Dri Archer, (98 spd, 97 acc), and then the randomly drafted CFM rookies.. you have to account for them as well, in the future. For the players just mentioned, now compare that speed and acceleration to the player ratings of D-linemen, LBs, safties, and even CBs in-game. How many come close to those numbers put up there? Not many, probably. Yeah, in real life everyone is fast in the NFL, but for some semblance of realism in-game on the field of play, we do have to work with what we're given by EA, to achieve some realism on this topic, and that in my opinion is going to have to be the player ratings.. not what we see exactly in real life, necessarily.

I love the test orion and charter performed, testing the accuracy of the 40-time of the players they used in-game, then comparing what their 40's were in real life and being nearly identical (proof positive that 50 threshold is pretty spot on), but it is my opinion that 0 threshold on All-Pro at least, needs to be considered.

It isn't game-breaking by any means, like I previously stated, but "I" feel like it is a bit more realistic and I want the players with elite speed and acceleration to account for something special, and that is their god-gifted talent for being so speedy, especially in-game. Put one of these speedy guys at punt return, and you may finally see a punt return for a TD. I know I don't remember see many, if any in M25 for me. Same can go for kickoff return if you choose to.

I guess it really doesn't matter though if you don't have any of these very fast players, but for the sake of a bit more realism, in a game still plagued with bugs and things like too many sacks, is worth considering using threshold at 0 (or 50 if you think that is the way to go) for more realism/separation for elite speed players. Then again, this also still affects all players, but I like the fact I can cut a corner with even a back, that doesn't necessarily have truly elite speed, but fast enough to make it to the corner and cut up. As long as it isn't game-breaking, and I don't think it is at 0, as I've probably said numerous times now.

Like I said though, if you use these sliders and find them satisfactory, then put threshold on 50 and voila, no problem.

I know this was long, but I was thinking hard on it.

By the way, did anyone watch Marshawn Lynch run and break some tackles tonight? Now you know why I have user and CPU tackle at 25.


Yeah and have every back playing in beast mode!

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Old 09-05-2014, 08:10 AM   #32
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Re: Quinn's Sliders (Armor & Sword base set w/ tweaks)

Going to stream a week one CFM game Saints (me) at Falcons (cpu).

Using Mizous's 53 man roster, no QB edits and your sliders except that I will play on slow speed.

Let's see how this play and feel on slow no QB Edits and 15 min quarters.
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