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Old 09-20-2014, 05:47 PM   #1
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Question to all slider makers about your methods?

I just have one question. Are you guys using avgs to make your slider settings?

Example lets say in the NFL the avg rush per games was 98 yards, again just a example. Then are you making your sliders based off this? Thus going through one game to the next to make sure its around that mark?

I find using averages to be very misleading.

Lets say I play with the cowboys and I see that D.Murray avg 80 yards per game in the 2013 season. Now I want that to be reflected in my game. I look at all of his games in the 2013 season and see the following.

Wk1-86 yards
wk2-25 yards*
wk3-175 yards!!!
wk4-70 yards
wk5- 43 yards*
wk6- 29 yards*
wk7- DNP
Wk8- DNP
wk9- 31 yards*
Wk10- 89 yards
wk11- Bye
wk12- 86 yards
wk13- 63 yards*
wk14- 146 yards!!!
wk15- 134 yards!!!
wk16- 96 yards !!
wk17- 48 yards*

As you can see in 14 games he avg 80 yards per game. In only 4 games he got around the 80 yard range. In three other games he went well over 80 yards, and in 6 games he was way under.

Averages are very misleading, so now if your going through this how can you ever really mimic what goes on in the NFL, when the averages don't even play out???

Here's another example.

The Carolina Panthers defense average 3.75 sacks per game. They totalled 60 sacks for the year. That's pretty much 4 per game, so they should have gotten 3 to 4 sacks per game according to the average. Well thats not the case, and its this way for every category in the sport.

Here is a game by game breakdown.
wk1- 2
wk2- 1
wk3- 7
wk4- bye
wk5- 2
wk6- 3
wk7- 4
wk8- 3
wk9- 1
wk10- 6
wk11- 2
wk12- 3
wk13- 4
wk14- 2
wk15- 4
wk16- 6
wk17- 9

Total here is 59 averaging 3.68 sacks per game. I must have missed a sack somewhere but you get the idea. 3.68 is still close to 4 per game.

Out of 16 games they only hit the average 6 times. 10 other games they were either 2 sacks or less, or 6 sacks or more.

How can you replicate the sport if you're doing sliders by the averages, when the sport doesn't reflect averages. It reflects more about matchups and game planning.

I can see a sports agent using these numbers for contract negotiations, but for us to make the proper slider set. Averages is way too misleading.

I feel this is why guys are constantly adjusting sliders for months. Trying to get that right average. When in reality its not the way to go.

One more stat. Megatron averaged 1,492 yards in 14 games in the 2013 season. He averaged 106 yards per game.
Wk1- 37*
wk2- 116
wk3- 115
wk4- 44*
wk5 DNP
wk6- 25*
wk7- 155
wk8- 329!!! Wow
wk9- bye
wk10- 83
wk11- 179!!!
wk12- 115
wk13- 101
wk14- 52*
wk15- 98
wk16- 43*
wk17- DNP

He had 5 games where he did not reach at least 55 yards for the game. He then had 2 games where he erupted. Thats half of his games where he was no where near his average.

I think the focus on making sliders should reflect the matchups the play calling on the field, and player ratings. By using averages in a way we are removing the unpredictable nature of the game.

Remember on any given Sunday anything can happen. That's the beauty of the sport. Its unpredictable.

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Old 09-20-2014, 06:00 PM   #2
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Re: Question to all slider makers about your methods?

If you are a cfm guy. You never have to compare to real numbers. You have to compare to sim stats numbers

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Old 09-20-2014, 06:49 PM   #3
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Re: Question to all slider makers about your methods?

I ignore averages completely (except with quarter length and accelerated clock to get 120-225 plays per game in.

For everything else, it's completely subjective. I look at how easy/challenging it is at various slider settings and look for patterns. If I see a string of at least 5 games with one area too easy/challenging, I make an adjustment. To me, it's all about fun.

That's not to say I don't take into account realism. If again, I'm seeing a pattern of too many or too few yards, touchdowns, first downs, etc, I will make a change.

As much as I want the stats to be sim, at the end of the day, I'm more concerned with creating an adequate challenge. I trust my instincts to let me know when something just feels off.
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Old 09-20-2014, 09:29 PM   #4
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Re: Question to all slider makers about your methods?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwaggerCoach
I ignore averages completely (except with quarter length and accelerated clock to get 120-225 plays per game in.

For everything else, it's completely subjective. I look at how easy/challenging it is at various slider settings and look for patterns. If I see a string of at least 5 games with one area too easy/challenging, I make an adjustment. To me, it's all about fun.

That's not to say I don't take into account realism. If again, I'm seeing a pattern of too many or too few yards, touchdowns, first downs, etc, I will make a change.

As much as I want the stats to be sim, at the end of the day, I'm more concerned with creating an adequate challenge. I trust my instincts to let me know when something just feels off.


Yeah for me it is a combination of stats and how it fells. I try to get has realistic results has I can so not trying to get NFL averages but more like I play has the packers so I try to get what would be realistic results for a team like them so want I mean is the packers are not the best team on d so I don't want my d to be that good and there o is pretty good so I want that to be good ect.
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Old 09-20-2014, 09:59 PM   #5
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Re: Question to all slider makers about your methods?

yes, averages, and how they should be reached through matchups. justin houston should get 12-15 sacks a year, but 5 can be in one game, as long as it's not 5 every game. I don't find averages to be misleading because they accumulate through snaps played, my number one wide out averages 75 yards a game, but in a game against richard sherman- may have one catch for 9 yards or something like that. however he will feast on lower rated corners for big games that bring up his average. the game wouldn't even allow you to construct a set of sliders that give you exactly 5 yards a carry- or 11 yards a pass play, or exactly 4 sacks a game. you have games with 6 sacks, and games with one. you want the sliders to be where strong players will beat weak ones but not dominate and destroy the game, or where you are averaging 2.8 yards a carry and you call the perfect run play, the blocks hold and you break off a home run to bump the average up to 4.5-5, but not too many homeruns because there are only so many in the NFL. so yes, I use averages and favor matchups to round out those averages.
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Old 09-20-2014, 10:17 PM   #6
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Re: Question to all slider makers about your methods?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rushinplayallgame
yes, averages, and how they should be reached through matchups. justin houston should get 12-15 sacks a year, but 5 can be in one game, as long as it's not 5 every game. I don't find averages to be misleading because they accumulate through snaps played, my number one wide out averages 75 yards a game, but in a game against richard sherman- may have one catch for 9 yards or something like that. however he will feast on lower rated corners for big games that bring up his average. the game wouldn't even allow you to construct a set of sliders that give you exactly 5 yards a carry- or 11 yards a pass play, or exactly 4 sacks a game. you have games with 6 sacks, and games with one. you want the sliders to be where strong players will beat weak ones but not dominate and destroy the game, or where you are averaging 2.8 yards a carry and you call the perfect run play, the blocks hold and you break off a home run to bump the average up to 4.5-5, but not too many homeruns because there are only so many in the NFL. so yes, I use averages and favor matchups to round out those averages.


Yes basicly that. If I am playing a good team like the Seahawks I should have a harder time moving the ball then if I am playing a bad team like tambay bay. If I am playing Denver and a great QB like peyton I should have a harder time stoping him then some bad QB. If I am having a lot of games where I cant run the ball with a good RB that is a problem. If I am going 25-30 for 350 yards ever game that is a problem. If I am going 10-30 for 150 yards that is a problem. That is what averages are for. If you are playing with a great QB most of the time you should have good to great games with a few bad games hear and there. If you are playing with a Bad QB you should only have good to great games once in a while with mostly bad games. If ever game I sack the CPU 10 times that is good but if I cant even get 1 sack a game that is not good either.
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Old 09-22-2014, 02:14 PM   #7
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Re: Question to all slider makers about your methods?

3 answers to your question:


1) I don't just use averages I also look at ranges and try to set a goal of deflections, INT, TFL, sacks, to fit within this value. Those are the stats that matter most since one big run or pass can change yardages I generally don't focus on those.


2) I look for a pattern in the games. If every game I play has sacks of 8 then there are too many sacks. One may be an outlier. Sometimes it is an outlier game and you have to switch back. However, game after game you can hone in on the generally best slider setting (in NCAA takes about 20-30 games).


3) This isn't real life. All sports games NBA 2k or Madden that I have tested are computer algorithms and as a result are very predictable. In fact I have complained before that this is one of the major flaws in the game experience for these games. I think it would be great to have a behind the scenes variability effect. Say at the beginning of the game the computer generates a random roll and your team gets a bonus or penalty compared to the other team. This would simulate having a bad day or a great day.
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Old 09-22-2014, 03:51 PM   #8
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Re: Question to all slider makers about your methods?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwaggerCoach
I ignore averages completely (except with quarter length and accelerated clock to get 120-225 plays per game in.

For everything else, it's completely subjective. I look at how easy/challenging it is at various slider settings and look for patterns. If I see a string of at least 5 games with one area too easy/challenging, I make an adjustment. To me, it's all about fun.

That's not to say I don't take into account realism. If again, I'm seeing a pattern of too many or too few yards, touchdowns, first downs, etc, I will make a change.

As much as I want the stats to be sim, at the end of the day, I'm more concerned with creating an adequate challenge. I trust my instincts to let me know when something just feels off.
Nice thats pretty much the same approach I use.

I evaluate every area of the game. Example The line play. I'll say well the QB has way to much time here on a large amount of plays. Then ill see how much time they have on a 3 man rush , than a 4 man rush , then the blitz and adjust according to that.

I also strive for my game to be as unpredictable as possible. I want those wow moments on both defense and offense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkknightrises
Yeah for me it is a combination of stats and how it fells. I try to get has realistic results has I can so not trying to get NFL averages but more like I play has the packers so I try to get what would be realistic results for a team like them so want I mean is the packers are not the best team on d so I don't want my d to be that good and there o is pretty good so I want that to be good ect.
Yea seems like we are all on the same page here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oraeon1224
3 answers to your question:


1) I don't just use averages I also look at ranges and try to set a goal of deflections, INT, TFL, sacks, to fit within this value. Those are the stats that matter most since one big run or pass can change yardages I generally don't focus on those.


2) I look for a pattern in the games. If every game I play has sacks of 8 then there are too many sacks. One may be an outlier. Sometimes it is an outlier game and you have to switch back. However, game after game you can hone in on the generally best slider setting (in NCAA takes about 20-30 games).


3) This isn't real life. All sports games NBA 2k or Madden that I have tested are computer algorithms and as a result are very predictable. In fact I have complained before that this is one of the major flaws in the game experience for these games. I think it would be great to have a behind the scenes variability effect. Say at the beginning of the game the computer generates a random roll and your team gets a bonus or penalty compared to the other team. This would simulate having a bad day or a great day.
Yes you are right at the end of the day these are video games and at one point we really neeed to understand what the game offers as a whole.

The game is program to do but so much, so we need to reconize the limits of the game, and accept it for what it is, and not kill ourselves with constantly adjusting the game.

One thing we really need to reconize and really messes with the game. Is the play calling on the CPU part. If we want to make things more challenging and fair in the game, dont constantly make so many changes at the line. Unfortunately the CPU picks its play and then goes with it, not really muhc adjusting from there end. Since this is how it goes we can really exploit it and scew the numbers.

I tend to only do one hot route per play and I never flip my running play. This way I still have a chest match with the CPU by tring to outsmart them from the huddle when im picking my play. Just a little something I do since I know the cpu has its limits
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