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GroundNPound All Pro + Slow/Very Slow CFM Sliders

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Old 09-30-2014, 01:33 AM   #1
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GroundNPound All Pro + Slow/Very Slow CFM Sliders

Hi all. I have been a lurker for 4 years here and signed up last year but never posted. I have been playing Madden since v9 and have always been fascinated with tweaking sliders. To that end I have tried many slider sets over the years and used and tested many ideas presented here. If you have posted a slider set here I have likely tried it (Although hard to keep up this year) I guess this is a good time to thank everyone for all their contributions here. They have certainly enhanced my Madden experience over the years. I thought it was time to finally try to contribute something here. I know a patch will be coming along some time but I still wanted to share these.

Background: I never play online so have no idea how good my user skills are. I play almost exclusively offline franchise and in previous years would typically play on a slider modified All-Madden. I am not that techy ( I cannot even figure out how to post box scores here and thus will be manually typing them) but I do have a background in stats and thus some perspective on how to decipher the complex multivariate model that is Madden. I think a lot of people overlook the fact that you cannot look at variables (individual sliders) in isolation but must test changes in combination with changes to other sliders. I am posting my slider set below not as a cure for all the ills that plague Madden but as another stepping stone for people to tweak Madden to get the best experience out of it.

Goals:

1) I am an old school (Love Defense) guy. 17-14 games are much more exciting to me than 49-35 games. I wanted to develop a set of sliders that emphasized defense and in a realistic way.

2) Play competitively on slow or slower game speeds. This is a matter of preference of course but I like emphasize the graphics elements and to see plays unfold and see how my blockers and pass rushers are doing. The problem with slower speeds is that they make the game easier (particularly user passing) as they give the user more time to make reads, avoid sacks, throw the ball away if necessary etc. I wanted to be able to play at slower speeds yet still struggle some times in the passing game.

3) Have ratings matter. Players with certain limitations should have those limitations exposed during the game. Good players should outperform bad players.

4) Reduce CPU accuracy without having insane amounts of user sacks and without resulting in the elimination of down-field throws. We all know that the tendency for CPU QBs to take sacks this year is insane. I have seen suggested solutions about editing QB traits but this makes me uncomfortable. I don’t want all my QBs behaving in exactly the same way

5) Get realistic Game stats. I am not really a pure sim guy but I like my box-scores to be realistic: 115 to 135 plays from LoS, Mediocre QBs should pass at around 55% to 65%, stud QBs at 65% to 75%, RBs at 3.5 – 5 YPC, Realistic RB rotations etc

Testing Methods and Limitations: In developing/Tweaking these sliders I played over 40 24-minute halves and over 10 Full games in “Play Now Mode”. I chose to test in Play Now mode because Franchise mode brings in too many external factors such as confidence and built in seasonal story lines. In order to avoid inconsistencies in testing, I tested ONLY as the Bills hosting the Dolphins. I chose these teams because they are relatively even matched “average teams” (Miami was 81 Team OVR and Buf 77) and in real life the spread was “even” (Even though Buf won big in real life this year in part because Tannehill has been so disappointing). I would expect to win 50%-60% of these match ups.

The limitations of course is that just in real life you might well get very different results testing with different teams and QBs. Once my tweaking was done, I played two further games in Play Now Mode and have now completed a further 5 games in franchise mode. I am including the box scores for those games here.

Since team and player ratings matter I will touch on them here. My franchise mode is year 3 Raiders. It is an 87 OVR team. The 5 opponents had team OVRs ranging from 83-86. Of note I have an 88 OVR 2nd year Mobile QB who has a DAC of only 65. The rest of my team is young and talented but many have not yet reached targeted levels of awareness yet (I usually want my starters to have at least 75% to 80% awareness. I roll with a customised 46 PB so I would expect a fair number of sacks and a I use a Customized Power Run control the clock off PB ---- I did mention I was old school right?

Finally I would like to mention that all my testing has been done on an X-box 360. While I am aware of the significant differences in the two versions I am unconvinced that fundamental game play and slider adjustments vary significantly between the two. I doubt that anyone has done a side by side comparison over enough games to draw meaningful conclusions, but if anyone has I would be very interested in your feedback. I have, upon finalizing my sliders, e-mailed a set to a friend who plays on NextGen and he is absolutely in love with them.

Credit/Inspiration etc.: There have been a lot of great sliders over the years. Because I like the lower speed animations I have always respected Armor&Swords sliders. IMHO they set the benchmark for graphical realism and visual enjoyment of the game. Unfortunately I have also had a “love-hate” relationship with them because they usually (for me) resulted in games that were either too easy or too high scoring (no how much I resisted lead passing and user catching).

Recently I encountered some sliders from schnaidt1 that I consider to be the best sliders I have found to date for the way I like to play the game. For those that have not tried them, I would highly recommend doing so. I was quite skeptical at first as he uses “Pro” level rather than “All Pro” but the way he has set them up, you get outstanding and challenging game play. My only frustration with his sliders is that the User sack issue remains and I feel that even though his sliders are quite challenging, the CPU at “Pro” tends to dumb itself down in 4th quarter to give you a better chance a winning. I played only 6 games with his sliders but in every game I won --- after a 3 quarter dogfight, the CPU would seem to allow me (via poor CPU play calling) to come back and win. That said, had I not tried developing my own, I would most likely be using his as the game-play is excellent (less the sacks issue).

Findings: Obviously the best way to find out if my approach works for you is to plug them in and see how you like them. I have also included Multiple Box Scores in the table so that you can look at stats realism. That said, I think it is worthwhile to highlight some key findings here.

1) Don’t be afraid of the slower game speeds. They can still be challenging and the visual effects are worth it. Slow with an accelerated CPU Pass Rush actually plays fairly close to normal. Very Slow plays very close to default slow but you might want to drop user PB a bit to make sure you ae not abusing user passing.

2) CPU QBs WILL go down-field but I found I had to keep CPU QB ACC at above 10

3) I have sat the fence on the issue of whether the Pass Coverage slider is inverted or not. I am now 100% convinced it is NOT --- although I do get weird results at times when I set it at higher than 95%. I think the major issue with Pass Coverage is that it needs set in conjunction with other pass DEF variables like reaction time. To that end see points 4 and 5 below.

4) I have seen recent posts suggesting that reaction time needs to be set very low. I think this will not work for playing on slower speeds. You need DBs reacting quickly to slow down the passing attack. The Key is to not set it too high. With PC at 95 I was getting the best results with PR set in the 50-75 range and ultimately wound up going with the higher end of that range. At PR over 75 I actually found coverage worsened because DBs would play “looser” so as not to get burned and then would try to make up for it with superhuman leaps and dives.

5) Perhaps the most important finding in my view was that of interceptions. I sense a lot of people believe that a higher interception slider simply results in more DB catches rather than dropped potential pics. This is absolutely not the case in fact I think WR catching has more impact here as I believe it impacts more than just WRs. A higher Interception slider causes your DBs (and coverage LBs) to play smarter and more aggressive. They will be more likely to either tighten their coverage or play “off” the WR and jump the lane to attempt the pick. DB with high awareness and play recognition will absolutely disrupt the passing game. Try going Deep with a QB with only 65 DAC and you will often find your WR streaking past the DB on the sideline only for your QB to underthrow it for an easy pick. Try throwing a Deep Out against a corner with high awareness and play recognition then you better be careful because he might just surprise you by jumping the lane for a pick 6. Watchout for LBs in coverage too, because they also benefit a lot from this slider. It adds a new dimension to the Passing game. Know your own personnel and your opponents.

6) Optimize Defensive Pursuit as much as possible. Madden loves highlight reel plays too much – probably because they excite casual players. One way it gets big plays is by insane WR blocking and CPU tacklers taking bad angles. Lowering RTK penalty and Raising PCI Penalty helps improve pursuit on both sides greatly and moving up clipping a bit decreases the downfield blocking a bit.

7) Intentional Grounding is another confusing Penalty. I have seen some who believe that a lower slider here will result in more attempts to just throw the ball away without fear of penalty being called, but the opposite is true. The QB will hold on to the ball longer in hopes of making a play. At higher settings the QB is more pressure sensitive and likely to either scramble or attempt a pass (meaning more opportunities for IG to be called). Thus a higher setting is preferred. Too high is bad though because it makes your QB dumber and panicky meaning he will never look downfield (Hence he Dink and Dunk approach so many have complained about here.

That is all for now -- sliders and box scores follow


Last edited by GroundNPound; 09-30-2014 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 09-30-2014, 01:34 AM   #2
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Re: GroundNPound All Pro + Slow/Very Slow CFM Sliders

Level
All Pro


Qtr Length/Clock
12 min Qtr length clock @25 sec

Depends on how you play but I consistently get 115-130 plays from scrimmage here. I like t have time to make reads and adjustments at LoS.
Speed
Very Slow or Slow

Because of other settings “Slow” with my Sliders actually plays fairly close to Normal and “Very Slow” plays as slow. I love playing “VS” because the animations are incredible and I can see and appreciate what my blockers and pass rushers are doing.


Play Calling
Gameflow

Optional
Play Options
on/on/on/on/on

Optional although I would advise Heat seeker to avoid unrealistic YAC R-YAC
Threshold
35

Seems to be the sweet spot in realistically differentiating players. Raise if too many big plays.
Injuries
50

I get one to two injuries per game typically 3-5 weeks each.
Fatigue
75

All credit to Schnaidt1 here. This works perfectly with default auto-subs and gives a great RB rotation.




HUM/CPU







qb acc:
6
11
Some CPU Dink and Dunk but better QBs WILL go down-field often enough.
pass blocking:
34
99
Reduce sacks on CPU QB while enhancing CPU pass rush is needed if playing at “Slow” or “Very Slow”
wr catching:
35
40
Along with QB accuracy and PB helps make CPU completion % reasonable
run blocking:
15
60
Tone down user running and help CPU a bit
Fumbles:
35
65
Not a lot at either setting. Lower user setting shows more RB moves. Too low will result in too many QB sack fumbles
Reaction time:
75
70
Help PD but too high reduces WR intelligence and cause unrealistic “Superman” DB plays.
interceptions:
80
65
Most important slider tweak . Interceptions is NOT only about catching the ball. It helps make CPU coverage more aggressive and deceptive and works very well with a high PC setting. Not too many CPU QB Picks here. Users will DEFINITELY get picked if forcing throws or going deep with a low DAC QB. Makes the passing game challenging, especially on slower game speeds. Raise CPU higher if your passing is too easy.
Pass coverage:
95
95
Have sat on the fence for two years on the issue as to whether these are inverted. After extensive testing I have concluded they are not. I DO believe a high INT setting is required to make the coverage less passive. Also I get weird results at anything over 95 so I think going too extreme on the scale may confuse things.
tackling:
50
70
Encourage better CPU defense and fewer “highlight reel” broken tackle plays. Keep USER as is because higher tackling with low false start gives too many Tackles for Loss




Special teams







FG power:
45
45

FG Accuracy:
45
45
Make FGs more challenging
Punt power:
55
55

Punt Accuracy:
55
55
Poorer field positon slows down scoring a bit and allows for battles for field position.
kick-off power:
50
50
Ok as is




PENALTIES



Offside:
5

Restrain Pass Rush
False Start:
5

Restrain Blocking – Pass & Run
Holding:
55

Increase duration of blocking = Better pass protection but too high causes to many penalties and diminishes variation between Good and bad OL
Facemask:
5

Decreases big hits and triggers better tackling animations. Rewards those with high Power hit ratings
DPI:
25

Improves aggressiveness of pass coverage – but if too low will result in too much gambling and big pass plays
OPI:
50

Leave as is. Too low = sloppy routes (and more sacks resulting) too high = Little variance between receivers they all release quickly and run perfect routes)
PUNT CATCH interference:
75

Improves Pursuit and Tackling but if too high results in bad reads and big plays resulting.
Clipping:
55

Reduces big plays due to insane downfield blocking but if too high will result in a call on EVERY return play and many big plays.
int grounding:
75

QB more likely to throw the ball away – but if too high makes every QB act the same
roughing the passer:
25

Actually helps produce better more aggressive pass rush. Was tempted to make this higher but felt it killed the CPU pass rush too much .Lower helps he CPU get after your QB which is needed when playing on slow speed. The one penalty slider worth playing around with more if sacks are still an issue.
roughing the kicker:
25

Weird slider but lowering it seems to help Pursuit in all phases of the game – resulting in fewer broken big plays.







Last edited by GroundNPound; 09-30-2014 at 02:21 AM.
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Old 09-30-2014, 01:34 AM   #3
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Re: GroundNPound All Pro + Slow/Very Slow CFM Sliders

OK I have posted below the first 7 Box Scores with these sliders (I played as Bills and Raiders). Here are scores and opposing QB Stats. See Boxscores below for more detail.

Bills Beat Dolphins 28-24: Tannehill 22-29-204-79%-0-1 Sacked 5 times
Dolphins Beat Bills 24-16: Tannehill 14-21-199-66%-1-0 Sacked 3 times
Raiders Beat Bucs 34-7: Glennon 21-32-203-66%1-2 Sacked 3 Times
Colts Beat Raiders 31-24: Luck 18-31-357-58%-2-0 Sacked 4 times
Raiders beat Jags 31-10: R Wlson 09-18-126-50%-0-0 Sacked 6 Times
Raiders beat SD 17-10: Rivers 22-34-240-64%-1-0 Sacked 6 Times
Chiefs Beat Raiders 20-17 C Daniel 22-28-225-78%-1-0 Sacked 3 Times

Through 7 Games:

Average Pass Yds against: 222
Average Pass Pct Against:66%
Ave # of Sacks: 4.28

Sacks are still too high to satisfy purists but IMHO represent a serious improvement. Keep in mind I am rolling with a 46 defense and would expect more sacks than average. I would be curious if someone tried these using a more conservative Cover 2 DEF.

Last edited by GroundNPound; 09-30-2014 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 09-30-2014, 01:37 AM   #4
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Re: GroundNPound All Pro + Slow/Very Slow CFM Sliders

Man and people have picked on me for not having paragraphs lol
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Old 09-30-2014, 01:48 AM   #5
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Re: GroundNPound All Pro + Slow/Very Slow CFM Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkknightrises
Man and people have picked on me for not having paragraphs lol
lol first long post and typed in word and pasted here. not what i intended. will try to figure out how to fix it uggghh
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Old 09-30-2014, 02:01 AM   #6
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Re: GroundNPound All Pro + Slow/Very Slow CFM Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundNPound
lol first long post and typed in word and pasted here. not what i intended. will try to figure out how to fix it uggghh


Oh ok yeah I wanted to read it but so much lol.
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Old 09-30-2014, 02:15 AM   #7
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Re: GroundNPound All Pro + Slow/Very Slow CFM Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkknightrises
Oh ok yeah I wanted to read it but so much lol.
Yea -- it is sort of the "War and Peace of Sliders" but I have seen some pretty long slider posts here.
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Old 09-30-2014, 02:20 AM   #8
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Re: GroundNPound All Pro + Slow/Very Slow CFM Sliders

WOW you have pass coverage and reaction high. It has got to be like imposable to pass the ball with pass coverage and reaction so high and with WR so low and QB so low. I find even on like 20 QB that guys make way to many passes off the mark.
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