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Defensive visuals effecting CPU gameplay???

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Old 10-08-2014, 01:42 PM   #33
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Re: Defensive visuals effecting CPU gameplay???

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Originally Posted by CowherPower
My playing style?...simple....I try my hardest to simulate what you see on Sunday's...simple as that.

I ONLY play as a LB and do not switch during any time during the play,I let the cpu call my defense,as I like to think it's LeBeau sending in the play.

Playing as the Steelers,I blitz alot,but 9/10 times it's not me who actually gets the sack,it's my cpu teammates...the issue is the cpu QB's are brain dead once pressure gets to them.

Oh sure I could sit back in coverage,but what would that do? as I mentioned it's more my cpu controlled teammates.

I don't mind getting sacked by the cpu,and it's not an issue because I am controlling the QB,so I have the option to scramble,get sacked or throw the ball away,sadly the cpu does not exhibit these traits.



Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeuatiful. Exactly the input I needed! I also tend to let MADDEN select the "D" giving me that feeling that my D-Coord has the game plan in hand. I do however break from script on "big downs" and dial up some heat or give up the underneath play, or bring up my safeties to STUFF THE DAMN RUN.


Thanks a million, you have no idea how much that helps my approach to sliders. Will stay in touch as my project crawls forward.
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Old 10-08-2014, 02:46 PM   #34
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Re: Defensive visuals effecting CPU gameplay???

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Originally Posted by JoshC1977
Just curious, what defensive camera angle were you using in that game?
On those games I tested last night I was using the defensive camera angle which shows the game from the defenders perspective - looking at the QB (sorry not sure of the official description).

So today I played a couple of games with the camera in "classic" Madden view i.e wide coverage of the field from the QB perspective.

It was even worse. I sacked Rivers 6 times...in one half. And that was even after I had gone in and edited my entire Bronco starting front 7 to make them slower and less agile than usual.

I really don't see how defensive visuals can affect the pathetic QB AI in this year's Madden.
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Old 10-08-2014, 05:23 PM   #35
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Re: Defensive visuals effecting CPU gameplay???

Quote:
Originally Posted by British Bronco
On those games I tested last night I was using the defensive camera angle which shows the game from the defenders perspective - looking at the QB (sorry not sure of the official description).

So today I played a couple of games with the camera in "classic" Madden view i.e wide coverage of the field from the QB perspective.

It was even worse. I sacked Rivers 6 times...in one half. And that was even after I had gone in and edited my entire Bronco starting front 7 to make them slower and less agile than usual.

I really don't see how defensive visuals can affect the pathetic QB AI in this year's Madden.

That's because it doesn't. Placebo my friend. P.L.A.C.E.B.O.
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Old 10-08-2014, 11:18 PM   #36
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Re: Defensive visuals effecting CPU gameplay???

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Originally Posted by kchuskey
That's because it doesn't. Placebo my friend. P.L.A.C.E.B.O.
The problem is correlation vs causation. There are actually some combinations of OLs/QBs that do generally better than others against sacks. The problem is, they are not necessarily the ones we would expect, based on overall ratings or knowledge of real football. So . . . we make a change, see an average quarterback or two take a realistic number of sacks, and think we have solved the problem. Unfortunately, the setting that may allow the third string QB on the Titans to 14/24 with only 1 sack in 80 offensive plays, will, for reasons unknown to humans or (apparently) the Madden programming crew, cause Peyton Manning to complete 95% of his passes while taking 18 sacks.

I am being slightly hyperbolic for effect, but you get the point.

Last edited by NimitsTexan; 10-09-2014 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:41 AM   #37
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Re: Defensive visuals effecting CPU gameplay???

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Originally Posted by NimitsTexan
The problem is correlation vs causation. There are actually some combinations of OLs/QBs that do generally better than others against sacks. The problem is, they are not necessarily the ones we would expect, based on overall ratings or knowledge of real football. So . . . we make a change, see an average quarterback or two take a realistic number of sacks, and think we have solved the problem. Unfortunately, that setting that my allow the third string QB on the Titans to 14/24 with only 1 sack in 80 offensive plays, will, for reasons unknown to humans or (apparently) the Madden programming crew, cause Payton Manning to complete 95% of his passes while taking 18 sacks.

I am being slightly hyperbolic for effect, but you get the point.
Sadly that's probably not that big of an exaggeration!
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Old 10-09-2014, 12:23 PM   #38
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Re: Defensive visuals effecting CPU gameplay???

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Originally Posted by NimitsTexan
The problem is correlation vs causation. There are actually some combinations of OLs/QBs that do generally better than others against sacks. The problem is, they are not necessarily the ones we would expect, based on overall ratings or knowledge of real football. So . . . we make a change, see an average quarterback or two take a realistic number of sacks, and think we have solved the problem. Unfortunately, that setting that my allow the third string QB on the Titans to 14/24 with only 1 sack in 80 offensive plays, will, for reasons unknown to humans or (apparently) the Madden programming crew, cause Payton Manning to complete 95% of his passes while taking 18 sacks.

I am being slightly hyperbolic for effect, but you get the point.

Bingo! Finally some insight flowing through the OS board rather than knee-jerk "band-aid" slider suggestions.


Look folks, the formula is S-I-M-P-L-E. You need to start with a solid roster that highlights the areas of strength/weakness of the individual players, specifically the stars. Certain player attributes need to be "watered" down in general (ie. awareness, speed, agility, accel, play recog, etc.). Will there ever be a PERFECT roster? Sadly, no. But with some time investment, you can certainly create a better roster.


After that is achieved, then you tune the base setting to make up for lingering deficiencies that the game may be displaying (ie. sacks on steroids against the CPU inside the Users Red Zone).


Personally, my lab tests offensive players that I personally tune against defensive players that are also personally tuned. This way, at least I have a fighting chance that the Madden AI will better mirror what I see through my 70" flatty on Monday's, Thursday's and Sunday's.


As I have shared with gurus like Jarrod21, presently I am obsessed with REAC times in the following areas:

OL-DL "sticky" time (the time it takes for the OL to hold a block/DL time it takes to shed a block) on runs and passes

DB-WR "mirror" time (the time it takes for the DB to react to the WR's route) on slants, curls, drags, etc.

Zone "pickup" time (the reaction of a LB/DB to a receiver when receiver enters their zone and the "stickiness" of the LB/DB to the receiver while the receiver is in the zone) on drags, curls, fly's. On slants, I try to achieve a setting that doesn't "check/hold" too long when the receiver happens to "bump" into the defensive player in zone


I may have different expectations than most regarding what I want my sliders to achieve. Traditionally, my focus is on making sure that AI interactions behave closer to those of the real Shield. Scores and stats are secondary concerns. M15, in my very humble opinion, is better in AI interactions than recent iterations from EA. The challenge, like always, is that Donny is much too generous with the attributes.

In the end, the trick with sliders is to avoid having the sliders take over and dictate the actions and reactions of the AI. Unfortunately, sometimes my fellow OS Maddenites lack the football knowledge to properly play football (ie. don't realize that throwing bombs to your WR down the sideline on Cover 2 is passing to the strength of the Cover 2 scheme, instead, exploit it down the middle) and expect sliders to make up for their strategy deficiencies. I published a slider thread a few season's back, and my biggest pet peeve was the utter lack of basic football strategy knowledge demonstrated by the community, and yet would expect slider tuning to make up for their lack of knowledge.


I am eager to see SECLite's and Mizzou24's roster work. The lab probably will not get into full gear until I have a complete roster from which to work from.
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