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Old 10-13-2014, 12:20 AM   #65
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Re: Reaction Time & Pass Cover Focus Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Taffer
Reading the past few posts, it seems like the Sliders are similar to overclocking a CPU. Go too high, or too low, and it's unstable as hell. So trying to find that right sweet spot can be pretty daunting.

I'm also wondering if any of the Sliders affect the QB Playbook. 95% of the time, the CPU just runs short Drag,Crossing route. Curl Flats, or screens, and inside zone runs. There's barely anything else. And if they actually do call a deep route play, the QB always checks down to the RB right away.
My data does not support this observation. Yes, their is a lot of "short yardage" plays being chosen regularly, in fact a tad above the NFL average, BUT, in games that I have tracked IT IS NOT UNCOMMON to see the CPU QB exploit my man-to-man coverage when it sees fit.

My data supports that UNTIL you find the balance between the CPU PASS REAC/COV sliders, yes, you will see a lot of Alex Smith...

However, once you start finding balance between the CPU/QB ACC, CPU/QB PASS BLK, CPU/QB PASS COV/REAC, and to a limited degree TAK and WR CTCH and then dial in the INT GRND slider, the game is quite fun. Personally in my lab, tuning the ALL-PRO level has been an easier endeavor than All-MADDEN...
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Old 10-13-2014, 12:30 AM   #66
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Re: Reaction Time & Pass Cover Focus Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingWiz
My data does not support this observation. Yes, their is a lot of "short yardage" plays being chosen regularly, in fact a tad above the NFL average, BUT, in games that I have tracked IT IS NOT UNCOMMON to see the CPU QB exploit my man-to-man coverage when it sees fit.

My data supports that UNTIL you find the balance between the CPU PASS REAC/COV sliders, yes, you will see a lot of Alex Smith...

However, once you start finding balance between the CPU/QB ACC, CPU/QB PASS BLK, CPU/QB PASS COV/REAC, and to a limited degree TAK and WR CTCH and then dial in the INT GRND slider, the game is quite fun. Personally in my lab, tuning the ALL-PRO level has been an easier endeavor than All-MADDEN...

For the love of all that it's holy please stop calling it "your lab" we all have the same game an test the same way in cfm...lol just makes u seem like a pretencious douche which i know ur not...
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Old 10-13-2014, 12:35 AM   #67
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Re: Reaction Time & Pass Cover Focus Thread

I have tested these fairly well:


Pass coverage: The lower the setting the more the likely the defender will blow their coverage and leave the WR open. This appears to provide a boost to the WR route running when it is calculated against the CB Man or zone coverage rating (very obvious with man coverage in testing). If set high the defenders stay closer to the WR and the game looks more like the NFL.


Pass reaction: There is a visible closure difference between players and the ball while it is in the air...maybe. While I could see a decrease in sacks with Pass coverage lower (open recievers) I couldn't really tell a difference with this one. Subjectively lower appears to increase closer but not route coverage. However, I am not convinced I am right. EA really needs to clarify what sliders actually do.


What does this mean:
Ideally high pass coverage and low pass reaction will give you an NFL Sunday game...not really. If you watch the NFL carefully you will see numerous blown coverages. The game actually looks fairly good at default setting. Unfortunately that doesn't mean the game plays well.


Try setting the game with Pass coverage to 100. You will see the CPU QB having an increased number of sacks or short dumpoff plays. You will not see any big plays downfield. The completion percentage may or may not change depending on if he gets passes off before a sack. You will also find the AI cannot seem to score in the redzone except on runs.


Now set the game with Pass coverage to 0 and you will see the CPU QB taking shots downfield and taking less sacks (in testing about 4 sacks less out of 40 snaps). The AI will actually score passing touchdowns. However, it will not look as authentic.


Conclusion: You can't win it either looks better but the stats are not as realistic or it looks worse but can get slightly better stats. I prefer seeing Payton Manning throw for 300 yards with several great deep balls and make TD completions. I prefer to have default pass coverage against myself and have the player setting to a low value (at even 30 I rarely see good down field passing by the CPU on AllPro). I then set QB ACC to a very low value and increase WR drops so CPU completion percentage is accurate. Nothing is perfect just arrange it to whatever makes you happy.


Now if EA will work harder on the sack issue it will be a fairly decent game.
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Old 10-13-2014, 02:26 AM   #68
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Re: Reaction Time & Pass Cover Focus Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingWiz
Let me see if the Wiz can help you boys out a bit.... My data supports the following:

To address the HUM QB cheesing it on drag routes, quick slants, basically junk underneath (I am talking to you Alex Smith, King of Dink and Dunk!), the PASS COV/REAC sliders need to be LOWER

To address ROBO QB, the PASS COV/REAC for HUM sliders needs to be LOWER...

To get realistic YAC after the catch the PASS COV/REAC for CPU/HUM sliders needs to be LOWER...


And yes, GOING BELOW 25, or above 75, mucks up the whole game....


Insight into how to attack the CPU/HUM PASS COV/REAC sliders:

1) Test sliders with STUD QB's (I use Brady, Rodgers, Manning)

2) Get a notepad.

3) Set the skill level to ALL-PRO (ALL - MADDEN has glitches that I don't want to get into now)

4) Play 3 complete CFM games everything default, except INT GRND (0), CPU AB ACC (6), HUM QB ACC (7), FUM (8), PASS BLK CPU (80), PASS BLK HUM (50), WR CTCH (46)

5) WORK ONLY on PASSING... YOU ARE TESTING, WHO CARES if you lose the games, WHO CARES if you throw a few picks, you are OBSERVING and taking notes on what routes are being completed by CPU, how easy they are being completed, time your pocket stays intact, completion percentages, how easy/hard is it for you to dump the ball off, how easy/hard it is to throw a screen pass from under center/pistol/shotgun, measuring YAC, observing how quickly a LB jumps into a passing lane, observing how instinctive the DB's are on jumping routes (yes you are going to have to do a TON of replay and watch foot plants, hip swivels and cuts in slow motion, sorry)...

6) What your data should bear out is the following PATTERN. The CPU QB's completion PCT will skew high, and the CPU will typically find it easy to find the underneath pass, and most IMPORTANTLY, the CPU's YAC will skew above the NFL average. For average, to above average MaddenHeads, the HUM throwing numbers will be SLIGHTLY BELOW or EQUAL to the CPU's number's if YOU ARE NOT CHEESING IT...

7) Now... take the sliders for both HUM & CPU PASS COV/REAC to 99
and re-take the above test. ROBO-QB should be in full effect, and the YAC numbers for both HUM and CPU should be WELL ABOVE NFL AVG.

8) Now... take the sliders for both HUM & CPU PASS COV/REAC to 1 and re-take the above test. ROBO-QB turns into Geno Smith, the HUM D is NO LONGER giving up stupid YAC (ditto for the CPU to your YAC) and underneath cheese is no longer a "plus" option for either the CPU or HUM when playing underneath zone defenses. Man to man coverage is tight and your passing windows just got puny. Interceptions from LB's will skew higher, and interceptions from DB's jumping the route, will skew up as well. Completion percentages drop signigicatnly where you should be able to see a difference between "1" and "99"...

Is playing against a "hyper-active" defense realistic? No. But now you can start moving the CPU/HUM PASS REAC/COV sliders UP in increments of 5 clicks to figure out what level of "hyper-activeness" is your cup of tea....

Also, you will find that the running game on the edges got a whole hell of a lot more realistic when the CPU/HUM PASS REAC/COV sliders are lower, rather than higher.

Conclusion: It would seem that the HUM/CPU PASS/COV sliders work in reverse! Only conclusion you can draw when you see your YAC numbers precipitously drop when the HUM/CPU PASS/COV sliders are lower as well as completion percentages, not to mention a much better mix of poor throws from the CPU QB when he "senses" pressure.




Wiz out.
Hurry up and upload your sliders !!
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Old 10-13-2014, 02:50 AM   #69
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Re: Reaction Time & Pass Cover Focus Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDogz85
Hurry up and upload your sliders !!


I think he is thinking to much. I don't think pass coverage is backwards at all and I have heard a million different things on how people think the sliders work in the game. If you have pass coverage at 99 like he said compared to having it at say 1 I think at 99 it is going to be really hard to complete passes.
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Old 10-13-2014, 07:57 AM   #70
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Re: Reaction Time & Pass Cover Focus Thread

It might be good for the Human to have good pass coverage against (99) but not for the CPU which takes too many sacks and already has trouble with downfield passing. Robo QB is about too few incomplete passes and throws out of bounds. Just wanted to point out the following:


NFL GAME STATS AVG from insider and ESPN:


ATT: 35
Comp: 21
Incomp: 14
INT: 1
DEFL: 4
Drops: 4


Errant throws = 14-1-4-4 = 5


That means on average an NFL quarterback throws 5 errant passes a game. If you consider variation this is probable 3-7 per game. The problem currently with using pass coverage to effect robo quarterback is that you increase DEFL to try to adjust this. The downside is that you lead to more sacks and short throws. QB ACC decreases % and can get you closer to the 5 missed passes. Of course if the QB left the pocket and threw away the ball 3 times a game that would also fix both the sack issues and the errant throw issue.
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Old 10-13-2014, 08:38 AM   #71
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Re: Reaction Time & Pass Cover Focus Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oraeon1224
I have tested these fairly well:


Pass coverage: The lower the setting the more the likely the defender will blow their coverage and leave the WR open. This appears to provide a boost to the WR route running when it is calculated against the CB Man or zone coverage rating (very obvious with man coverage in testing). If set high the defenders stay closer to the WR and the game looks more like the NFL.


Pass reaction: There is a visible closure difference between players and the ball while it is in the air...maybe. While I could see a decrease in sacks with Pass coverage lower (open recievers) I couldn't really tell a difference with this one. Subjectively lower appears to increase closer but not route coverage. However, I am not convinced I am right. EA really needs to clarify what sliders actually do.


What does this mean:
Ideally high pass coverage and low pass reaction will give you an NFL Sunday game...not really. If you watch the NFL carefully you will see numerous blown coverages. The game actually looks fairly good at default setting. Unfortunately that doesn't mean the game plays well.


Try setting the game with Pass coverage to 100. You will see the CPU QB having an increased number of sacks or short dumpoff plays. You will not see any big plays downfield. The completion percentage may or may not change depending on if he gets passes off before a sack. You will also find the AI cannot seem to score in the redzone except on runs.


Now set the game with Pass coverage to 0 and you will see the CPU QB taking shots downfield and taking less sacks (in testing about 4 sacks less out of 40 snaps). The AI will actually score passing touchdowns. However, it will not look as authentic.


Conclusion: You can't win it either looks better but the stats are not as realistic or it looks worse but can get slightly better stats. I prefer seeing Payton Manning throw for 300 yards with several great deep balls and make TD completions. I prefer to have default pass coverage against myself and have the player setting to a low value (at even 30 I rarely see good down field passing by the CPU on AllPro). I then set QB ACC to a very low value and increase WR drops so CPU completion percentage is accurate. Nothing is perfect just arrange it to whatever makes you happy.


Now if EA will work harder on the sack issue it will be a fairly decent game.
You are correct and spot on, great way to "word" this.... Higher Pass Coverage the longer the DB stays with the WR and Higher Reaction the faster the DB breaks on the ball after the QB releases it. I have no DOUBT these two sliders are not reversed.
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Old 10-13-2014, 08:47 AM   #72
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Re: Reaction Time & Pass Cover Focus Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oraeon1224
I have tested these fairly well:


Pass coverage: The lower the setting the more the likely the defender will blow their coverage and leave the WR open. This appears to provide a boost to the WR route running when it is calculated against the CB Man or zone coverage rating (very obvious with man coverage in testing). If set high the defenders stay closer to the WR and the game looks more like the NFL.


Pass reaction: There is a visible closure difference between players and the ball while it is in the air...maybe. While I could see a decrease in sacks with Pass coverage lower (open recievers) I couldn't really tell a difference with this one. Subjectively lower appears to increase closer but not route coverage. However, I am not convinced I am right. EA really needs to clarify what sliders actually do.


What does this mean:
Ideally high pass coverage and low pass reaction will give you an NFL Sunday game...not really. If you watch the NFL carefully you will see numerous blown coverages. The game actually looks fairly good at default setting. Unfortunately that doesn't mean the game plays well.


Try setting the game with Pass coverage to 100. You will see the CPU QB having an increased number of sacks or short dumpoff plays. You will not see any big plays downfield. The completion percentage may or may not change depending on if he gets passes off before a sack. You will also find the AI cannot seem to score in the redzone except on runs.


Now set the game with Pass coverage to 0 and you will see the CPU QB taking shots downfield and taking less sacks (in testing about 4 sacks less out of 40 snaps). The AI will actually score passing touchdowns. However, it will not look as authentic.


Conclusion: You can't win it either looks better but the stats are not as realistic or it looks worse but can get slightly better stats. I prefer seeing Payton Manning throw for 300 yards with several great deep balls and make TD completions. I prefer to have default pass coverage against myself and have the player setting to a low value (at even 30 I rarely see good down field passing by the CPU on AllPro). I then set QB ACC to a very low value and increase WR drops so CPU completion percentage is accurate. Nothing is perfect just arrange it to whatever makes you happy.


Now if EA will work harder on the sack issue it will be a fairly decent game.
Nice write up.

So I assume you are rolling with something like:

CPU/Human
Pass coverage 50/20
QB ACC 10/10
WR Catch 35/35
Pass react ??/??

Close? What do you set Pass React to?

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