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An epiphany about penalty sliders

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Old 11-09-2014, 01:52 AM   #25
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Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

So I just played 2 games with all penalties at 99, then at 1 and what a difference.

At 99 there were a ton of facemasks but the CPU posed a good challenge and I even got pretty decent stats. At 1 the game totally favored me and the CPU ended up with about 50 yards total.

I'm going to try all at 50, then all at 75 and see what difference that makes.

FYI, I'm not changing any sliders. Also, the game played 100x better with penalties at 99 than at 1.

Just a little info in-case someone was interested.
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Old 11-09-2014, 02:54 AM   #26
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Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazzen
I think myself and many others have been thinking of penalty sliders backwards for a while now. You can't use RL logic, you have to use EA programming logic when thinking about penalty sliders.

Raising/lower a penalty slider does not increase/decrease the referee's chance of calling the penalty. In the real NFL, defensive holding becomes a focus and now referees begin calling plays that weren't defensive holding last year but this year they are more sensitive to it and call it more often.

That is NOT how things work in Madden.

Increasing/decreasing a penalty slider does NOT increase/decrease the CPU referee's sensitivity to or likelihood of calling a penalty.

Increasing a penalty slider increases the chance that the animation/action that may generate a penalty will occur.

Offsides - causes the D line to "jump" a lot more often if on a higher setting. Causes the D line to get off the ball a lot faster.

False Start - causes the O line to "jump" a lot more often if on a higher setting. Causes the O line to get off the ball a lot faster.

Holding - causes the O-line to hold their blocks longer the higher the setting.

Face Mask - causes more violent hits and face mask tackles to occur the higher the setting.

Defensive Pass Interference - the higher the setting the more aggressive the defender will play the receiver. I could see it also making defenders jump routes more often.

Offensive Pass Interference - the higher the setting the more aggressive the receiver will play the ball.

KR/PR Interference - this is an odd one but I really believe this causes defenders to rally to the ball faster and you'll see more gang tackles.

Clipping - higher setting should result in better blocking for returns and in the run game too I imagine.

Intentional Grounding - this one is especially interesting because many people think you should set this lower so the CPU gets rid of the ball to avoid sacks. I actually think it may be the opposite. At a higher setting the CPU is more likely the throw the ball away which would possibly generate a grounding penalty.

Roughing the passer - a higher setting will cause blitzers to go after the QB more aggressively, likely resulting in more sacks.

Roughing the kicker - at a higher setting you see defenders get through the line and play more aggressive when trying to block kicks. At 100 I've come very close to having kicks blocked. Still haven't seen this called or had one blocked yet though but I'm sure it'll eventually happen.


http://www.operationsports.com/forum...on-theory.html


Not quite word for word but pretty damn close, haha. Needless to say I agree with almost everything you said. Lol.
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Old 11-09-2014, 03:30 AM   #27
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Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

This...none of this is exactly new information...
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Old 11-10-2014, 02:33 PM   #28
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Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

Offsides: Higher = aggressive burst at snap
False Start: Higher = aggressive burst at snap
Holding: Higher = extended block time
Facemask: Lower = conservative tackles
D.P.I.: Higher = less aggressive v. pass
O.P.I.: Higher = less aggressive route run & fight for ball
KR/PR: Lower = increased returns; pursuit lanes maintained; DB's pursuit conservative.
Clipping: Lower = better down field blocking (33) seems to be sweet spot.
I.Grounding: Lower = throw ball to someone/move in pocket/scramble
RTP: Lower = conservative pass rush by DL's
RTK: Lower = conservative pursuit by LB's


These are the definitions I have for penalty sliders at this point - my area of uncertainty would be with the DPI, OPI & RTP slider effects.

Last edited by 4thQtrStre5S; 11-10-2014 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 11-11-2014, 12:56 AM   #29
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Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingV2k3
@trey31:

Do you have any links for any / all exhaustive detail on exactly how this test was run and this result arrived at?

If it's not in that thread, there are 2 others I was active in that were Madden 12 threads about improving Madden 12 gameplay.

If you can't find it in those, I have it somewhere on a spreadsheet. kcsam did some testing, then I retroactively tested several Madden games. All tests were done with everything at 50 except the one setting being tested. I stop watched CPU QBs and recorded the amount of time they held the ball, if they were sacked, by whom if so, and if they threw a pass, or threw the ball away (never happened).

I had recorded well over 1000 tests at one point into an excel sheet, mostly in relation to stuff about O and D line play, like the gross differences in sacks given up by left vs right tackles and sacks by RDEs vs LDEs (if you haven't noticed that issue, don't start looking for it...). If you're interested I can try to dig up the excel sheet and post it if I can find it. PM me if you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommycoa
Lots of sets have it 80. QB seems to have the right mindset. They throw the ball away and move well in the pocket.

They must have changed something with the penalty sliders between 12 and 15 if that is the case. Because on 12 the highest and lowest Intentional Grounding settings both produced a consistent amount of CPU throw away animations, none.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Mike
This...none of this is exactly new information...

I remember reading about this back on either 05 or 06. Mostly the same stuff. Didn't test anything myself til I was playing 12.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S
RTP: Lower = conservative pass rush by DL's
RTK: Lower = conservative pursuit by LB's

These are the definitions I have for penalty sliders at this point - my area of uncertainty would be with the DPI, OPI & RTP slider effects.

Roughing settings might be flipped. I don't recall for sure. I didn't test and record results for those. I can't remember who did, but someone had info on it being lower roughing setting = higher defensive aggression. The logic being that defenders are less concerned about being called for penalties, thus play more aggressively; however the animation for roughing should be more frequent at higher settings according to the Madden Penalty Theory, thus more aggressive at higher settings, but I can't say for sure.

Defensive / Offensive Pass Interference needs to be set at 1 for sure though. I tested that and the difference is plainly obvious at 1 vs 100. Which also should go against Madden Penalty Theory, since aggressive interference animations should be more frequent at higher settings. But in my experience testing, they were not; instead they are blatantly timid at higher settings, seeming to actively avoid confrontation and penalties. Really easy to test though. Hit practice mode and throw the same route to the same guy from the same play 10 times in a row at 100, then change it to 1 and repeat. Highly doubt you'll need to do it more than 10 times to see the difference.
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Old 11-11-2014, 07:53 AM   #30
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Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

Great stuff trey31, thanks for the detailed account of how the test was run...

This current sack issue, that's tied to pocket pressence really didn't start to rear it's ugly head to the current degree until M25 and NCAA14...it then got even worse for M15...

Madden is a "code pile", so although nothing ever really disappers entirely, different aspects take on different levels of "weight" in gameplay...

I started using the IG @ 80 with M25 amd NCAA 14 and continued with it this year...

I wonder if the reason I've been drawn to that setting recently (as have others) has to do with something that's slightly changed since the test was done for M12...

Hard to say, but ALL detailed info is GREAT info, so thanks!
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Old 11-11-2014, 10:07 PM   #31
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Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by trey31
If it's not in that thread, there are 2 others I was active in that were Madden 12 threads about improving Madden 12 gameplay.



If you can't find it in those, I have it somewhere on a spreadsheet. kcsam did some testing, then I retroactively tested several Madden games. All tests were done with everything at 50 except the one setting being tested. I stop watched CPU QBs and recorded the amount of time they held the ball, if they were sacked, by whom if so, and if they threw a pass, or threw the ball away (never happened).



I had recorded well over 1000 tests at one point into an excel sheet, mostly in relation to stuff about O and D line play, like the gross differences in sacks given up by left vs right tackles and sacks by RDEs vs LDEs (if you haven't noticed that issue, don't start looking for it...). If you're interested I can try to dig up the excel sheet and post it if I can find it. PM me if you want.









They must have changed something with the penalty sliders between 12 and 15 if that is the case. Because on 12 the highest and lowest Intentional Grounding settings both produced a consistent amount of CPU throw away animations, none.









I remember reading about this back on either 05 or 06. Mostly the same stuff. Didn't test anything myself til I was playing 12.









Roughing settings might be flipped. I don't recall for sure. I didn't test and record results for those. I can't remember who did, but someone had info on it being lower roughing setting = higher defensive aggression. The logic being that defenders are less concerned about being called for penalties, thus play more aggressively; however the animation for roughing should be more frequent at higher settings according to the Madden Penalty Theory, thus more aggressive at higher settings, but I can't say for sure.



Defensive / Offensive Pass Interference needs to be set at 1 for sure though. I tested that and the difference is plainly obvious at 1 vs 100. Which also should go against Madden Penalty Theory, since aggressive interference animations should be more frequent at higher settings. But in my experience testing, they were not; instead they are blatantly timid at higher settings, seeming to actively avoid confrontation and penalties. Really easy to test though. Hit practice mode and throw the same route to the same guy from the same play 10 times in a row at 100, then change it to 1 and repeat. Highly doubt you'll need to do it more than 10 times to see the difference.

Just to clarity..u feel best play for DB and WR is for DPI &OPI at 1 for both?


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Old 11-12-2014, 12:55 AM   #32
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Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

I am thinking that with OPI & DPI the sliders are reversed in that for OPI, the higher you go the more aggressive the receiver, but for DPI the lower you go the more aggressive the DB's....

am i just slider crazy and need a break?
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