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An epiphany about penalty sliders

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Old 11-13-2014, 12:47 PM   #41
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Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

It is true that each slider set needs it's own set of penalties. For example, one slider set might have Offsides at 99 and False Start at 50, which would require IG to be around 80. Another set might have this reversed so that would require IG to be 0. Reason is not in the penalty slider itself, as in IG, but more so in the way the numbers add up.

I'd like you to venture on the beaten path and put DPI/OPI at 1/11 respectively but change nothing else from whatever set you're using. Play a game in CFM and quit before 4th qtr is over. Afterwards change it to 10/10. Play the same game. You will notice a dramatic change in the overall gameplay and stats.

If you put WR Catch at 0 for the CPU, theoretically this will make every WR drop passes (not true for USER). This is not true, you can use DPI/OPI/IG to offset the WR Catch. These can also be used to offset QBA.

Actually you can put all USER sliders at 0, leave CPU at 50 and it won't make a bit of difference. You can use the penalties to create your gameplay.

Recently I tested Pro with all sliders at 50/50 and only adjusted the penalties. I was able to get true QB comp%, true sacks and so on. I also personally feel that animations are much better on Pro, the only problem is making the game challenging. After all the testing I have done on Madden 15, reverse engineering the intended difficulties and so on. I think the programmers intention was to make Pro the default with all sliders at 50/50 which makes the gameplay based on the players rating instead of AI intervention due to slider manipulation. Actually you can get the same result from All-Pro by putting all sliders at 25/25, the animations just aren't as good.

One of the main reasons we keep running into weird issues is because we are manipulating the game away from it's defaults values. Sliders sets and penalties with numbers like 33/11/65/40/20 but they all add up to a non-default number. From a programmers perspective, this makes sense as it's much easier and much more stable to "hard-code" a set of default values than it is to make a program compensate for any set of values, especially when it's between 0 and 100 with multiple parts (sliders) that affect one another.

EDIT: This also applies to the other default values for each difficulty. Sorry, meant to explain that.

My suggestion for any future slider gurus, at least for Madden 15, is to adjust the sliders with the default values in mind, this means 50 x the amount of options. For penalties, this would be 11 options so the default value is 550. For sliders; and this part is only a theory based on my experience as a developer, each section is broken off into parts, such as QBA/PB/WRC, so each section needs to add up to its own default value which would make all the sliders equal the total default value. Hope this helps someone, man I should've made this into a post of it's own lol.

How about that for a response

EDIT: BTW, the sweet spot for OPI/DPI is 10/10 or 90/90, whichever you prefer based on your other penalty settings.


Last edited by whosnext00; 11-13-2014 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 11-13-2014, 12:51 PM   #42
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Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

Based on what you said, it sounds like Pro might be the best level for Coach Mode only players?
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Old 11-13-2014, 01:05 PM   #43
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Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by capa
Based on what you said, it sounds like Pro might be the best level for Coach Mode only players?
Yes, I would agree with that. Non-coach mode players won't find the challenge they're looking for on Pro, maybe if you put the sliders at 0 for USER and 100 for CPU but I doubt it. Even then, that defeats the purpose of using the game organically instead of introducing extra AI interference.

BUMP on my previous post - EDITED
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Old 11-13-2014, 01:44 PM   #44
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Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by whosnext00
It is true that each slider set needs it's own set of penalties. For example, one slider set might have Offsides at 99 and False Start at 50, which would require IG to be around 80. Another set might have this reversed so that would require IG to be 0. Reason is not in the penalty slider itself, as in IG, but more so in the way the numbers add up.

I'd like you to venture on the beaten path and put DPI/OPI at 1/11 respectively but change nothing else from whatever set you're using. Play a game in CFM and quit before 4th qtr is over. Afterwards change it to 10/10. Play the same game. You will notice a dramatic change in the overall gameplay and stats.

If you put WR Catch at 0 for the CPU, theoretically this will make every WR drop passes (not true for USER). This is not true, you can use DPI/OPI/IG to offset the WR Catch. These can also be used to offset QBA.

Actually you can put all USER sliders at 0, leave CPU at 50 and it won't make a bit of difference. You can use the penalties to create your gameplay.

Recently I tested Pro with all sliders at 50/50 and only adjusted the penalties. I was able to get true QB comp%, true sacks and so on. I also personally feel that animations are much better on Pro, the only problem is making the game challenging. After all the testing I have done on Madden 15, reverse engineering the intended difficulties and so on. I think the programmers intention was to make Pro the default with all sliders at 50/50 which makes the gameplay based on the players rating instead of AI intervention due to slider manipulation. Actually you can get the same result from All-Pro by putting all sliders at 25/25, the animations just aren't as good.

One of the main reasons we keep running into weird issues is because we are manipulating the game away from it's defaults values. Sliders sets and penalties with numbers like 33/11/65/40/20 but they all add up to a non-default number. From a programmers perspective, this makes sense as it's much easier and much more stable to "hard-code" a set of default values than it is to make a program compensate for any set of values, especially when it's between 0 and 100 with multiple parts (sliders) that affect one another.

EDIT: This also applies to the other default values for each difficulty. Sorry, meant to explain that.

My suggestion for any future slider gurus, at least for Madden 15, is to adjust the sliders with the default values in mind, this means 50 x the amount of options. For penalties, this would be 11 options so the default value is 550. For sliders; and this part is only a theory based on my experience as a developer, each section is broken off into parts, such as QBA/PB/WRC, so each section needs to add up to its own default value which would make all the sliders equal the total default value. Hope this helps someone, man I should've made this into a post of it's own lol.

How about that for a response

EDIT: BTW, the sweet spot for OPI/DPI is 10/10 or 90/90, whichever you prefer based on your other penalty settings.
I definitely agree with the premise here. Very similar to previous Madden games in editing sliders to equal a total to make the game play as if in All-Madden, or All-Pro, etc...

Am curious, what are you seeing, game play-wise, between OPI/DPI at 10/10 compared to 90/90? For me these 2 slider levels are the toughest to dial in, so I figure I may as well start with one of these settings and work around them... Thank you advance for any details you can provide.

Last edited by 4thQtrStre5S; 11-13-2014 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 11-13-2014, 02:58 PM   #45
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Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S
I definitely agree with the premise here. Very similar to previous Madden games in editing sliders to equal a total to make the game play as if in All-Madden, or All-Pro, etc...

Am curious, what are you seeing, game play-wise, between OPI/DPI at 10/10 compared to 90/90? For me these 2 slider levels are the toughest to dial in, so I figure I may as well start with one of these settings and work around them... Thank you advance for any details you can provide.

I just started using 10/10 OPI/DPI and they "seem" to fight for the ball more..this is new for me..so like 5 games so far but I'm happy so far


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Old 11-13-2014, 03:03 PM   #46
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Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S
I definitely agree with the premise here. Very similar to previous Madden games in editing sliders to equal a total to make the game play as if in All-Madden, or All-Pro, etc...

Am curious, what are you seeing, game play-wise, between OPI/DPI at 10/10 compared to 90/90? For me these 2 slider levels are the toughest to dial in, so I figure I may as well start with one of these settings and work around them... Thank you advance for any details you can provide.
The main difference is YPA and primary targets. 90/90 has less separation so naturally the QB checks the ball down a lot which also results in a high comp% usually. 10/10 creates more separation and it's possible to have 400 yard passing games with good to elite QBs where the primary receivers are usually WR 1s and 2s. This will more often than not result in a high comp% as well. I have yet to figure out how to completely control comp% with poor and good QBs completing the appropriate amount. Either way though, the OPI/DPI is for separation so that you can get the ball down field. 5YPA is no good for QBs like Andrew Luck but 8-14 is and that's what you should get with 10/10. It's a matter of preference really as 10/10 will generally be higher scoring games than 90/90.

Also if you're interested, Offsides, False Start and Holding can control sacks and the running game. Put all at 99 and your running game will be strong but sacks will be aplenty, reduce FS and Holding and you'll have less sacks but the running game will be worse. So I assume you could just do 99/94/94 and up Run Blocking until it's where you want it.

EDIT: Even though DPI/OPI is for separation, IG will still control the QBs tendency to throw down field but at 90/90 you won't likely be able to throw over the defender so you'll get an INT.

Last edited by whosnext00; 11-13-2014 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 11-13-2014, 03:45 PM   #47
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Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

Following is what I am stating with...Seems KR/PR, RTK and RTP effect pursuit and thus effect run game too? anyway maybe someone will give these a try and see how they go...I am terrible at the sticks, but these settings seem to allow me to run well, but I still have OPI/DPI @ 50 as I am not sure how I wanna pass around the extra points to get to 10/10....I put Pass Blocking to "0" after watching a play where my LT went completely to the right side of the LOS with Pass Block at 25...smh

HUMAN/CPU

(Offense) (250)
QB Accuracy: 75/75
Pass Blocking: 0/0
WR Catching: 75/75

Run Blocking: 0/0
Fumbles: 100/100

(Defense) (200)
Reaction Time: 90/90
Interceptions: 10/10
Pass Coverage: 90/90

Tackling: 10/10

(Special Teams) (250)
FG Power: 55/55
FG Accuracy: 40/40
Punt Power: 50/50
Punt Accuracy: 55/55
Kickoff Power: 50/50

(Universal Effects)
Injury: 40
Fatigue: 60
Threshold: 50
Game Speed: Normal
Quarter Length: 15 minutes
Min. Play Clock: 18 seconds
Skill Level: All-Pro

(PENALTIES) (550)
Offsides: 60
False Start: 70
Holding: 80
Facemask: 30
D.P.I.: 50
O.P.I.: 50
KR/PR: 70
Clipping: 30
I.Grounding: 30
RTP: 50
RTK: 30

Last edited by 4thQtrStre5S; 11-13-2014 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 11-13-2014, 04:34 PM   #48
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Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by whosnext00
The main difference is YPA and primary targets. 90/90 has less separation so naturally the QB checks the ball down a lot which also results in a high comp% usually. 10/10 creates more separation and it's possible to have 400 yard passing games with good to elite QBs where the primary receivers are usually WR 1s and 2s. This will more often than not result in a high comp% as well. I have yet to figure out how to completely control comp% with poor and good QBs completing the appropriate amount. Either way though, the OPI/DPI is for separation so that you can get the ball down field. 5YPA is no good for QBs like Andrew Luck but 8-14 is and that's what you should get with 10/10. It's a matter of preference really as 10/10 will generally be higher scoring games than 90/90.

Also if you're interested, Offsides, False Start and Holding can control sacks and the running game. Put all at 99 and your running game will be strong but sacks will be aplenty, reduce FS and Holding and you'll have less sacks but the running game will be worse. So I assume you could just do 99/94/94 and up Run Blocking until it's where you want it.

EDIT: Even though DPI/OPI is for separation, IG will still control the QBs tendency to throw down field but at 90/90 you won't likely be able to throw over the defender so you'll get an INT.
I will finally be getting to do some testing tomorrow. So is the OP Idea #1 still the set your using? What are you suggesting the other penalties be set to along with the OPI and DPI at 10 or 90 (10 for a more wide open game and 90 for more of a defensive game)? Do either of these setting, 10 or 90 allow for the player ratings to show more than the other? All the games I played with Josh's set were pretty low scoring, defensive battles so I wouldn't mind seeing a little more offense. Thanks again, reading the post all week has me itching to try these out!
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