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Old 12-01-2014, 01:14 PM   #409
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Re: JoshC1977s M15 Set

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshC1977
Wow!! Just finished a tough game as the Jets versus the Colts (preseason as I wanted to see how the backups played). The Colts won 24-13 as they effectively shut down the Jets' inept offense all day.

I don't put too much value into the stats but the two Colts QBs completed an aggregate 63% of their passes. I did sack Hasselback three times but all three were coverage sacks and he has such crappy ratings/traits, that I wasn't surprised. BUT, given that he's a guy I usually sack half a dozen times a game on All Madden, that was very encouraging.

Going to scrutinize coverage a bit as it may be a little tight....but we will see if modifications are needed.

So far, I am VERY encouraged. Don't know if these will placate the more seasoned Madden players (I'm no stick jockey - but am more than competent and understand the game), but I think that we are so far heading in the right direction.

Keep the comments coming, I will play some more after work tomorrow.
Try low reaction time with high PCV. Defenders still have the ability to cover well, but are less "psychic". I was actually able to "throw people open" as the CB's who weren't looking didn't suddenly respond to my button press....

Lowering both the OPI/DPI but leaving the OPI slightly higher makes the receivers more aggressive for me as well. I have mine at 20 DPI/25 OPI, but people have been getting good results with the numbers in the teens. That coupled with the Reaction time/PCV tweak in your sliders and the WR's are actually attacking the ball down the field. OPI/DPI lowered actually make the WR/DB interactions livable IMO.
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Old 12-01-2014, 01:27 PM   #410
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Re: JoshC1977s M15 Set

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlito1171
Try low reaction time with high PCV. Defenders still have the ability to cover well, but are less "psychic". I was actually able to "throw people open" as the CB's who weren't looking didn't suddenly respond to my button press....

Lowering both the OPI/DPI but leaving the OPI slightly higher makes the receivers more aggressive for me as well. I have mine at 20 DPI/25 OPI, but people have been getting good results with the numbers in the teens. That coupled with the Reaction time/PCV tweak in your sliders and the WR's are actually attacking the ball down the field. OPI/DPI lowered actually make the WR/DB interactions livable IMO.
Great post but very different philosophy which I am not inclined to use. I will explain more when I am home this evening instead of responding from my cell phone.
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Old 12-01-2014, 02:52 PM   #411
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Re: JoshC1977s M15 Set

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Originally Posted by JoshC1977
Great post but very different philosophy which I am not inclined to use. I will explain more when I am home this evening instead of responding from my cell phone.
Cool.

I'm looking forward to reading your response. I'm curious because I have been enjoying your sliders for the duration of my CFM....
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Old 12-01-2014, 07:17 PM   #412
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Re: JoshC1977s M15 Set

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlito1171
Try low reaction time with high PCV. Defenders still have the ability to cover well, but are less "psychic". I was actually able to "throw people open" as the CB's who weren't looking didn't suddenly respond to my button press....

Lowering both the OPI/DPI but leaving the OPI slightly higher makes the receivers more aggressive for me as well. I have mine at 20 DPI/25 OPI, but people have been getting good results with the numbers in the teens. That coupled with the Reaction time/PCV tweak in your sliders and the WR's are actually attacking the ball down the field. OPI/DPI lowered actually make the WR/DB interactions livable IMO.
OK....I'm going to try to keep this brief if I can...

My goal is to get the following:
  • Realistic Reactions
  • Realistic Animations
  • Realistic Behavior
To do this, the penalty sliders, along with the gameplay sliders, are critical. I'd like to touch on a few here (based entirely on my observations):


Kick Return Interference: Simply put, the higher, the more quickly the CPU reacts. Set it too high, and their reaction times border on per-cognition. Set it too low, and they are slower to react. Sounds like up is the way to go, right? Careful, too high and defenders in particular over-react to everything on the field (leaving them unrealistically susceptible to mis-direction....it can also lead to some head-scratching moments in coverage where they over-react in zone coverage). I believe that default is too high here.

Tackle slider: Jack it up and they hit harder. Simple, right? Not so much. Imagine a stretch to the left where the defense is in straight man-to-man. Assume the LOLB has a direct path to the ball carrier if he takes a good angle. With the TAK slider high, the LB will take a path to the ball carrier nearly at the point where he receives the ball from the QB (an overly direct angle) and will often get caught up on the O-line. With the TAK slider too low, the LB will over-read and drift in space (to the point where I have actually seen them drift AWAY from the LB before closing on the sideline). Default is AGAIN too high as LBs far too often get caught up on the O-line. With a proper setting the LBs will read the play in their gap and then react by taking the proper angle to the ball carrier without getting caught up needlessly in traffic.

Pass Coverage: Very simple. The lower it is, the more the DB will follow the WR routes in coverage. Set it high, they will read the QBs eyes and attempt to bat down the ball (too high and they will literally stop in the middle of a route while in man-to-man....an issue I have seen at 30 with this set with KRI this low - with higher KRI settings, you can usually set this a bit higher).

DPI: How closely does the DB follow the receiver? High is tight and low is loose. This is relative to the OPI slider (which is VERY important to note) but is more aggressive in nature the higher you go.

OPI: My favorite slider on this game. Low settings will lead to more sure-handed catches and nearly flawless route running. That comes with the price that the WR will take the safest possible play to make the catch. They won't dive, they won't jump, they won't attack the ball. Set it too high and they get incredibly sloppy. My original set had this at 75 and I am more than likely going to drift back to this setting.

Pass reaction: This is the only one of those listed here that I still have some doubt on as it functions differently than the run defense slider on NCAA. But as near as I can tell, it essentially serves as a tendency slider. The higher it goes, the more they favor the pass (eschewing the run). The lower it goes, the opposite. I am keeping this at 50/50 for the time being. Once we have everything else where we like it, THEN this can serve as a personal adjustment slider (run too easy and pass too hard - lower the pass reaction - and vice versa). If anyone has additional thoughts on what this does and can give me a concrete example (either by a video or giving me a specific thing to look at), let me know.

To the question at hand....(remember....this is ALL based on making reactions realistic at a lower KRI slider setting - you start messing with that, many of these values change dramatically).

I have seen the best catch animations at OPI near 75 so that stays (I want the star receivers in this league to stand out). To do that and to keep things balanced, DPI goes up. As far as PCV goes, if it goes too high, CBs start drifting around like safeties trying to bat down everything in sight instead of doing what they are supposed to do (cover the receivers). If I have to watch one more animation of a CB stopping mid-route to turn around a bat a pass, I am going to puke

The approach you mention is quite similar to what I used on NCAA for a very long time (I used 20/19 OPI/DPI forever). There are definite advantages to low OPI/DPI, but on this game, I'd like to see more attempts at spectacular catches. As far as PCV goes, there is a bit of personal preference here..for the moment, I am going to keep it low.

So, things I want to look at thus far:
  • Possibly bumping up KRI a tad (I'm talking a value between 35 and 40 - so only a slight increase)
  • Increasing PCV a bit (probably to 25/25)
  • Lowering OPI back to 75 and DPI lower than that to loosen up things a bit and get fewer coverage sacks.
Once we get these optimized, we can look again at the fumble settings and tinkering with the user run block setting. That should leave the pass reaction slider which people can tweak to taste.
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Old 12-01-2014, 08:13 PM   #413
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Re: JoshC1977s M15 Set

My first time trying to post pics in this forum, so bear with me

This is with KRI at 38 on a toss play to Adrian Peterson (a five yard loss):

Watch the ROLB (Khalil Mack)....




And now, a couple of frames later, just after the ball has left Cassel's hands






The ball is barely out of Cassel's hands and he is already making a move towards the run play. I would expect this to not happen until the ball is almost to Peterson...not this soon in my opinion.

Needless to say, I think KRI at 38 is too high....

Any thoughts?
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Last edited by JoshC1977; 12-01-2014 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:35 PM   #414
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Re: JoshC1977s M15 Set

Honestly I think it's fine, I know if I was controlling him I would already be making that move at or possibly slightly before then so why shouldn't they be able to.

My biggest concern is making it somewhat of a challenge running the ball. It's not just that the D-Line isn't getting off the ball well, but they are also getting pushed back regularly. Lbs are filling gaps correctly as you say but they read it slightly to long and don't hit the gaps fast enough. This allows the runner to gain 2-3 easy yards, and then easily fall forward for more because the LBs have no momentum built up.

Just my opinion but I feel that should be worked on first and once that's tightened up it should be easier to fine tune the rest.
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:36 PM   #415
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Re: JoshC1977s M15 Set

Josh, the more testing I do with this game, the sicker I become. This game is garbage at its core. I've been testing the pass coverage sliders for the last hour. I honestly don't see where they do anything, or anything expected. Dude, I'm almost to the point of just throwing my hands up. When do we just say the Tiburon is a garbage developer that develops a garbage game? The players run around on the field, they tackle, they pass the ball, they look like they're doing what they're supposed to do, but when we break it down, they don't. We're slider testers, and because of that, we see everything. I kind of wish I would have never gotten into testing sliders. Madden 15, hands down, is garbage for the person that once a realistic game.
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:58 PM   #416
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Re: JoshC1977s M15 Set

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshC1977
OK....I'm going to try to keep this brief if I can...

My goal is to get the following:
  • Realistic Reactions
  • Realistic Animations
  • Realistic Behavior
To do this, the penalty sliders, along with the gameplay sliders, are critical. I'd like to touch on a few here (based entirely on my observations):


Kick Return Interference: Simply put, the higher, the more quickly the CPU reacts. Set it too high, and their reaction times border on per-cognition. Set it too low, and they are slower to react. Sounds like up is the way to go, right? Careful, too high and defenders in particular over-react to everything on the field (leaving them unrealistically susceptible to mis-direction....it can also lead to some head-scratching moments in coverage where they over-react in zone coverage). I believe that default is too high here.

Tackle slider: Jack it up and they hit harder. Simple, right? Not so much. Imagine a stretch to the left where the defense is in straight man-to-man. Assume the LOLB has a direct path to the ball carrier if he takes a good angle. With the TAK slider high, the LB will take a path to the ball carrier nearly at the point where he receives the ball from the QB (an overly direct angle) and will often get caught up on the O-line. With the TAK slider too low, the LB will over-read and drift in space (to the point where I have actually seen them drift AWAY from the LB before closing on the sideline). Default is AGAIN too high as LBs far too often get caught up on the O-line. With a proper setting the LBs will read the play in their gap and then react by taking the proper angle to the ball carrier without getting caught up needlessly in traffic.

Pass Coverage: Very simple. The lower it is, the more the DB will follow the WR routes in coverage. Set it high, they will read the QBs eyes and attempt to bat down the ball (too high and they will literally stop in the middle of a route while in man-to-man....an issue I have seen at 30 with this set with KRI this low - with higher KRI settings, you can usually set this a bit higher).

DPI: How closely does the DB follow the receiver? High is tight and low is loose. This is relative to the OPI slider (which is VERY important to note) but is more aggressive in nature the higher you go.

OPI: My favorite slider on this game. Low settings will lead to more sure-handed catches and nearly flawless route running. That comes with the price that the WR will take the safest possible play to make the catch. They won't dive, they won't jump, they won't attack the ball. Set it too high and they get incredibly sloppy. My original set had this at 75 and I am more than likely going to drift back to this setting.

Pass reaction: This is the only one of those listed here that I still have some doubt on as it functions differently than the run defense slider on NCAA. But as near as I can tell, it essentially serves as a tendency slider. The higher it goes, the more they favor the pass (eschewing the run). The lower it goes, the opposite. I am keeping this at 50/50 for the time being. Once we have everything else where we like it, THEN this can serve as a personal adjustment slider (run too easy and pass too hard - lower the pass reaction - and vice versa). If anyone has additional thoughts on what this does and can give me a concrete example (either by a video or giving me a specific thing to look at), let me know.

To the question at hand....(remember....this is ALL based on making reactions realistic at a lower KRI slider setting - you start messing with that, many of these values change dramatically).

I have seen the best catch animations at OPI near 75 so that stays (I want the star receivers in this league to stand out). To do that and to keep things balanced, DPI goes up. As far as PCV goes, if it goes too high, CBs start drifting around like safeties trying to bat down everything in sight instead of doing what they are supposed to do (cover the receivers). If I have to watch one more animation of a CB stopping mid-route to turn around a bat a pass, I am going to puke

The approach you mention is quite similar to what I used on NCAA for a very long time (I used 20/19 OPI/DPI forever). There are definite advantages to low OPI/DPI, but on this game, I'd like to see more attempts at spectacular catches. As far as PCV goes, there is a bit of personal preference here..for the moment, I am going to keep it low.

So, things I want to look at thus far:
  • Possibly bumping up KRI a tad (I'm talking a value between 35 and 40 - so only a slight increase)
  • Increasing PCV a bit (probably to 25/25)
  • Lowering OPI back to 75 and DPI lower than that to loosen up things a bit and get fewer coverage sacks.
Once we get these optimized, we can look again at the fumble settings and tinkering with the user run block setting. That should leave the pass reaction slider which people can tweak to taste.
Good read and good insight as to what you are trying to accomplish with your sliders.

I like the way my games are going at the moment so I'm going to stick with what I've been working on so far. I may toy with OPI/DPI to see if I get more spectacular catches, even though I do like the WR/DB interactions at 25/20. I do feel like I see the WR's attack the ball down the field, and are also more aware of staying in bounds while making a catch(unlike at a high OPI).
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